Nandrolone (Deca) Base TRT Trial

[DAbears]

Deca Base Trial

Hello. I am 35 been on TRT for 5 years and for the most it’s all been positive. I recently switched over to Defy and mentioned the sides I have been having and learned to live with as they aren’t detrimental but annoying. The sides are oily face, acne, slight loss of penile sensitivity (takes a lot longer to orgasm now) and loss of morning wood. I do not have ED or any issues performing but for whatever reason no morning wood or random erections during the day and my flaccid hang is just small and kinda empty feeling. My first thought was estrogen is high or prolactin. My E2 hovers in the 50s (slightly raised) and test levels 800-900. I have tried experimenting with AI but didn’t feel any change and would prefer to stay off those. All other levels like prolactin, DHT etc are in range.

So with that defy recommend trying Deca as my base as I have chronic low back pain and perhaps would react better to lower test. Currently doing 200 Deca and 100 test ED with 250IU HCG on Mon Wed Fri. Bloat, acne,oily skin all has improved. Mood has improved, and gym performance and no “Deca dick”. However the lack of sensitivity and no morning wood remains the same. I remember Mike the PA I am with at Defy mentioned he is on Deca base too and if he starts getting sides like I describe he just skips his test shot for that day…so I tried that this week and boom morning wood was back and can feel sex a bit more!

Now my questions are why is this? How can I alter my protocol to keep this going? My thoughts were to lower my test dose down from 100 to maybe 70 or even 50mg a week. Basically just enough to keep my estrogen going and DHT. Or perhaps I ditch the test altogether and maybe just do HCG along Deca? Thoughts and experiences?

 

[Gman86]

Nice man, welcome to the nandrolone based club! lol. I’ve recently joined back in as of December 5th. I’m actually the person that got Mike started on it himself. About 4 years ago I wanted to try it, and Mike was up to let me give it a shot. After he saw that I did well on it, he tried it himself, and ended up liking it better than the test based protocol that he had been on, and has been on it ever since. He does 140 deca, 35 test, and like u said, if he has issues with morning wood, he skips his test dose and he said things usually return to where he likes them. He does daily subQ shots.

When I tried the nandrolone base for about 10 months, I used 200 deca the whole time, and used varying doses of test to see what worked best for me. I tried 40 test, 60 test, 80 test, and 100 test, all alongside 200 deca. I think my sweetspot was around 40-60 test per week, with the 200 deca. So ur test dose might just be too high. U could give deca only with some HCG a try, but my guess is that it won’t give u enough E2 to feel optimal. But u don’t lose anything by giving it a shot. Worst case scenario u don’t feel all that great, and then just add a low dose of test back in. If u do add test back in, I would start very low with it, and titrate up as needed. If ur doing HCG, maybe start with like 25-35mg/ week of test, and run that for 4-6 weeks. If u don’t feel optimal, add 10-20mg of test to that and run it for another 4-6 weeks, and repeat until u find ur sweetspot. Test and nandrolone tend to not mix the best together for some people, it’s a fickle relationship lol. So with a nandrolone base, u want to literally use the least amount of test possible, while obv feeling and functioning optimally

 

[Gman86]

How long have u been on the deca based protocol?

Has this protocol helped with ur back pain?

So ur mood overall is better on the nandrolone based protocol than a test based protocol u would say?

 

[Gman86]

oh and this might be somewhat helpful. Anytime I added 1000iu’s/ week of HCG to the deca based protocol, my E2 would go up around 10 points

and everytime I upped my test by 20mg per week, my E2 would always go up around 10 points. Here’s most of the labs I had done on the deca based protocol

4-2-20
Deca - 29 on syringe EOD (203mg/ week)
Test - 6 on syringe EOD (42mg/ week)
HCG - 150iu’s EOD (525iu’s/ week)

Ultrasensitive E2 - 24 (quest)



5-8-20
Deca - 29 on syringe EOD (203mg/ week)
Test - 9 on syringe EOD (63mg/ week)
NO HCG


Ultrasensitive E2 - 34 (Quest)







5-20-20 (Labcorp)
Deca - 29 on syringe EOD (203mg/ week)
Test - 9 on syringe EOD (63mg/ week)
1000iu’s HCG/ week (Empower)


SHBG 36.7 (16.5 - 55.9)





5-26-20
Deca - 29 on syringe EOD (203mg/ week)
Test - 9 on syringe EOD (63mg/ week)
1000iu’s HCG/ week (Empower)


Ultrasensitive E2 - 32 (Quest)




7-15-20
Deca - 29 on syringe EOD (203mg/ week)
Test - 9 on syringe EOD (63mg/ week)
1000iu’s SAFASI HCG/ week. 280iu EOD


