Little advice for cessation of trt

[klepp0906]

I'm gonna be honest, I'm looking for a protocol to stop TRT without a doctors supervision in case it fails. I don't want to end up in a situation where I can't get back on etc.

I have an entire year until my next labs so nows the time. It's been a net loss for me. I may have gained a few extra pounds of lean mass I would not have otherwise, but the pro's pretty much end there. I ended up with a legitimate assault on my hairline. I went from completely comfortable with my hairline (even being told i look young for my age) to a severe norwood 3.

This led me to just recently start finasteride which broke my strong desire to be on less medications, not more and i doubt will regain even half of what 2.5 years untreated on trt has taken away anyhow.

Its given me bph which leaves me dribbling if i dont wring myself out and peeing every 5 minutes. (the only benefit to the prostate growth is orgasms are literally obnoxious now).

The libido is hit or miss, and my ED is worse than it was pre-trt, even on daily cialis.

In short, it was a mistake. The only concern I have is losing years of work physique wise when i stop. Unfortunately my body is practically my identity.

I can do without the backhair i never had, and the small nuts, and the minimal semen volume. The list goes on.

I feel like a walking pharmacy.

So, I doubt anyone is traveling these parts who has stopped (at least successfully) but perhaps im wrong. I'm hoping at least someone with experience in the area can make a suggestion on not only chances of success, but what i can expect physically and mentally from the fallout. Perhaps duration and most importantly the protocol itself.

I know its going to be anchored by hcg but dosing and additional ancillaries/serms are beyond me. clomid as well i presume?


For the record, I'm now 38, have been on since 36, and was misguided by our good ole friend the internet that this was gonna be my cure-all and that more testosterone would improve life regardless.

I didnt need it (had a test level of 495 which since it was on the lower end of the range that went from 300-1100 i figured was the source of my issues) now i realized i didnt need it at all and thats actually a solid test level.

I was only able to procure a script because I dieted super lean over like 6 months and that crashed my testosterone to under 200.

 

[trtthings]

Just google "PCT", post-cycle therapy. The same rules as for steroid users apply.

Many begin with high doses of HCG to get the testicles going again and then taper that down slowly. Sometimes they follow up with clomid, which basically makes your pituitary gland think there isn't enough estrogen so it starts making LH again and then you have your whole axis working. And then.. either tamoxifen or anastrozole is often used either in conjunction or after.

Wish you the best.

Edit: There are even some videos on youtube if that's your thing. I have no experience with this whatsoever so not much else to add. I have done clomid and can verify that that works.

 

[goolapsh]

I'm gonna be honest, I'm looking for a protocol to stop TRT without a doctors supervision in case it fails. I don't want to end up in a situation where I can't get back on etc.

I have an entire year until my next labs so nows the time. It's been a net loss for me. I may have gained a few extra pounds of lean mass I would not have otherwise, but the pro's pretty much end there. I ended up with a legitimate assault on my hairline. I went from completely comfortable with my hairline (even being told i look young for my age) to a severe norwood 3.

This led me to just recently start finasteride which broke my strong desire to be on less medications, not more and i doubt will regain even half of what 2.5 years untreated on trt has taken away anyhow.

Its given me bph which leaves me dribbling if i dont wring myself out and peeing every 5 minutes. (the only benefit to the prostate growth is orgasms are literally obnoxious now).

The libido is hit or miss, and my ED is worse than it was pre-trt, even on daily cialis.

In short, it was a mistake. The only concern I have is losing years of work physique wise when i stop. Unfortunately my body is practically my identity.

I can do without the backhair i never had, and the small nuts, and the minimal semen volume. The list goes on.

I feel like a walking pharmacy.

So, I doubt anyone is traveling these parts who has stopped (at least successfully) but perhaps im wrong. I'm hoping at least someone with experience in the area can make a suggestion on not only chances of success, but what i can expect physically and mentally from the fallout. Perhaps duration and most importantly the protocol itself.

I know its going to be anchored by hcg but dosing and additional ancillaries/serms are beyond me. clomid as well i presume?


