New Lab Results on Nandrolone plus T. Any suggestions?

[MG123]

I've attached my latest labs. My protocol is:

56 mg T Cyp eod
40 mg Nandrolone Decanoate eod
.15 mg Anastrozole eod
250 units hCG eod

I'm not sure why my testosterone is off the charts. Last time I had it tested total was in the 700s and free was around 26. The only thing that I changed other than adding the nandrolone for an ankle injury, which should have no effect on the T test, is I changed from doing subq injections to shallow IM in my legs. I have been experiencing issues with ED lately that not even Cialis is doing much for. Any ideas? Also would appreciate if someone would let me know what they think of my thyroid numbers. Thanks.

 

[johndoesmith]

When were these taken relative to injection?

 

[Vince Carter]

Your E2 @ 16 with AI could be freeing up T to not aromatize

 

[MG123]

Blood was drawn hours before next injection.

 

[johndoesmith]

Your E2 @ 16 with AI could be freeing up T to not aromatize

You think so? From my understanding, the amount of testosterone aromatized to E2 is 1/3rd of a percent, which is negligible.

Plus it doesn't look like the LC/MS/MS test was used. If ECLIA was used, it is documented that nandrolone interferes with the testosterone assay and will report high.

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/pdf12/k120009.pdf
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/reviews/k093421.pdf

Blood was drawn hours before next injection.

I assume you've had tests before on this protocol, and never came in this high? That's what it sounds like from your OP. Plus I'm assuming you didn't use the LC/MS/MS because that usually doesn't report ">1500".

You should get new tests done but with LC/MS/MS testosterone tests done.

I did notice your E2 is kinda low, have you noticed any low E2 symptoms? I imagine the nandrolone could block the joint pain from low E2 possibly.

How do you feel otherwise?

 

[MG123]

I feel moody and am having ED issues that don't even seem to be helped by tadalafil.

 

[johndoesmith]

I feel moody and am having ED issues that don't even seem to be helped by tadalafil.

You didn't fully answer all of my questions.

Do you have any low E2 symptoms that are exclusive to low e2, for example: joint pain, excessive urination, or anhedonia?

 

[Vince Carter]

You think so? From my understanding, the amount of testosterone aromatized to E2 is 1/3rd of a percent, which is negligible.

Plus it doesn't look like the LC/MS/MS test was used. If ECLIA was used, it is documented that nandrolone interferes with the testosterone assay and will report high.

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/pdf12/k120009.pdf
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/reviews/k093421.pdf



I assume you've had tests before on this protocol, and never came in this high? That's what it sounds like from your OP. Plus I'm assuming you didn't use the LC/MS/MS because that usually doesn't report ">1500".

You should get new tests done but with LC/MS/MS testosterone tests done.

I did notice your E2 is kinda low, have you noticed any low E2 symptoms? I imagine the nandrolone could block the joint pain from low E2 possibly.

How do you feel otherwise?

Ive got a fist full of labs to prove that that's not completely true.

 

[johndoesmith]

Ive got a fist full of labs to prove that that's not completely true.

Really? I said I wasn't positive on this so I hope I wasn't coming across as a smart ass haha.

Would you mind sharing? I'm curious.

I found some research indicating "0.2-0.4%" is converted to E2 in men. What's confusing is if that is 1/5th-2/5th of a percent, or 20%. Expression as a decimal is confusing because they then use "4.5%" in reference to another figure, which is significantly different than 1/5th of a percent or 20%.

 

[Vince]

I think your labs look good , except your estradiol is too low, which I'm sure you already know. Also your high testosterone, but with all your other numbers being so good, it may not be that big of a problem. Some do say too high of testosterone can cause problems with libido.

 

[Vettester Chris]

I've had FALSE positive testosterone serum readings with Nandrolone included in the therapy. With a SHBG of 17, your Free Test would be much higher than 35.8pg IF test serum was sitting exactly at 1500ng/dl, let alone greater > 1500!

How are your lipids?

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

I've attached my latest labs. My protocol is:

56 mg T Cyp eod
40 mg Nandrolone Decanoate eod
.15 mg Anastrozole eod
250 units hCG eod

I'm not sure why my testosterone is off the charts. Last time I had it tested total was in the 700s and free was around 26. The only thing that I changed other than adding the nandrolone for an ankle injury, which should have no effect on the T test, is I changed from doing subq injections to shallow IM in my legs. I have been experiencing issues with ED lately that not even Cialis is doing much for. Any ideas? Also would appreciate if someone would let me know what they think of my thyroid numbers. Thanks.

You're pinning the equivalent of 200mg of Test per week, and your TT is off the charts. Perhaps it's time to titrate down a little bit on that?

You could also ease off on the Anastrozole to BIW, vice EOD. It's just my opinion, but I think your E2 is a little low. This alone could very well be affecting your libido in a negative way.

 

[johndoesmith]

You're pinning the equivalent of 200mg of Test per week, and your TT is off the charts. Perhaps it's time to titrate down a little bit on that?

You could also ease off on the Anastrozole to BIW, vice EOD. It's just my opinion, but I think your E2 is a little low. This alone could very well be affecting your libido in a negative way.