Ultrasensitive E2 - 45







8-29-20
Deca - 29 on syringe EOD (203mg/ week)
Test - 12 on syringe EOD (84mg/ week)
No HCG

Total T - 780 (250-1100 ng/dL)

Free T - 167.7 (46.0-224.0)

SHBG - 39.5 (16.5-55.9)

E2 ultrasensitive - 46

Prolactin - 11.1 (4.0-15.2)

DHEA-S - 632 (138.5-475.2)

DHT - 68 (16-79)

T3 total - 116 (76-181)

T4 total - 4.9 (4.5-10.5)

Free T3 - 3.4 (2.3-4.2)

Free t4 - 0.9 (0.8-1.8)

RT3 - 14.2 (9.2-24.1) no

TSH - 0.794 (0.4-4.5)

Iron, Total - 155 (50-180)

Iron % saturation - 50% (15-60)

Iron Binding Capacity - 294 (250-425)

UIBC - 148 (111-343)

Ferritin - 49 (30-400)

CHOLESTEROL, TOTAL - 253

HDL CHOLESTEROL - 56 (>40)

TRIGLYCERIDES - 50 (<150)

LDL-CHOLESTEROL - 187

PSA, TOTAL 0.4 (<4.0)

Glucose - 98

HGB - 17.6 (13.2-17.1g/dl)

HCT - 53.9 (38.5-50.0%)

 

[DAbears]

Wow incredible information and exactly what I was looking for! I think for simplicity I’d like to just drop either the HCG or Test and start low and go up from there. Do you think HCG is more beneficial or test? I am only HCG for hopes of improved penile sensitivity, done having kids and don’t really care about ball size. I know the test is causing my sensitivity issue as I didn’t have it pre TRT and got temporary relief when I skipped the shot so I’m conflicted on which direction to go?

• Lower test to like 30mg a week and keep HCG
• Lower test and drop HCG
• Drop test and just run HCG

 

[DAbears]

How long have u been on the deca based protocol?

Has this protocol helped with ur back pain?

So ur mood overall is better on the nandrolone based protocol than a test based protocol u would say?

I have been on this protocol for 5months. My back pain has greatly improved as well as no more acne or bloat. And my mood is much more chill and have way more patience. I don’t feel as “on” all day long now like stimulated feeling all day like on test only.

 

[DAbears]

Also what kind of dosing schedule would you recommend? I do daily now but getting 30mg of test daily would be really hard to draw out. Should I move everything to like a MWF split? Or would this cause estrogen rises/fluctuations?

Deca- 70mg (3.5 on syringe) MWF (210mg week)
Test- 10mg MWF (30mg week)
HCG- 250IU MWF (750mg week)

 

[DixieWrecked]

That looks like a good protocol to me. Pretty high for the hcg though in my opinion but that's just my personal experience.

You had blood work on this protocol yet?

 

[camygod]

Nice man, welcome to the nandrolone based club! lol. I’ve recently joined back in as of December 5th. I’m actually the person that got Mike started on it himself. About 4 years ago I wanted to try it, and Mike was up to let me give it a shot. After he saw that I did well on it, he tried it himself, and ended up liking it better than the test based protocol that he had been on, and has been on it ever since. He does 140 deca, 35 test, and like u said, if he has issues with morning wood, he skips his test dose and he said things usually return to where he likes them. He does daily subQ shots.

When I tried the nandrolone base for about 10 months, I used 200 deca the whole time, and used varying doses of test to see what worked best for me. I tried 40 test, 60 test, 80 test, and 100 test, all alongside 200 deca. I think my sweetspot was around 40-60 test per week, with the 200 deca. So ur test dose might just be too high. U could give deca only with some HCG a try, but my guess is that it won’t give u enough E2 to feel optimal. But u don’t lose anything by giving it a shot. Worst case scenario u don’t feel all that great, and then just add a low dose of test back in. If u do add test back in, I would start very low with it, and titrate up as needed. If ur doing HCG, maybe start with like 25-35mg/ week of test, and run that for 4-6 weeks. If u don’t feel optimal, add 10-20mg of test to that and run it for another 4-6 weeks, and repeat until u find ur sweetspot. Test and nandrolone tend to not mix the best together for some people, it’s a fickle relationship lol. So with a nandrolone base, u want to literally use the least amount of test possible, while obv feeling and functioning optimally

You think it's ok to do with npp and test prop daily instead of Nandrolone Decanoate ?

 

[Gman86]

You think it's ok to do with npp and test prop daily instead of Nandrolone Decanoate ?