For the record, I'm now 38, have been on since 36, and was misguided by our good ole friend the internet that this was gonna be my cure-all and that more testosterone would improve life regardless.

I didnt need it (had a test level of 495 which since it was on the lower end of the range that went from 300-1100 i figured was the source of my issues) now i realized i didnt need it at all and thats actually a solid test level.

I was only able to procure a script because I dieted super lean over like 6 months and that crashed my testosterone to under 200.

this sounds exactly like my story. Very similar. We are the same age and i also just stopped after 2 years. It’s going on 2 and half months and I’m starting to feel good. The first month was rough. I skipped the hcg and Went straight to clomid/Enclomiphene. I’m taking my time to ween off Enclomiphene as it does come with side effects (low libido/insomnia). I’m taking 12.5mgEOD. I will do this for one more month then go to every two days and so on.ill probably stop everything after month five or six

 

[Nelson Vergel]

How to Stop Testosterone or Anabolics Safely? What PCT Programs Work?

It Takes a While for Your Body to Start your Own Testosterone and Sperm Production Some men may want to stop testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) or anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) due to side effects or the wish to improve fertility. We know that stopping TRT or AAS suddenly can cause...

www.excelmale.com

pct protocol

www.excelmale.com

Article: PCT post Testosterone Therapy

PCT post TRT.... My first post on excel male...yippeee...I finished a 14 month episode of TRT two months past and would like advice on a good PCT. My experience on TRT began with nebido which did not resolve any of my health issues lacking libido,ED,fatigue,no gains at gym , lack of muscle...

www.excelmale.com

Post Cycle Therapy PCT Panel to Determine HPTA Restart Success

This panel is designed to measure the health and recovery of the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis (HPTA) after attempting to normalize it spontaneously or with the use of Post-Cycle Therapy (PCT) with hCG, clomiphene and/or tamoxifen. PCT is prescribed by some physicians for men who stop...

www.excelmale.com

 

[klepp0906]

Just google "PCT", post-cycle therapy. The same rules as for steroid users apply.

Many begin with high doses of HCG to get the testicles going again and then taper that down slowly. Sometimes they follow up with clomid, which basically makes your pituitary gland think there isn't enough estrogen so it starts making LH again and then you have your whole axis working. And then.. either tamoxifen or anastrozole is often used either in conjunction or after.

Wish you the best.

Edit: There are even some videos on youtube if that's your thing. I have no experience with this whatsoever so not much else to add. I have done clomid and can verify that that works.

yea i saw some youtube vids that based on title seemed to fit the bill, I guess i just put more stock in what people here potentially had/have to say. At the time i started loaning serious thought to this I was in the gym and also couldnt watch youtube vids

I assumed the general protocol would be the same, but dosages and duration would be different considering people usually run cycles from 8-16 weeks or so and this is many fold that.

this sounds exactly like my story. Very similar. We are the same age and i also just stopped after 2 years. It’s going on 2 and half months and I’m starting to feel good. The first month was rough. I skipped the hcg and Went straight to clomid/Enclomiphene. I’m taking my time to ween off Enclomiphene as it does come with side effects (low libido/insomnia). I’m taking 12.5mgEOD. I will do this for one more month then go to every two days and so on.ill probably stop everything after month five or six

care to elaborate a bit more? I'm interested in what was the major determining factor in forcing your hand? Have your nuts regained fullness by the point youre at? Did you train prior to cessation? If so, notice any dramatic changes in weight or strength? Still able to get motivated enough to make it to the gym while things fire back up? Also your reason for getting on and pre-trt numbers?

I hate to sound like an interrogator but best I can tell (and ive been looking on and off for experiences for quite some time) few exist. Either not many quit, or not many quit successfully. Perhaps they just disappear from the communities when they do. No idea but this is a huge call for me, half because I already gave up any chance at wearing my hair long again and half because ive spent years building a physique id hate to see disappear in months as my hormones are on the fritz at levels roughly around nil.