He said he's usually at 700 trough, I think it's just the nandrolone causing a false high reading. I found some papers proving that it interferes with the assay

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

He said he's usually at 700 trough, I think it's just the nandrolone causing a false high reading. I found some papers proving that it interferes with the assay

Good to know. I have no experience with Nandrolone, but was wondering if it could have any effect on his TT level.

That's one hell of a jump from a 700 trough to over 1500!

 

[Nelson Vergel]

You are using about 200 mg mg per week of T plus 140 mg per week of nandrolone. Your numbers make sense.

You should lower your anastrozole to half of what you are using (heck, I would stop anastrozole). Hopefully this will improve your ED issues.

Your hematocrit is good. How long have you been on that combo?

What johndoesmith said is true about using LC/MC T tests for values over 1500 ng/dL. But the cross reactivity of the ECLIA T test with nandrolone is low as reported here:
http://bmcclinpathol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1472-6890-14-33

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Here are some good posts about nandrolone from the past:


Does anyone use Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) ? [Archive ...

www.excelmale.com/archive/index.php/t-3995.html

My doc offered my nandrolone and aid it would help me build muscle. I read about it and it looks like it causes erectile dysfunction. When I ...

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[/TD]

Does anyone use Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) ?

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?3995...Nandrolone...

My doc offered my nandrolone and aid it would help me build muscle. I read about it and it looks like it causes erectile dysfunction. When I ...

[TD="class: gsc-table-cell-thumbnail gsc-thumbnail"]

[/TD] [TD="class: gsc-table-cell-snippet-close"]

[/TD]

Nandrolone (Deca), How bad does someone have to be to get this ...

www.excelmale.com/archive/index.php/t-6259.html

If I could get Nandrolone in conjunction with my TRT and what I am taking for ester control, I would expect I could get the deficient arm and leg ...

[TD="class: gsc-table-cell-snippet-close"]

[/TD]

Anabolic/Androgenic Hormone Prescribing Indications

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?1387-Anabolic...

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HIV, nandrolone and oxandrolone [Archive] - ExcelMale.com

https://www.excelmale.com/archive/index.php/t-1547.html

HI, I'm Andrew. I plan to share and gain knowledge in this new chapter in my life. I read "built to survive" and am now well informed and more ...

[TD="class: gsc-table-cell-snippet-close"]

[/TD]

When to start nandrolone (Decadurabolin) when you have HIV ...

https://www.excelmale.com/archive/index.php/t-3279.html

My question is this...what symptoms does a hiv person need to present with to be prescribed nandrolone along with their testosterone?

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[/TD]

Nandrolone Undecanoate (Decadurabolin) and HIV Wasting ...

https://www.excelmale.com/archive/index.php/t-3653.html

This is a summary of all studies in the past that have researched the role of nandrolone in men and women living with HIV: ...

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[/TD]

Nandrolone for CRPS/RSD [Archive] - ExcelMale.com

https://www.excelmale.com/archive/index.php/t-6554.html

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[/TD]

Nandrolone - What it's done for me [Archive] - ExcelMale.com

www.excelmale.com/archive/index.php/t-5914.html

For anyone using nandrolone for tissue-damage issues, would you mind posting what clinic you're using? I'm currently on TRT through Defy.

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[/TD]

11 Month Old Nandrolone Prescription...Can I still fill it? [Archive ...

www.excelmale.com/archive/index.php/t-2882.html

Hello Everyone I'm new here...very nice board with great information. I have a legitimate script for nandrolone from last December I tried to fill it ...

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[/TD]

 

[tareload]

You are using about 200 mg mg per week of T plus 140 mg per week of nandrolone. Your numbers make sense.

You should lower your anastrozole to half of what you are using (heck, I would stop anastrozole). Hopefully this will improve your ED issues.

Your hematocrit is good. How long have you been on that combo?

What johndoesmith said is true about using LC/MC T tests for values over 1500 ng/dL. But the cross reactivity of the ECLIA T test with nandrolone is low as reported here:
Cross-reactivity of steroid hormone immunoassays: clinical significance and two-dimensional molecular similarity prediction

Another set of data here on what was reported as 100 mg/week of NPP plus exogenous estradiol:

Deca Only For HRT - Comprehensive Overview And Personal Blood Work

After trying a Deca only cycle for HRT for three months, I had an elaborate blood panel completed to assess my health markers. These are the results.

moreplatesmoredates.com

This is higher cross reactivity than what I saw which was more in line with the paper you posted above. Really depends on the ECLIA/CLIA machine being used. For example this lab reports strong interference with nandrolone:

https://jdos.nicholsinstitute.com/dos/sarasotamemorial/test/116816

Clinical Significance

1. The ADVIA Centaur® Testosterone II (TSTII) assay is for in vitro diagnostic use in the quantitative determination of total testosterone (bound and unbound) in human serum and plasma using the ADVIA Centaur, ADVIA Centaur XP, and ADVIA Centaur XPT systems. 2. Measurements of testosterone are used in the diagnosis and treatment of disorders involving the male sex hormones (androgens), including primary and secondary hypogonadism, delayed or precocious puberty, impotence in males and, in females, hirsutism (excessive hair) and virilization (masculinization) due to tumors, polycystic ovaries, and adrenogenital syndromes.

LC/MS to the rescue. Thanks Nelson.

 

[DixieWrecked]

nandrolone makes me feel like shit too. I cant handle that stuff at all