Absolutely. I can’t think of one reason those esters would be less effective using a nandrolone base than say deca and test cyp/ enanthate. I can only see upsides to using short esters, while implementing a nandrolone based HRT protocol. Such as the possibility of less suppression, higher degrees of fluctuations, which some guys feel better with, and the last benefit being that u can dial in quicker, due to seeing results after a change quicker with the shorter esters

 

[Gman86]

I have been on this protocol for 5months. My back pain has greatly improved as well as no more acne or bloat. And my mood is much more chill and have way more patience. I don’t feel as “on” all day long now like stimulated feeling all day like on test only.

that’s awesome to hear man! Ya I remember feeling very calm, cool and collected on the deca base. Was able to deal with things in my life very easily. And it was during probably the most stressful time in my life. So looking back, that protocol at that time was probably a godsend

I think I’m already starting to feel more chill and relaxed, and I only switched on the 5th. So ten days ago. Could just be in my head tho

 

[Gman86]

Also what kind of dosing schedule would you recommend? I do daily now but getting 30mg of test daily would be really hard to draw out. Should I move everything to like a MWF split? Or would this cause estrogen rises/fluctuations?

Deca- 70mg (3.5 on syringe) MWF (210mg week)
Test- 10mg MWF (30mg week)
HCG- 250IU MWF (750mg week)

Ya I agree with Dixiewrecked, that looks like a solid protocol to start off with, imo. I personally have always done EOD injections. I’ve tried ED, but have never noticed any benefits over EOD. U could probably lower the HCG a tiny bit. Seems like the majority of men don’t need a ton, if they’re strictly using it for backfilling downstream hormone/ avoiding testicular atrophy purposes. I’m personally using 350iu’s/ week. 100iu’s EOD. I can see an argument for backing ur dose down to somewhere in the 300-500iu range. But 750iu’s per week could be totally fine for u. Everyone is so different with how they react to things. But I do like ur deca and test dosages. 200 deca and 30 test is a pretty good place to start, imo

and u definitely don’t have to worry about hormone fluctuations causing u issues on an EOD or MWF protocol. U’d still be injecting more frequently than most guys. Plenty of guys do just fine on a twice a week injecting schedule, and plenty of guys also do well on a once per week injecting schedule. U’ll be just fine injecting EOD or MWF.

 

[HSLD]

I've been tempted to try such a protocol but have had negative experiences with nandrolone in the past. I've tried adding it to a test base, and every time I experience negative mental side effects.

Also, adding it to a test base seems to exacerbate my acne/folliculitis.

My E2 is generally high even when using a moderate, test only protocol. I've actually never had in range E2 the entire time I've been on TRT. Getting it that low requires me to adjust my test dose so low that there is no longer any benefit to being on TRT. Perhaps adding nandrolone to that high E2 environment is what causes my issues whenever I try it.

Curious as to whether or not trying the nandrolone base with a tiny dose of test would still produce the same negative side effects...

 

[Gman86]

I've been tempted to try such a protocol but have had negative experiences with nandrolone in the past. I've tried adding it to a test base, and every time I experience negative mental side effects.

Also, adding it to a test base seems to exacerbate my acne/folliculitis.

My E2 is generally high even when using a moderate, test only protocol. I've actually never had in range E2 the entire time I've been on TRT. Getting it that low requires me to adjust my test dose so low that there is no longer any benefit to being on TRT. Perhaps adding nandrolone to that high E2 environment is what causes my issues whenever I try it.

Curious as to whether or not trying the nandrolone base with a tiny dose of test would still produce the same negative side effects...

Ya that’s a tough decision. Literally no way to know for sure unless u try it out. I’ve yet to hear about anyone not feeling good on a nandrolone base with low dose test, if that helps.

And I can’t think of anyone that struggled with acne, using a nandrolone base. Usually the balance of less E2, and less DHT in the system, ends up curbing/ eliminating sides such as bloating/ water weight, oily skin, hair loss and/ or acne

u seem to be a moderate to high aromatizer, which could have something to do with the issues ur running into when adding nandrolone to a test base, like u mentioned. As far as I know, nandrolone increases the rate at which test aromatizes into E2, and it also sensitizes E2 and prolactin receptors, making the E2 and prolactin in a person’s system feel more potent. I would assume if ur E2 levels tend to be on the higher end, ur prolactin levels are probably not in an ideal range either, since estrogen is the main stimulator of prolactin production in the male body

good news is that a nandrolone based protocol is pretty much the perfect solution for guys that have high E2/ prolactin issues, and just can’t dial those hormones in, while concurrently dialing in their testosterone dose. U simply use nandrolone as ur main androgen source, and start off using a very small dose of test, and titrating up, if needed, until u find the dose that keeps metabolites like E2, prolactin and DHT in a range that makes u feel and function at ur best. U basically are increasing these metabolites, as needed, opposed to a test base where in order to avoid sides, u might have to attempt to lower these metabolites, which requires other meds, unless u lower ur test dose, which unfortunately doesn’t work for some guys. The beauty of needing to raise these metabolites, opposed to trying to lower them, is that it only requires u to increase ur test dose, no additional meds needed. So in theory, a nandrolone base is pretty much perfect for guys in ur exact situation. I would personally give it a shot, if I were u. If I were u, I would always wonder if I didn’t

