May I be a hyper-responder? And expected timeline

[DKNera]

Hi EM Community,

First post. Have been an avid reader of the forums and appreciate the great support and resources here.

I’m three weeks into treatment and have been wondering if I could be a hyper-responder to HRT (and if that even exists). I read that experiences do vary, and changes/improvements could be expected anywhere from a few weeks to months.

I ask because starting from the night of the first day I injected, I practically jumped my wife (After going from feeling exhausted, unmotivated, low libido, not having sex for at least a few weeks, etc.).

Though I was hopeful, at the time I figured it was just a placebo effect perhaps from the eagerness that I was turning a new page for the better. Yet ever since--and specifically around 2 days after injection--I have been getting very aroused. In fact, there are nights I find it hard to sleep because I’m so aroused. Plus, I seem to maintain a mild fullness in my penis throughout the day, rather than the usual constant flaccidity.

On top of that, my mind wanders to sexual thoughts around women very often, sort of like back in high school when you’re 14 and you want to hump everything. Even got a mild, unintended “chub” when exercising later in the first week—not even from looking at women (or myself in the mirror)—from (perhaps) general increased blood flow(?).

I can’t determine yet if I’m gaining mass from my weight training, but I definitely notice a slight increase in strength, as I track my workouts.



Background info:

• I’m 33
  
• My pre-TRT labs were:
  
  • Total T: 325 ng/dL
    
  • Free T: 12 pg/mL
  • TSH: 13 uIU/mL
  • LH: 3.6 mIU/mL
  • Estradiol: 17 pg/mL
  • SHBG: 41 nmol/L

• Current protocol:
  
  • 40mg T-Cyp E3.5D
    
  • 500IU HCG E3.5D
  • 0.125mg anastrazole E3.5D
  • Desiccated thyroid: 60mg daily (slowly working up to max of 120mg)
    

Hope that didn’t sound like arrogant celebration.

I really just want to understand if hyper-responsiveness actually exists, and if this is what I’m experiencing early on, what can I expect moving forward in the coming weeks/months?



Anyone with similar experience?



Lmk if I could add more detail.



Thank you!

-DK

 

[Blackhawk]

At 3 weeks you are still in the "honeymoon" period. You are benifitting from both your own testicle's production of T and the injected T in combination. Once your testicles shut down, it is likely you will have some decrease in this elated libido.

But also, this is a primary reason many men do TRT... better libido and sexual performance. Enjoy it, and if it decreases more than desired after the honeymoon, consider readjusting dosage.

BTW, with your estradiol level at 17, taking an AI seems a bad idea. You are likely to crash your E2 which can end up being worse than the low T situation you started with. Do you know if the E2 test was sensitive LC/MS methodology? if it was, you got the right test. If not it is likely your actual Estradiol level is even lower. The Roche ECLIAtest is for women;s hormone levels and tends to read higher than actual level for men.

 

[Vince]

I experienced everything you have, it's the honeymoon effect when your body is still producing testosterone. It will subside some, hopefully you will still very feeling very good. When you get your Labs I hope you post them I'll be very interested in seeing them also I would like to see your thyroid panel. Right now I'm trying to get my thyroid levels dialed in, here's a thread I started on it.

can cytomel by itself be used to treat hypothyroidism

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...mel-by-itself-be-used-to-treat-hypothyroidism

 

[S1W]

What you are experiencing is not at all uncommon early on and is commonly referred to as the honeymoon phase. It will take a lot longer than 3 weeks to experience how you might really feel with your new protocol - most guys here say at least 6-8 weeks.

Additionally, most people need a few tweaks/adjustments to their protocol to find a good fit. And after each small adjustment, you need about 6-8 weeks to see how it is working. So add a few adjustments and a 6-8 week period for each one, and you're looking at several months to a year before you're stable and dialed in. I know that wasn't exactly what you asked about, but just a peek into what might lie ahead. Patience is absolutely key in TRT.

 

[DKNera]

At 3 weeks you are still in the "honeymoon" period. You are benifitting from both your own testicle's production of T and the injected T in combination. Once your testicles shut down, it is likely you will have some decrease in this elated libido.

But also, this is a primary reason many men do TRT... better libido and sexual performance. Enjoy it, and if it decreases more than desired after the honeymoon, consider readjusting dosage.

BTW, with your estradiol level at 17, taking an AI seems a bad idea. You are likely to crash your E2 which can end up being worse than the low T situation you started with. Do you know if the E2 test was sensitive LC/MS methodology? if it was, you got the right test. If not it is likely your actual Estradiol level is even lower. The Roche ECLIAtest is for women;s hormone levels and tends to read higher than actual level for men.

Thank you Blackhawk. Yes, the E2 test was the sensitive liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry test.

 

[DKNera]

Thanks for clarifying, S1W. That makes sense.

 

[Blackhawk]

You are welcome.

The general wisdom going around this forum is to wait and see how your E2 levels are after the first phase of 6-8 weeks, and only adjust based on actual symptoms. You have a lot of room for your E2 to increase without any problem in terms of a level of 17 with sensitive test.