Appreciate your time and response either way

How to Stop Testosterone or Anabolics Safely? What PCT Programs Work?

It Takes a While for Your Body to Start your Own Testosterone and Sperm Production Some men may want to stop testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) or anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) due to side effects or the wish to improve fertility. We know that stopping TRT or AAS suddenly can cause...

www.excelmale.com

pct protocol

www.excelmale.com

Article: PCT post Testosterone Therapy

PCT post TRT.... My first post on excel male...yippeee...I finished a 14 month episode of TRT two months past and would like advice on a good PCT. My experience on TRT began with nebido which did not resolve any of my health issues lacking libido,ED,fatigue,no gains at gym , lack of muscle...

www.excelmale.com

Post Cycle Therapy PCT Panel to Determine HPTA Restart Success

This panel is designed to measure the health and recovery of the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis (HPTA) after attempting to normalize it spontaneously or with the use of Post-Cycle Therapy (PCT) with hCG, clomiphene and/or tamoxifen. PCT is prescribed by some physicians for men who stop...

www.excelmale.com

Appreciate the making me feel lazy! In all seriousness though, thank you for taking the time to lump all the resources in one place.

 

[CanadaJim]

I'm gonna be honest, I'm looking for a protocol to stop TRT without a doctors supervision in case it fails. I don't want to end up in a situation where I can't get back on etc.

I have an entire year until my next labs so nows the time. It's been a net loss for me. I may have gained a few extra pounds of lean mass I would not have otherwise, but the pro's pretty much end there. I ended up with a legitimate assault on my hairline. I went from completely comfortable with my hairline (even being told i look young for my age) to a severe norwood 3.

This led me to just recently start finasteride which broke my strong desire to be on less medications, not more and i doubt will regain even half of what 2.5 years untreated on trt has taken away anyhow.

Its given me bph which leaves me dribbling if i dont wring myself out and peeing every 5 minutes. (the only benefit to the prostate growth is orgasms are literally obnoxious now).

The libido is hit or miss, and my ED is worse than it was pre-trt, even on daily cialis.

In short, it was a mistake. The only concern I have is losing years of work physique wise when i stop. Unfortunately my body is practically my identity.

I can do without the backhair i never had, and the small nuts, and the minimal semen volume. The list goes on.

I feel like a walking pharmacy.

So, I doubt anyone is traveling these parts who has stopped (at least successfully) but perhaps im wrong. I'm hoping at least someone with experience in the area can make a suggestion on not only chances of success, but what i can expect physically and mentally from the fallout. Perhaps duration and most importantly the protocol itself.

I know its going to be anchored by hcg but dosing and additional ancillaries/serms are beyond me. clomid as well i presume?


For the record, I'm now 38, have been on since 36, and was misguided by our good ole friend the internet that this was gonna be my cure-all and that more testosterone would improve life regardless.

I didnt need it (had a test level of 495 which since it was on the lower end of the range that went from 300-1100 i figured was the source of my issues) now i realized i didnt need it at all and thats actually a solid test level.

I was only able to procure a script because I dieted super lean over like 6 months and that crashed my testosterone to under 200.