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Ya I agree with Dixiewrecked, that looks like a solid protocol to start off with, imo. I personally have always done EOD injections. I’ve tried ED, but have never noticed any benefits over EOD. U could probably lower the HCG a tiny bit. Seems like the majority of men don’t need a ton, if they’re strictly using it for backfilling downstream hormone/ avoiding testicular atrophy purposes. I’m personally using 350iu’s/ week. 100iu’s EOD. I can see an argument for backing ur dose down to somewhere in the 300-500iu range. But 750iu’s per week could be totally fine for u. Everyone is so different with how they react to things. But I do like ur deca and test dosages. 200 deca and 30 test is a pretty good place to start, imo

and u definitely don’t have to worry about hormone fluctuations causing u issues on an EOD or MWF protocol. U’d still be injecting more frequently than most guys. Plenty of guys do just fine on a twice a week injecting schedule, and plenty of guys also do well on a once per week injecting schedule. U’ll be just fine injecting EOD or MWF.

My 2 cents... that nand dose sounds a bit high. you should feel joint relief and strength benefit at 100 or even less. You might inject a higher dose once to front-load if you are using the long ester, but it is a lot easier to judge benefits when you raise dosages rather than with lowering them, especially with a long ester. My experience is not based on using Nand as base, but either way, if you start too high and have a problem, then you don't know whether to raise or lower the dose.

 

[Gman86]

My 2 cents... that nand dose sounds a bit high. you should feel joint relief and strength benefit at 100 or even less. You might inject a higher dose once to front-load if you are using the long ester, but it is a lot easier to judge benefits when you raise dosages rather than with lowering them, especially with a long ester. My experience is not based on using Nand as base, but either way, if you start too high and have a problem, then you don't know whether to raise or lower the dose.

Very true. I would assume that guys using a nandrolone base could feel great using much lower doses than 200mg/ week as their base. I would assume the same base doses of testosterone would work equally as good using nandrolone as the base. For example, we usually see guys using around 80-150mg/ week of test per week, on average. So I would assume the same base doses of nandrolone should be considered, when trying a nandrolone based protocol

So maybe an ideal protocol to start off with, in regards to a nandrolone based protocol, could be around 80mg of nandrolone per week, and around 20mg of test per week, and titrate up both, as needed. Literally couldn’t agree more that it’s much easier to start as low as possible, and titrate up slowly, as needed, until u reach a sweetspot, opposed to starting to high, and not knowing whether u need to decrease or increase ur dose/ dosages, in order to feel optimal

 

[madman]

My 2 cents... that nand dose sounds a bit high. you should feel joint relief and strength benefit at 100 or even less. You might inject a higher dose once to front-load if you are using the long ester, but it is a lot easier to judge benefits when you raise dosages rather than with lowering them, especially with a long ester. My experience is not based on using Nand as base, but either way, if you start too high and have a problem, then you don't know whether to raise or lower the dose.

Most sensible piece of advice given here!

 

[madman]

Absolutely. I can’t think of one reason those esters would be less effective using a nandrolone base than say deca and test cyp/ enanthate. I can only see upsides to using short esters, while implementing a nandrolone based HRT protocol. Such as the possibility of less suppression, higher degrees of fluctuations, which some guys feel better with, and the last benefit being that u can dial in quicker, due to seeing results after a change quicker with the shorter esters

You clearly lack the understanding of the PKs let alone suppression of the hpta!

 

[LiveX2]

Deca- 70mg (3.5 on syringe) MWF (210mg week)
Test- 10mg MWF (30mg week)
HCG- 250IU MWF (750mg week)

I'm surprised with a relatively high dose of nandrolone base and low T dose, that you don't experience ED sides. I've not done a ton of research, but for the most part I see patients getting 1:1 Nandro:Test. You probably see some muscle gains with 210mg. Maybe the (low) 30mg test is balanced with the hCG dose? Is that possible?

 

[Gman86]

I'm surprised with a relatively high dose of nandrolone base and low T dose, that you don't experience ED sides. I've not done a ton of research, but for the most part I see patients getting 1:1 Nandro:Test. You probably see some muscle gains with 210mg. Maybe the (low) 30mg test is balanced with the hCG dose? Is that possible?

Ur thinking of when guys are using a test base, and then add nandrolone in. Thats a completely different thing than using a nandrolone base with low dose test.

the guys that ive seen use a nandrolone base report amazing erection quality. At least from the ones that I’ve talked to personally or read anecdotes from. I personally had the best erections of my life while using a nandrolone based protocol. They were like diamonds, and on demand when I needed them.