Many of us have had E2 crash. Seriously, you don't want that to happen.

 

[DKNera]

I've read a variety of "ideal" E2 ranges, and of course it depends on one's ratio to T, but what is a healthy E2 target?

 

[DKNera]

Hi Vince, Thank you for sharing. Aside from my T result, when I saw how high my TSH was, it became clear at least in part why I was feeling fatigued. Plus, in spite of my diet and and exercise, I can't get rid of the fat around my belly.
I also want to point out something that may be of use to you. Iodine is often recommended for healthy thyroid function, but there are some precautions that should be taken. When I first found out I had signs of hypothyroidism (with a different doctor, several months prior to starting with Defy), I decided to address my problem with high dose iodine (16.75mg). After months of taking it, I got my blood work done again and my TSH was even higher (much higher). It could be due to iodine (or at least high doses) exacerbating hypothyroidism.
Check out this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3976240/
And this: http://www.naturalendocrinesolutions.com/articles/an-update-on-iodine-and-thyroid-health/

 

[Vince]

I do supplement with 325 micrograms of iodine, I also tried high-dose iodine. It's through my levels way out of whack.

 

[Alldayeveryday]

It's an awesome time my brother. I to went through this. Lasted 3 or 4 weeks. Loved it at first but it got a little out of hand. I had a girl at home depot smile at me and I instantly got an erection. Walking around the store with a baseball cap in front of me to try avoid detection. It was a little crazy. That did pass to a certain extent. I still have a very healthy libido after 6 months of trt. I agree with the others. Dont do arimidex until your 6 week bloods or if you notice your growing boobs. If you have the prescription great! Fill it just dont take it. At least you will have it on hand if you need it. To answer your question about "over responding"..... your not alone and your not over responding it's just doing exactly what its supposed to. Within 3 days I saw a massive difference. With 6 weeks I went from benching 225 for 3 reps to benching 225 for 15 reps. That's a massive jump! It feels good. Enjoy your good health and dont waste a moment.

 

[DKNera]

Hey Alldayeveryday, thank you for the insight. Good point about the arimidex.
So....which home depot was it? Asking for a friend...

 

[Gman86]

Curious to see if things continue to go well for you on such a low dose. Hopefully they do obviously. I've also been debating whether to implement a small dose of AI, so curious to see what you do in regards to that aspect of your protocol. Definitely keep us posted

 

[Blackhawk]

I've read a variety of "ideal" E2 ranges, and of course it depends on one's ratio to T, but what is a healthy E2 target?

You will get different answers from different doctors and from different individuals on TRT, There is an ongoing controversy whether if asymptomatic, guys should be given and AI at all, but it is clear that if you have symptoms, it'd be good to try to reduce E2 until symptoms decrease.

A couple guys on this forum have reported as high as 60 and they feel fine, but many have bloating, mood swings etc in the 30s. However, on the lower end, (referring to Nelson's article below) I think it is safe to say that E2 in the teens is flirting with bone loss. Personally I would not want it less than 20. I'm still trying to get mine into range where I feel good. Latest at 51, and I'm having some symptoms, but still Dr Saya wants to avoid starting anastrazole.

Here are a couple reference articles:

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?2309-Role-of-Estradiol-in-Men-and-Its-Management

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Normal_Estradiol_Levels_Men.aspx

And worthwhile video: https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?10539&p=70552#post70552

 

[DKNera]

Great. Thank you.
Do you think even 1/8thmg anastrozole (1/4mg in a week) could be too much?

 

[Vince]

Great. Thank you.
Do you think even 1/8thmg anastrozole (1/4mg in a week) could be too much?

I'm very thankful I've never had to use an AI in my years of trt. Luckily I started with a good doctor who did not push AIs.

 

[Blackhawk]

Great. Thank you.
Do you think even 1/8thmg anastrozole (1/4mg in a week) could be too much?

Personally yes I do. My E2 reached a low of 10, and while in the 10-12 range I was ready to die. No energy, horrible life outlook, mood swings, night sweats, everything hurt, I became more depressed and desperate for some kind of relief that I have ever been in my life. I was just about suicidal.

Search this forum on "estradiol crashed" or E2 crashed and see what you come up with.

And read these references man. It is really important to understand what's going on so you ca be fully informed making your own decisions, and not just depend on others' quick answers. This is your life and well being.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Personally yes I do. My E2 reached a low of 10, and while in the 10-12 range I was ready to die. No energy, horrible life outlook, mood swings, night sweats, everything hurt, I became more depressed and desperate for some kind of relief that I have ever been in my life. I was just about suicidal.

Search this forum on "estradiol crashed" or E2 crashed and see what you come up with.

And read these references man. It is really important to understand what's going on so you ca be fully informed making your own decisions, and not just depend on others' quick answers. This is your life and well being.

Good advice from Blackhawk. With an investment of time, you can become your own advocate. Actually, you HAVE to become your own advocate.

 

[DKNera]

Of course. Thank you for the advice

 

[CoastWatcher]

Of course. Thank you for the advice

Which doesn't mean you shouldn't ask questions! All the best!