Need advice on AI use with TRT and HCG

[Lucky13]

It seems most clinics prescribe the standard 200mg test 250ui hcg and 1mg armidex.
from most of my research an friends on trt, they say they take the 200 mg test split biweekly an split their hcg bi weekly but don't take the AI unless they have symptoms -ex. itchy nipples emotions ect.
Would appreciate any advice possible new to trt ?

 

[CoastWatcher]

It seems most clinics prescribe the standard 200mg test 250ui hcg and 1mg armidex.
from most of my research an friends on trt, they say they take the 200 mg test split biweekly an split their hcg bi weekly but don't take the AI unless they have symptoms -ex. itchy nipples emotions ect.
Would appreciate any advice possible new to trt ?

Any doctor who hands out a protocol of 200mg of testosterone weekly, with 250iu of HCG and 1mg of anastrozole along with it, routinely is running a TRT-mill. Protocols are individually designed taking into account such factors as age, testosterone level at the beginning of therapy, SHBG level, and the presence/absence of other comorbidities.

The best doctors realize that frequent, smaller injections of testosteone produce excellent results, frequently achieving estradiol levels that are therapeutic, no AI is needed. A typical starting protocol is 50-60 mg of testosterone twice a week along with HCG. An AI is introduced only if subjective symptoms and confirmed lab work indicates it is necessary. Estradiol is an important hormone, not a waste product. Adjustments are not unusual - injections every other day, or (for some) daily, are fairly common. Each and every patient is different and that is particularly true in the field of hormone replacement.

 

[Country23030]

Any doctor who hands out a protocol of 200mg of testosterone weekly, with 250iu of HCG and 1mg of anastrozole along with it, routinely is running a TRT-mill.

Right on! Run...

 

[Vince]

I've been on TRT for over 3 years now and never used or needed an AI. Probably the most over-prescribed drug in TRT are AIs. Too many TRT doctors crash men's estradiol levels.

 

[Lucky13]

appreciate all the feedback... from my readings an asking around i see no harm an only benefit with the HCG.. but i think i should hold off on the AI an wait a few weeks months for bloodwork an see how i feel... agree?

 

[CoastWatcher]

appreciate all the feedback... from my readings an asking around i see no harm an only benefit with the HCG.. but i think i should hold off on the AI an wait a few weeks months for bloodwork an see how i feel... agree?

Would you like to post your pre-TRT labs? That will help us focus the conversation. Two hundred milligrams a week, sing or divided dose, is at the upper end of TRT protocols. It certainly raises many questions. For example, what is your SHBG? If high, very high, you may do well, but if low to mid-range, you run a significant risk of failing to meet your goals since your body may burn through your injection. Another question concerns estradiol - was it measured with the standard or sensitive test, and what was it?

 

[Vince]

appreciate all the feedback... from my readings an asking around i see no harm an only benefit with the HCG.. but i think i should hold off on the AI an wait a few weeks months for bloodwork an see how i feel... agree?

If it was me I would lower my weekly dose of testosterone and add in HCG. You can always adjust your protocol if you need higher testosterone levels.

 

[blitzen]

It seems most clinics prescribe the standard 200mg test 250ui hcg and 1mg armidex.from most of my research an friends on trt, they say they take the 200 mg test split biweekly an split their hcg bi weekly but don't take the AI unless they have symptoms -ex. itchy nipples emotions ect.
Would appreciate any advice possible new to trt ?

200mg is on the higher end. All depends on how low your T levels are etc. and how high your SHBG is ....
250iu HCG on the other hand sounds low > is that per week? Looks to me as if 250-500iu twice a week is more that normal prescribed range
1mg again sounds high as I'm on 0.5mg a week using 180mg Test > at 200mg you might need an AI but maybe not a 1mg pill (you could dissolve the pill and take less per dose)

BUT you really need to provide more details about you and the lab results (T, FT, E sensitive, SHGB, ....)

 

[Lucky13]

Never tested e yet ... here's what they tested ....

 

[Lucky13]

Sorry of double post did from phone

 

[Systemlord]

It's impossible to read that small print from a tiny screen on your phone onto my 27 inch high res monitor. It's like trying to read a postage stamp from 12 feet away.

 

[Vince]

Can you type it in it's impossible to read.

 

[Esq]

Never tested e yet ... here's what they tested ...

That is very hard to read. Looks like your free T is 11.7, which is lowish. I can’t read total T, but it looks like it’s indicated as “low” or below range.

You definitely do not want to start an AI without testing sensitive e2. Your SHBG level would be good to know too - could have an effect on dosing and injection frequency.

200mg/week test is too high a starting dose, in my opinion. Most knowledgeable docs seems to start people between 100mg to 150mg/week depending on lab results and then start making adjustments up or down 3 months in.

 

[Lucky13]

sorry didn't test E
but what i got tested,
LH 5.1
FSH 1.7
Free Test 11.7
Total test 233
prostate ag serum 0.5

 

[Systemlord]

sorry didn't test E
but what i got tested,
LH 5.1
FSH 1.7
Free Test 11.7
Total test 233
prostate ag serum 0.5

You didn't include ranges, it's difficult to know if your LH is midrange or not. No SHBG or E2 labs either, it's going to be difficult to nail down an effective protocol without it. How the heck did your doctor come up with this protocol with these labs? I'm willing bet your SHBG is on the low end with FT numbers high compared to TT. If that ends up being true that mickey mouse cookie cutter protocol doctor gave you is designed to fail. If you can even call him a doctor, more like an RN.

You are not in good hands.

 

[Lucky13]

sorry..
LH 5.1 range 1.7 -8.6
FSH 1.7 range 1.5-12.4
free test 11.7 range 8.7-25.1
total test 233 range 264-916
prostate specific ag serum 0.5 range 0-4.0

 

[Systemlord]

sorry..
LH 5.1 range 1.7 -8.6
FSH 1.7 range 1.5-12.4
free test 11.7 range 8.7-25.1
total test 233 range 264-916
prostate specific ag serum 0.5 range 0-4.0

Strange that LH is better than midrange and TT is low, are you on any medications? In any case you require more testing to find the cause of your low T, simply going on TRT without getting proper diagnosing may not fix your situation, often guys go on TRT with an underlying medical condition that can come back to bite you later. Something is hammering your T levels.

I feel more secure about my decision to go on TRT because I know why my T became low in the first place. Usually some guys go on TRT when their thyroid function is low and TRT requires optimal thyroid hormones to work and if not you could end up feeling worse since TRT attempts to restore metabolic rates and lagging thyroids can't match those demands therefore you end up feeling worse.

Your labs are wholly inadequate.

Start here --> https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...e-and-During-Testosterone-Replacement-Therapy

 

[CoastWatcher]

I'm afraid the lack of proper testing screams T-Mill. As has been discussed, one-size-fits-all protocols are senseless.

As as to the question of testing, here is an article explaining why SHBG testing is critical.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...rum-Levels-and-Urges-Testing-for-TRT-Patients

This explains why the sensitive estradiol test is the only accurate one for men to rely on.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-Sensitive-E2-Test-An-Unambiguous-Endorsement