Hey man...I hear you. I started down this road last year. I had blood work done and my doc at the time said my test was in the normal range for my age (52...53 now) all be it in the low normal range. This made sense to me as I was experiencing the low T symptoms. I am fit, have weight lifted for years, avid biker etc...was feeling drained, low libido, brain fog etc...My doc didn't want to start me on test due to me being in the normal range...told me i was just getting old...thanks doc lol...anyway I decided to self prescribe. I did some research on the net (Dr. Google). I came across a number of sites unfortunately heavily populated with muscle heads taking atrocious amounts of steroids. I wasn't looking to gain size or anything. I just wanted to "feel better, more youthful". So I decided on 250mg of Test-e every two weeks. I figured this was low enough not to cause problems. First injection. I felt amazing. Libido sky rocketed, energy, appetite went through the roof, brain was clear. This lasted for a few months. Then I started feeling the effects of estrogen. Did not like that at all. So I tapered off. No PCT. Tried some PCT'ish supplements like DIM, test booster supps etc...but no potent drugs. Took me awhile to start feeling "normal". Then back in May of this year I thought I'd try it again (duh!). Did some more research. Figured i started to high last time. Plus injecting every two weeks was wreaking havoc on my levels causing highs and lows. So I decided I'd do weekly injections 90mg. That seemed to do the trick. No real rush of wellness or anything, just an improved libido and overall sense of well being. That was in May. In September I started noticing the negative sides again. Lowered the dose but the sides remained. I switched to Test-c. Not for any particular reason, it was a bit cheaper from where I was ordering from and from all accounts it was pretty much interchangeable with Test-e. I broke out in an extremely itchy all over body rash. Switched back to Test-e for my next weekly injection but the rash and sides remain. I've decided that's it. I'm hoping I haven't messed up my hormonal system. I'm going to try and just stop without the addition of any other drugs but if need be I may add low dose clomid and nolvadex. We'll see how it goes.

 

[madman]

Hey man...I hear you. I started down this road last year. I had blood work done and my doc at the time said my test was in the normal range for my age (52...53 now) all be it in the low normal range. This made sense to me as I was experiencing the low T symptoms. I am fit, have weight lifted for years, avid biker etc...was feeling drained, low libido, brain fog etc...My doc didn't want to start me on test due to me being in the normal range...told me i was just getting old...thanks doc lol...anyway I decided to self prescribe. I did some research on the net (Dr. Google). I came across a number of sites unfortunately heavily populated with muscle heads taking atrocious amounts of steroids. I wasn't looking to gain size or anything. I just wanted to "feel better, more youthful". So I decided on 250mg of Test-e every two weeks. I figured this was low enough not to cause problems. First injection. I felt amazing. Libido sky rocketed, energy, appetite went through the roof, brain was clear. This lasted for a few months. Then I started feeling the effects of estrogen. Did not like that at all. So I tapered off. No PCT. Tried some PCT'ish supplements like DIM, test booster supps etc...but no potent drugs. Took me awhile to start feeling "normal". Then back in May of this year I thought I'd try it again (duh!). Did some more research. Figured i started to high last time. Plus injecting every two weeks was wreaking havoc on my levels causing highs and lows. So I decided I'd do weekly injections 90mg. That seemed to do the trick. No real rush of wellness or anything, just an improved libido and overall sense of well being. That was in May. In September I started noticing the negative sides again. Lowered the dose but the sides remained. I switched to Test-c. Not for any particular reason, it was a bit cheaper from where I was ordering from and from all accounts it was pretty much interchangeable with Test-e. I broke out in an extremely itchy all over body rash. Switched back to Test-e for my next weekly injection but the rash and sides remain. I've decided that's it. I'm hoping I haven't messed up my hormonal system. I'm going to try and just stop without the addition of any other drugs but if need be I may add low dose clomid and nolvadex. We'll see how it goes.

As you know those outdated once every 2-week injection protocols have no place in trt.

Most are injecting 100-200 mg/week whether sub-q/IM using various injection protocols (once weekly, twice weekly, M/W/F, EOD, or daily).

The goal is to achieve healthy TT/FT levels which would result in relief/improvement of low-t symptoms while at the same time minimizing/avoiding and potential side-effects and keep blood markers healthy long-term.

Whether that means achieving high-end TT/FT levels or average level comes down to the individual and what level is needed for relief/improvement of low-t symptoms.

Blood work is critical and should always be done when using exogenous testosterone.

Relying on just symptoms relief and how you feel overall is a sure-fire way to run into issues sooner or later.

