New memeber - Any tips to use the "Old School" administration better?

[Tommy Wall]

Thank you very much for welcoming me!

I find your site very informative and probably one of the best regarding these matters.

I am 53 year old Swedish man and live in Portugal. Unfortunately where I live there are not many options than the "old school" - injections every third week of 250mg Testoviron depot (so far haven't seen anything else in the pharmacies). Anyway I started out with it, but with problems like low testo levels hitting me at every third week. Then I decided to give Testogel 5mg (Androgel) 1% ( nothing stronger availble here) a try and it started off really well I got the testo level up to 712 but just after 1.5 month of this administration, the testo levels dropped down to 380 (E2 = 20).

Started today with Testim 5mg 1% (nothing strong available) and if it doesn't boost the testo levels up to at least 600 I'll go back to the "old school" injections again, including roller coaster effects etc. .. And maybe risking higher Hemoglobin / Hematocrit levels. Which are at the moment; 17.30 Hemoglobin g / dl, Hematocrit 0.49 U / L.

HCG is not even an option here where I live. I wish I could inject less quantity and more often than 250mg every third week. (Maybe I could cut 4-5 days off in order to prevent the testo levels to drop to much)

Lastly - What do you guys think of mucuna pruriens? It would be very interesting to read about that supplement on this site.

 

[Gene Devine]

Why don't you have a frank and open discussion with your Physician on why the "old school" protocols don't work and can cause more harm than good.

Teach him why weekly injections are best and why you need HCG more frequently.

There's enough information on this site and forums to do just that.

If your Doctor is open minded and realizes that what he/she is doing is wrong they may go to help you.

Nothing wrong in trying to educate your physician and sometimes it works!

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Tommy

Welcome to ExcelMale.com! I hear Portugal is great.

Do you apply 5, 7.5 or 10 grams per day of Testim? (those are the 3 dosage levels included in the package insert even in Europe)

Are you healthy enough to donate blood (and not be rejected)?

Do you have more blood tests to share?



Did your doctor use to give you the shots or did you do them yourself?

 

[Vettester Chris]

Tommy, welcome to EM!!

 

[Tommy Wall]

Thank you very much for your fast attention.
Before I started with TRT my doctor (an urologist) told me up front that he did not have much experience in this matter. Anyway I showed him some blood test that I had previously done. H. Luteinizing – 2,9 MIU/mL, Prolactin – 10,08 ng/mL, Testosterone total - 1,98ng/mL (198) and PSA - 0,39 ng/mL beside the normal tests ( lipids etc..)

I was put on three weeks injections interval of Testoviron depot 250mg and booked the next appointment only after 4 month. I even had to asked him to include Estradiol in the next blood test. Beside the normal blood test (that any doctor would ask for) only PSA, total Testosterone and Estradiol (even had to ask him to include that) were asked for. Hello! Result: 619 - TT, 57 pg/mL, 57 pg/mL - Estradiol and 0,5 ng/mL - PSA
This was done in June and my doctor only booked my next appointment for next January. So I got fed up and started having blood tests done by my own initiative at the local lab though lot more expensive without a doctor asking for them). So I have only been checking the total Testosterone, Estradiol and last time I decided to include Hemoglobin / Hematocrit levels. My testosterone levels peaks at 863 and drops down to 293 just before a new injection. Estradiol -186--76pmol/L.

I´ll guess I have to take this matter in my own hands unless I find an expert on TRT treatments. Or maybe I will offer a copy of the article I downloaded from your site by Dr John Crisler to my doc.

What is available in Portugal are Testoviron 250mg, Nebido 1000mg/4ml and in gels only 1% 5mg of Testogel and Testim. Basta!

Since I don´t have been having very good results on the Testogel (I just started with Tetstim to try) I´ll guess I have to increase the dose by dividing the second tube into half to come up 7,5mg or just go back to injections of 250mg administrated only every third week. What do you think of me asking the nurse to inject only 200mg instead of 250mg (just waste the remaining 50mg) every two weeks? I am not a body builder and for me it is enough to have levels around 600. By the way doctors here in Portugal do not inject that dirty job is for nurses. I can have my injections done at a local health care center or I don´t mind injecting myself. I could of coarse buy the right gear online even hcg and 100mg testosterone injectable, but I am a bit afraid of doing that unless I can trust the company. What do you think? Any suggestion?

I don´t know if I can donate blood I have to check. I have a 30 years old tattoo and I read that if you have such you are not allowed to give blood but I will check.[/COLOR]

The last but a important question. Why do I get such red face when on testo specially when the levels are high (purple red)? Any idea why so?

Thx!

Tommy

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Tommy

So, I am assuming that the Testoviron and Nebido come in an ampoule that you can not use more than once.

200 mg every two weeks may suffice if that is all you can do.

Please make sure that you get your hematocrit checked. It is a test included in the CBC panel, the cheapest panel in lab tests. Your red face may be due to just regular flushing or due to high hematocrit.

Buying hormones online is always a risky thing and you do not know what you are getting.

I am so sorry that you have to go through so much trouble to get proper TRT. We keep hearing about how great socialized medicine is, but everytime I hear Europeans complain about their lack of TRT options or good doctors, I do not take for granted our options even in an imperfect health care system in the US.

 

[Tommy Wall]

Hi Nelson,

Yes you are right about the poor options we have in Europe for TRT. Well I can only speak about Portugal. I´ll guess US is in the front line regarding TRT.

Yes Testoviron comes in an ampoule so there is no way to divide the doses. However I can buy one ampoule at the pharmacy for +/- 6 €uros without a doctor prescription. Meaning that if I chose to inject 100mg per week it would come up to 24 €uros per month or inject every two weeks 200mg. Just need to convince my doc. Also in order to increase the testo levels maybe I can apply 1 ½ tube of Testim and later check the levels.

Which of these options do you think is the best alternative? Any idea to consider Nebido?

Many thx!

Tommy

 

[Tommy Wall]

Hi again,
Only to add something to my last note. I think many men in Europe might have the same problem like me with the "old school" three week’s bullshit injections. Left with only two alternatives beside gels, like Testoviron depot 250mg ampoule or Nebido. (Well at least in Portugal).

So how to split the Testoviron depot 250mg for instance in three doses?
I think I figured it out, but I don´t know if this way is safe.
Stick one syringe draw +/- 80mg - cap it and do that two times more with a sterile needle. There you are with three preloaded syringes ready to be injected one per week.

Anyone has some experience doing this or other suggestions?

 

[Gene Devine]

Hi again,
Only to add something to my last note. I think many men in Europe might have the same problem like me with the "old school" three week’s bullshit injections. Left with only two alternatives beside gels, like Testoviron depot 250mg ampoule or Nebido. (Well at least in Portugal).

So how to split the Testoviron depot 250mg for instance in three doses?
I think I figured it out, but I don´t know if this way is safe.
Stick one syringe draw +/- 80mg - cap it and do that two times more with a sterile needle. There you are with three preloaded syringes ready to be injected one per week.

Anyone has some experience doing this or other suggestions?

Your solution above is perfectly fine and will work for you.