My optimal protocol is daily injections of Estrogen and just 24.5mg Test per week

[seb288]

I first started TRT with far too much for far too long 250mg of T Cyp/week. None of my symptoms (crippling fatigue, very low libido etc. improved) Browsing through the internet, I even tried Aromatase inhibitors incase high E conversion was preventing benefits, but that didn't work. When I finally measured after a few months, I was off the charts. So I kept reducing the dose and testing every 6 months or so until I reached 50mg. When I got a low IQ girlfriend, I found myself getting extremely annoyed at her all the time because she sabotaged everything with poor decisions (but I remained with her because with my low libido, she was the only person who could arouse me because she was willing to dominate me). My annoyances with her only resolved one year later once I lowered my dose to 5mg T Cyp per day (which is 35 mg of T Cyp per week which is 24.5mg of T per week). I think this keeps me in the normal range (will need to do labs, but I haven't because I feel best at this dose). However, lowering my dose so much and my libido was still shit (same as pre TRT and same as when I had very high T). So I tried adding Estrogen. It worked. My libido improved significantly. Still not as much as average male but I think that's because of my very low dopamine sensitivity (I have ADD and CFS). The TRT was a desperate attempt to somewhat treat the CFS/exercise intolerance but didn't work. Now, my best protocol so far to date after 8 years of TRT is 24.5mg T per week (in daily injections of 3.5mg) along with estradiol cypionate/valerate injections every day.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Some interesting AI answers to my question, "Does DHT or Estradiol raise dopamine levels more in the brain?"

Research shows that estradiol has a more pronounced effect on increasing dopamine activity compared to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in various brain regions.

1. Estradiol has been shown to increase dopamine turnover in the striatum and nucleus accumbens, boosting dopamine metabolite levels like DOPAC and homovanillic acid (HVA), suggesting enhanced dopamine metabolism without directly increasing dopamine concentrations (Di Paolo et al., 1985).

2. DHT, while capable of maintaining dopamine metabolism in castrated male rats, does not affect dopamine levels as significantly as estradiol. Studies show that DHT does not lead to a significant increase in tyrosine hydroxylase, the enzyme critical for dopamine synthesis, in contrast to estradiol which does increase this activity (Alderson & Baum, 1981).

3. Chronic estradiol treatment enhances dopamine receptor density in key regions such as the striatum and caudate nucleus, further influencing dopamine-related neurotransmission (Morissette et al., 1993).

In conclusion, estradiol appears to have a stronger impact on dopamine regulation than DHT, especially in areas related to reward and motor function..

 

[RotnGun]

I first started TRT with far too much for far too long 250mg of T Cyp/week. None of my symptoms (crippling fatigue, very low libido etc. improved) Browsing through the internet, I even tried Aromatase inhibitors incase high E conversion was preventing benefits, but that didn't work. When I finally measured after a few months, I was off the charts. So I kept reducing the dose and testing every 6 months or so until I reached 50mg. When I got a low IQ girlfriend, I found myself getting extremely annoyed at her all the time because she sabotaged everything with poor decisions (but I remained with her because with my low libido, she was the only person who could arouse me because she was willing to dominate me). My annoyances with her only resolved one year later once I lowered my dose to 5mg T Cyp per day (which is 35 mg of T Cyp per week which is 24.5mg of T per week). I think this keeps me in the normal range (will need to do labs, but I haven't because I feel best at this dose). However, lowering my dose so much and my libido was still shit (same as pre TRT and same as when I had very high T). So I tried adding Estrogen. It worked. My libido improved significantly. Still not as much as average male but I think that's because of my very low dopamine sensitivity (I have ADD and CFS). The TRT was a desperate attempt to somewhat treat the CFS/exercise intolerance but didn't work. Now, my best protocol so far to date after 8 years of TRT is 24.5mg T per week (in daily injections of 3.5mg) along with estradiol cypionate/valerate injections every day.

What is your estrogen valerate dose? Did you at one point crash your estrogen levels?

 

[seb288]

What is your estrogen valerate dose? Did you at one point crash your estrogen levels?

My exact protocol changes very frequently, as I'm still experimenting. The solution is 40mg/ml, and it varies but as of now I usually take 0.005ml into a syringe with 3 days worth of Test, and I use/re-use that syringe thrice (because my dose is so low, using a separate syringe everyday would cause very high margins of error). That is equivalent of 0.4mg/week.