 

[klepp0906]

Hey man...I hear you. I started down this road last year. I had blood work done and my doc at the time said my test was in the normal range for my age (52...53 now) all be it in the low normal range. This made sense to me as I was experiencing the low T symptoms. I am fit, have weight lifted for years, avid biker etc...was feeling drained, low libido, brain fog etc...My doc didn't want to start me on test due to me being in the normal range...told me i was just getting old...thanks doc lol...anyway I decided to self prescribe. I did some research on the net (Dr. Google). I came across a number of sites unfortunately heavily populated with muscle heads taking atrocious amounts of steroids. I wasn't looking to gain size or anything. I just wanted to "feel better, more youthful". So I decided on 250mg of Test-e every two weeks. I figured this was low enough not to cause problems. First injection. I felt amazing. Libido sky rocketed, energy, appetite went through the roof, brain was clear. This lasted for a few months. Then I started feeling the effects of estrogen. Did not like that at all. So I tapered off. No PCT. Tried some PCT'ish supplements like DIM, test booster supps etc...but no potent drugs. Took me awhile to start feeling "normal". Then back in May of this year I thought I'd try it again (duh!). Did some more research. Figured i started to high last time. Plus injecting every two weeks was wreaking havoc on my levels causing highs and lows. So I decided I'd do weekly injections 90mg. That seemed to do the trick. No real rush of wellness or anything, just an improved libido and overall sense of well being. That was in May. In September I started noticing the negative sides again. Lowered the dose but the sides remained. I switched to Test-c. Not for any particular reason, it was a bit cheaper from where I was ordering from and from all accounts it was pretty much interchangeable with Test-e. I broke out in an extremely itchy all over body rash. Switched back to Test-e for my next weekly injection but the rash and sides remain. I've decided that's it. I'm hoping I haven't messed up my hormonal system. I'm going to try and just stop without the addition of any other drugs but if need be I may add low dose clomid and nolvadex. We'll see how it goes.

Well like most things, we live and we learn. Too often its the hard way. Always tell the wife, if i got a "do-over" id have the world by the balls.

You're brave giving it a go with no help. I've been shut down for 2.5 years straight, i shudder at the thought. At this point its more preservation of the physique ive spent a lot of years developing, cessation of the hair loss, and freeing myself from being tethered to medication. If it was a universal win without sides I'd have given up the hair, and even dealt with being slave to a pharmacy. At this point its all the bad and rarely any good so it's time.

As you know those outdated once every 2-week injection protocols have no place in trt.

Most are injecting 100-200 mg/week whether sub-q/IM using various injection protocols (once weekly, twice weekly, M/W/F, EOD, or daily).

The goal is to achieve healthy TT/FT levels which would result in relief/improvement of low-t symptoms while at the same time minimizing/avoiding and potential side-effects and keep blood markers healthy long-term.

Whether that means achieving high-end TT/FT levels or average level comes down to the individual and what level is needed for relief/improvement of low-t symptoms.

Blood work is critical and should always be done when using exogenous testosterone.

Relying on just symptoms relief and how you feel overall is a sure-fire way to run into issues sooner or later.

and therein lies the rub. for me at least. due to relatively high shgb (even after starting trt it only dropped to the low-mid 40s) in order to get relief from the symptoms I had I have to pump my testosterone so high my dht and psa goes with it. Off to the races with the loss of head hair, growth of back hair, and most disturbingly bph symptoms. Thats become intolerable. I considered finasteride which would undoubtedly arrest the hairloss, limit the bodyhair, and probably shrink the prostate.

Problem is that further binds me to a pharmacy. Thats probably the direction id head if it werent for the finasteride side effects of libido/erectile dysfunction scaring me away completely. Basically petrified considering those were two major motivators in starting trt to begin with.

 

[klepp0906]

Ok, so looking for a little input here. To say im nervous/uncertain about the decision is putting it lightly. This has been bothering me for quite some time.

I have ordered 20,000 iu of unmixed hcg, 100mg clomid x50 (will be chopping in half), and 20mg nolvadex x100.

What im wondering due to how long ive been atrophied (plus to test if i'd feel better) if it would be helpful to simply start with some lower dose hcg while staying on trt to see if my nuts start waking up before hopping off exogenous testosterone completely? Would it make the transition to being test free that much less taxing on me if my nuts were already awake?

Or i could find i feel better in mind and body with hcg added and carry on that way as an option.

I was thinking like 500 iu every 3 days or something when I do my injections for a few months to see if they wake up? Or is that too low or would it be a waste of my time/hcg?

The stuff is taking awhile to get here so I have to make sure I go about this properly as getting more in a timely fashion will take pre planning hence the xtra.

 

[Cataceous]

...
What im wondering due to how long ive been atrophied (plus to test if i'd feel better) if it would be helpful to simply start with some lower dose hcg while staying on trt to see if my nuts start waking up before hopping off exogenous testosterone completely? Would it make the transition to being test free that much less taxing on me if my nuts were already awake?
...

Probably. This is what I would do.

...
I was thinking like 500 iu every 3 days or something when I do my injections for a few months to see if they wake up? Or is that too low or would it be a waste of my time/hcg?
...

That's a good dose to take concurrently with TRT. It should significantly reverse testicular atrophy.

 

[klepp0906]

Probably. This is what I would do.


That's a good dose to take concurrently with TRT. It should significantly reverse testicular atrophy.

Thank you very much for your input. I suppose I'll decrease my test dose a bit and add in the hcg and go from there.


Now pre trt when i tested well I tested at almost 500, is that what my testicles best case would output again with hcg? aka i need to reduce my exogenous testosterone enough to compensate for a potential increase of 500 from endogenous? Or is it not additive in a linear fashion like that?

 

[Cataceous]

...
Now pre trt when i tested well I tested at almost 500, is that what my testicles best case would output again with hcg? aka i need to reduce my exogenous testosterone enough to compensate for a potential increase of 500 from endogenous? Or is it not additive in a linear fashion like that?

Assuming secondary hypogonadism, your previous natural testosterone production is not going to be predictive of the maximum possible output; the underperformance is due to low upstream hormones, not a testicular problem. The hCG is directly stimulating the testicles, so technically you don't even need to reduce the exogenous testosterone. However, it could still be a little helpful to reduce overall serum androgens and estrogens, which reduces their negative feedback at the hypothalamus and pituitary. This might save a little time down the road in a restart. It's hard to predict the amount of endogenous testosterone you'll get from this dose of hCG. Anecdotally there is a lot of variability, ranging from very little to almost physiological levels. Whatever you produce will indeed be added to your exogenous testosterone.

 

[klepp0906]

ok, once again thanks again for the reply.
Since 60mg 2x a week gets me to 1100 I imagine i'll have to reduce by a fair amount. Perhaps 40mg 2x a week to start. I need to get my TT way down anyhow. While my libido seems to improve the higher I go, unfortunately it brings on some abysmal BPH symptoms.

I had intended to bring it down anyhow. Might not be able to have my cake and eat it too but getting the boys back online is the first variable to eliminate I suppose.

 

[madman]

Your reply to my earlier post:

and therein lies the rub. for me at least. due to relatively high shgb (even after starting trt it only dropped to the low-mid 40s) in order to get relief from the symptoms I had I have to pump my testosterone so high my dht and psa goes with it. Off to the races with the loss of head hair, growth of back hair, and most disturbingly bph symptoms. Thats become intolerable. I considered finasteride which would undoubtedly arrest the hairloss, limit the bodyhair, and probably shrink the prostate.

Problem is that further binds me to a pharmacy. Thats probably the direction id head if it werent for the finasteride side effects of libido/erectile dysfunction scaring me away completely. Basically petrified considering those were two major motivators in starting trt to begin with.






due to relatively high shgb (even after starting trt it only dropped to the low-mid 40s) in order to get relief from the symptoms I had I have to pump my testosterone so high my dht and psa goes with it. Off to the races with the loss of head hair, growth of back hair, and most disturbingly bph symptoms. Thats become intolerable. I considered finasteride which would undoubtedly arrest the hairloss, limit the bodyhair, and probably shrink the prostate.

Here is the main issue with this as you stated pre-trt your SHBG was high and on trt it hovers in the low 40s while also stating that you have to pump your T levels up (1000-1100 ng/dL) to experience relief/improvement of low T symptoms and the main drawback is the side-effects you have experienced which is a downer, to say the least.