In oral terms thats very little, but injection wise, that's quite a lot. If I'm a hyper responder to E the way I am to T, that'd put my E levels way more than any trans woman that takes orals and more than the levels of fertile women for half of their monthly cycle. Hopefully I'm not a hyper responder haha, will take a blood test at some point to find out.

Last week I took 0.2mg on a single day and that made me light headed (I assume from high blood pressure as its worse when I take extra Test), so I'm scaling back down. In fact, from fear of gyno and blood pressure, I'd like to scale down to 0.2mg/week but the volume of estradiol is so low it's already impossible to measure accurately. So take my purported E doses with a pinch of salt as it's inaccurate, even when measured with a 0.3ml syringe.

Back in the early days when I was taking 250mg-140mg of test, I was experimenting with AIs, so I suspect I must've crashed because I felt like shit with zero sensitivity even with 1/100 of aromasin (less than a milligram, just a spec). But that was many years ago.

 

[seb288]

Some interesting AI answers to my question, "Does DHT or Estradiol raise dopamine levels more in the brain?"

Research shows that estradiol has a more pronounced effect on increasing dopamine activity compared to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in various brain regions.

1. Estradiol has been shown to increase dopamine turnover in the striatum and nucleus accumbens, boosting dopamine metabolite levels like DOPAC and homovanillic acid (HVA), suggesting enhanced dopamine metabolism without directly increasing dopamine concentrations (Di Paolo et al., 1985).

2. DHT, while capable of maintaining dopamine metabolism in castrated male rats, does not affect dopamine levels as significantly as estradiol. Studies show that DHT does not lead to a significant increase in tyrosine hydroxylase, the enzyme critical for dopamine synthesis, in contrast to estradiol which does increase this activity (Alderson & Baum, 1981).

3. Chronic estradiol treatment enhances dopamine receptor density in key regions such as the striatum and caudate nucleus, further influencing dopamine-related neurotransmission (Morissette et al., 1993).

In conclusion, estradiol appears to have a stronger impact on dopamine regulation than DHT, especially in areas related to reward and motor function..

GPT is strange. It's wishy washy, but when I forced it to be quantitative and specific, it said:
The optimal estradiol (E2) levels for male libido can vary, but quantitative data suggests that having estradiol in the right range is crucial for sexual function, including libido and erectile function. Generally, research suggests that an optimal range is between 20-30 pg/mL.

Several studies have looked at the correlation between E2 and libido in men:

1. A 2013 study published in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism indicated that men with estradiol levels below 10-20 pg/mL were more likely to experience sexual dysfunction.
2. Another study found that men with E2 levels around 21-30 pg/mL showed better libido, sexual function, and erectile quality, with levels too low (below 20 pg/mL) or too high (above 40 pg/mL) being associated with worsened libido and sexual dysfunction.

Too low E2 can result in poor sexual performance, while too high E2 can result in mood issues and decreased libido. Therefore, maintaining a balanced range is essential for optimal sexual health.


However, I remember reading a study where 50 pg/mL meant higher libido than 40 pg/mL which was higher than 30 which was higher than 20 which was higher than 10, and that's also been consistent with my experience, but others here have reported otherwise.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

However, I remember reading a study where 50 pg/mL meant higher libido than 40 pg/mL which was higher than 30 which was higher than 20 which was higher than 10, and that's also been consistent with my experience, but others here have reported otherwise.

I think an important difference there is that the 20-30 pg/ml range was found to be optimal in natural men, while the higher E2 levels were associated with better libido in men on TRT. A natural with E2 over 40 PG/ml would have a very low testosterone level and very low T/E2 ratio due to negative HPTA feedback.

 

[Ryan474]

I'm intrigued by the idea of estrogen injections and am going to look into this. I have difficulty keeping estrogen high enough and feel better when it's high. Partly genetic, plus probably my low dose danazol to supress high shbg from t3 only thyroid replacement also affects estrogen.