All said and done you keep going on about having to run higher TT levels due to highish SHBG in order to experience the beneficial effects and although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

We have absolutely no idea where your FT levels sit on such protocol (dose T/injection frequency) let alone if it was even tested using an accurate assay such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration.

Unless you have had such done and let us know where your FT level truly sits then we are just shooting in the dark here!

 

[madman]

ok, once again thanks again for the reply.
Since 60mg 2x a week gets me to 1100 I imagine i'll have to reduce by a fair amount. Perhaps 40mg 2x a week to start. I need to get my TT way down anyhow. While my libido seems to improve the higher I go, unfortunately it brings on some abysmal BPH symptoms.

I had intended to bring it down anyhow. Might not be able to have my cake and eat it too but getting the boys back online is the first variable to eliminate I suppose.

If you are hitting a trough TT 1100 ng/dL on 120 mg/week split into twice-weekly injections (60 mg every 3.5 days) then your peak TT/FT levels are going to be much higher.

Again we have absolutely no idea where your FT level truly sits at trough let alone PEAK!

Your FT levels may very well be higher than you needed let alone much higher thank you think.

Unless you had FT tested using an accurate assay your guess is as best as mine.

 

[klepp0906]

Here is the main issue with this as you stated pre-trt your SHBG was high and on trt it hovers in the low 40s while also stating that you have to pump your T levels up (1000-1100 ng/dL) to experience relief/improvement of low T symptoms and the main drawback is the side-effects you have experienced which is a downer, to say the least.

All said and done you keep going on about having to run higher TT levels due to highish SHBG in order to experience the beneficial effects and although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

We have absolutely no idea where your FT levels sit on such protocol (dose T/injection frequency) let alone if it was even tested using an accurate assay such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration.

Unless you have had such done and let us know where your FT level truly sits then we are just shooting in the dark here!

Oh i've had many-a-labs done over the past few years with varying protocols. At current these are my levels at 60mg 2x a week

 

[klepp0906]

If you are hitting a trough TT 1100 ng/dL on 120 mg/week split into twice-weekly injections (60 mg every 3.5 days) then your peak TT/FT levels are going to be much higher.

Again we have absolutely no idea where your FT level truly sits at trough let alone PEAK!

Your FT levels may very well be higher than you needed let alone much higher thank you think.

Unless you had FT tested using an accurate assay your guess is as best as mine.

isnt day ~3 when you would peak anyhow? so if I get a lab done on a monday morning 3.5 days after my last injection (thursday evening) i'd be pretty close to peak?

 

[madman]

Oh i've had many-a-labs done over the past few years with varying protocols. At current these are my levels at 60mg 2x a week

View attachment 11329

That is not FT tested using an accurate assay (Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration).

Unfortunately too many rely on the piss poor direct immunoassay or flawed cFTV.

 

[madman]

isnt day ~3 when you would peak anyhow? so if I get a lab done on a monday morning 3.5 days after my last injection (thursday evening) i'd be pretty close to peak?

No levels will start rising within 2 hrs post-injection and peak in 8-12 hrs.

 

[klepp0906]

That is not FT tested using an accurate assay (Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration).

Unfortunately too many rely on the piss poor direct immunoassay or flawed cFTV.

yea, in that regard all I have is what the doctor runs. That being said its always been ran the same way so the number relative to where it is in other cases at least holds relevance relatively speaking. Id argue thats more important than the specific number itself in this regard no?

No levels will start rising within 2 hrs post-injection and peak in 8-12 hrs.

man, if this is the case - there is a whooooole slew of conflicting and thus misinformation on the web. (shouldnt come as any surprise) Its evident by your posts you know quite a bit about hormone replacement, but if what youre saying is true wouldnt the fact I have moderately high shbg generally mean i dont metabolize T that fast? Which is why lower shbg guys tend to need to inject more frequently?

Aka how far could I potentially drop in 3 days time?