I also have ADD (primarily inattentive), had chronic fatigue, was prescribed T as one small part of the fatigue treatment in my early 20s. Only feel decent libido energy mood cognition when I do 30mg T cyp twice weekly. Higher or lower is not great for me. The modest "bolus" of 30 i think helps convert some to estrogen, getting e2 sensitive to around 18 or 20. Otherwise my e2 when doing daily 9mg injections was too low (if I recall, around 12 to 15) and I didn't feel great.
Adding hcg was a huge help for wellbeing, mood, libido, energy, dopamine, cognition, but only at doses i could tolerate (350 Sunday, 180 weds and fri is what I'm doing now, with the 350 hurting sleep but seeming necessary to spike estrogen) . I suspect the fact hcg brought e2 up to 28 to 35 is part of it. In addition to spiking T every few days.

I'm also on Ritalin and diagnosed with narcolepsy type 2,which has overlap with Cfs and ADD-PI.

Side note: glutathione IM injections have been helpful as well. 200mg every other day. Lab tests show my levels low. Probably helps detoxify hormone metabolites or whatever, among other things.

Thx for sharing your experience with estrogen injections.

 

[Wolverineverywell]

I first started TRT with far too much for far too long 250mg of T Cyp/week. None of my symptoms (crippling fatigue, very low libido etc. improved) Browsing through the internet, I even tried Aromatase inhibitors incase high E conversion was preventing benefits, but that didn't work. When I finally measured after a few months, I was off the charts. So I kept reducing the dose and testing every 6 months or so until I reached 50mg. When I got a low IQ girlfriend, I found myself getting extremely annoyed at her all the time because she sabotaged everything with poor decisions (but I remained with her because with my low libido, she was the only person who could arouse me because she was willing to dominate me). My annoyances with her only resolved one year later once I lowered my dose to 5mg T Cyp per day (which is 35 mg of T Cyp per week which is 24.5mg of T per week). I think this keeps me in the normal range (will need to do labs, but I haven't because I feel best at this dose). However, lowering my dose so much and my libido was still shit (same as pre TRT and same as when I had very high T). So I tried adding Estrogen. It worked. My libido improved significantly. Still not as much as average male but I think that's because of my very low dopamine sensitivity (I have ADD and CFS). The TRT was a desperate attempt to somewhat treat the CFS/exercise intolerance but didn't work. Now, my best protocol so far to date after 8 years of TRT is 24.5mg T per week (in daily injections of 3.5mg) along with estradiol cypionate/valerate injections every day.

I felt like I had written it myself, but I haven’t started any therapy yet. The only one I was given (Clomiphene) failed. I’ve seen three doctors in my home country, and now live in Canada. I’m a temporary resident, registered in the national system but without a family doctor.

I know that in North America, doctors are more open to prescribing drug therapies even if testosterone isn’t below the threshold for my age. My last test, done a year ago, showed 5.6 ng/mL. After two months on Clomiphene (50 mg daily), my testosterone increased to 10, but it dropped back to 6 one month after finishing the therapy when my free testosterone was 95 pg/mL. The doctor told me that if it’s between 50 and 200, no therapy is needed. But I have all the symptoms.

Before this doctor, the other two had tested me for erectile dysfunction and another related test, blood, and it was clear that I had no physical issues. Everything works fine. The problem is a drop in libido. They recommended psychological therapy, which I underwent, but it didn’t help at all because the therapist only gave me information I could easily find on my own, and she didn’t understand my problem. I have no fears towards women or anything like that. On the contrary, I’m very confident.

I’m now 40 years old, and everything started five years ago, but it began slowly and has progressively worsened. Even though I can still have relationships, I only have the drive for the first round, even with women I find very attractive. After that, mentally, my libido drops to zero. The problem is that on a first date, they think I’m not interested because I don’t have the sexual drive, unlike them. So I’ve learned to act instinctively, relying on memories and behaving like I had that drive, which only kicks in when she initiates things. Over the last year, as my condition worsened, I’ve only received very cynical treatments.

A doctor prescribed me something related to Viagra, but that wasn’t my issue because I have no erectile problems.

Can you suggest how I can find a doctor who can adequately address this problem? What type of specialization should I look for? Andrologist, endocrinologist?

I haven’t made any moves yet because I’m discouraged.

I’ve always been in shape, leading a healthy lifestyle. Physical activity, excellent nutrition according to protocol, no deficiencies, no excess fat, and I regularly exercise. I’ve done swimming, and I still go to the gym. I’ve tried everything suggested as a natural solution.

I’d like to see if a doctor can help me resolve this.