Latest Labs. Slight elevation in hematocrit

One year in. Just had my 6month check in.
Peak Total T 1144, (injected 12 hours before test)
SHBG 19
Hematocrit 53

Cypionate: 120mg divided into twice weekly injections.

Any reason to back off to 100, given the low SHBG and hematocrit levels?
Dr wasn’t concerned and mentioned it could be dehydration or because I injected so recently, but that we’ll keep an eye on it.
I ran through the thread quickly, but unless I missed something, I didn't get your age. Is the 74 in your call handle indicative of your age?

I have tremendous confidence in the information provided by the more experienced posters on this forum. But there does seem to be some suggestion in the Traverse trial that high T levels are not good for older men. I started T at 68, my levels were high (just over the suggested ranges) and I then had a TIA, a mini stroke - something the Traverse trials indicated could be a side effect. Sure it may have been a coincidence, but I tend to believe that where there is smoke there is probably fire. I cut back my dose and do feel and look quite good now at age 70. If you're older I'd move that T dose downwards.
 
...
I tend to think that generally speaking, healthier people can run higher levels with no issues. ...

Let's change that to "no acute issues". Make your circulatory system work harder for 10-20 years and all bets are off. From @tareload's informative post:

1775240143726.webp

1775240158151.webp
 
I ran through the thread quickly, but unless I missed something, I didn't get your age. Is the 74 in your call handle indicative of your age?

I have tremendous confidence in the information provided by the more experienced posters on this forum. But there does seem to be some suggestion in the Traverse trial that high T levels are not good for older men. I started T at 68, my levels were high (just over the suggested ranges) and I then had a TIA, a mini stroke - something the Traverse trials indicated could be a side effect. Sure it may have been a coincidence, but I tend to believe that where there is smoke there is probably fire. I cut back my dose and do feel and look quite good now at age 70. If you're older I'd move that T dose downwards.

He was born in 74.

1775243389743.webp





Wise to be cautious here seeing as you had previous cardiovascular issues/surgery and you have AFib.

As I stated in one of your older threads your baseline hematocrit 48% was already sitting near the top-end.

You need to stay on top of your diet, blood pressure, lipids, inflammatory markers, endothelial/vascular health, CBC, visceral adipose.

* Most current guidelines, including those from the American Urological Association and the Endocrine Society, flag hematocrit above 54% as a threshold requiring intervention. Some clinicians use 52% as a softer “watch and manage” threshold, particularly for men with additional cardiovascular risk factors.

Dropped some big ones in 2025!




Professor Michael Zitzmann

We also know hematocrit can be increased by testosterone preparations. It depends on the preparation, and we think that there is data that shows that the threshold of 52-54% should not be surpassed, and men should be controlled for the hematocrit especially in the first year of treatment every 3 months




Hematocrit & Thromboembolic Risk

* TTh increase Hematocrit -
clinically relevant at >52-54%

* Recommended: Control Hematocrit every 3 months in the 1st year









7 FUTURE RESEARCH DIRECTIONS

While substantial progress has been made in understanding the CV safety of TTh, key areas for future research remain to further refine its application and optimize patient outcomes.


1. Long-term CV outcomes


The TRAVERSE trial and similar studies have reassured us of TTh’s short-to-medium-term CV safety, yet long-term effects, especially across diverse populations, require further investigation. Extended follow-up studies are needed to assess the potential for long-term CV safety in men undergoing decades-long TTh.


2. Personalized medicine and genetic factors

Genetic factors, like the CAG repeat polymorphism in the androgen receptor (AR) gene, which affects receptor sensitivity to T, merit deeper study. Future research should explore how genetic polymorphisms influence TTh’s efficacy and safety, aiming for a personalized approach that considers not only clinical symptoms and T levels but also genetic profiles.15,47,48


3. Hct and thromboembolic risks

Although current evidence indicates that Hct increases with TTh can be managed safely, refining thresholds for Hct monitoring and intervention remains a priority. Future studies should aim to develop guidelines tailored to patients at higher thromboembolic risk.


4. Broader health implications of TTh


Expanding research to assess TTh’s impact on cognitive function, bone health, and mortality will deepen understanding of its overall health effects. Such insights would allow for a more comprehensive balancing of TTh’s risks and benefits for varied patient populations.


5. Comparative effectiveness of TTh formulations

Comparative studies on different TTh formulations (e.g., gels, injections, patches) are needed to identify the safest and most effective options for patients with specific comorbidities. This can guide formulation choice in tailored clinical contexts.


By focusing on these research areas, the TTh evidence base can be enhanced, leading to safer, more effective treatment approaches for men with hypogonadism. Integrating genetic factors, broader health outcomes, and real-world data from registries will also support optimized, long-term TTh use, particularly as RCT trials become increasingly challenging due to ethical and financial considerations.








* our meta-analysis stands as the most up to date analysis restricted to RCTs directed to men aged 40 or older.


* The main fndings were as follows: (1) there were no significant diferences between groups in all-cause mortality, cardiovascular mortality, MI, and stroke; (2) TRT signifcantly increased the incidence of cardiac arrhythmias; (3) TRT was associated with decreased levels of HDL-c; and (4) there was a marginal increase in SBP levels in the TRT group.










Elevated haematocrit is common with TTh, typically occurring within 3–12 mo. Levels up to 54% appear safe, but higher values may increase CV risk [15].


* Treatment adjustments are required for haematocrit >54% (requiring withdrawal and phlebotomy in high-risk cases)

 
Let's change that to "no acute issues". Make your circulatory system work harder for 10-20 years and all bets are off. From @tareload's informative post:

View attachment 56352
View attachment 56353
Elevated platelet counts (thrombocytosis) are associated with higher blood pressure and increased risk of cardiovascular events, including stroke and heart attack, as they can cause excessive blood clotting. Conversely, low platelet levels (thrombocytopenia) can cause bleeding risks. Platelet calcium regulation may differ in some populations, influencing these risks.
American Heart Association Journals
American Heart Association Journals +4
 
He was born in 74.

View attachment 56354




He was born in 74.

View attachment 56354




Wise to be cautious here seeing as you had previous cardiovascular issues/surgery and you have AFib.

As I stated in one of your older threads your baseline hematocrit 48% was already sitting near the top-end.

You need to stay on top of your diet, blood pressure, lipids, inflammatory markers, endothelial/vascular health, CBC, visceral adipose.

* Most current guidelines, including those from the American Urological Association and the Endocrine Society, flag hematocrit above 54% as a threshold requiring intervention. Some clinicians use 52% as a softer “watch and manage” threshold, particularly for men with additional cardiovascular risk factors.

Dropped some big ones in 2025!




Professor Michael Zitzmann

We also know hematocrit can be increased by testosterone preparations. It depends on the preparation, and we think that there is data that shows that the threshold of 52-54% should not be surpassed, and men should be controlled for the hematocrit especially in the first year of treatment every 3 months




Hematocrit & Thromboembolic Risk

* TTh increase Hematocrit -
clinically relevant at >52-54%

* Recommended: Control Hematocrit every 3 months in the 1st year









7 FUTURE RESEARCH DIRECTIONS

While substantial progress has been made in understanding the CV safety of TTh, key areas for future research remain to further refine its application and optimize patient outcomes.


1. Long-term CV outcomes


The TRAVERSE trial and similar studies have reassured us of TTh’s short-to-medium-term CV safety, yet long-term effects, especially across diverse populations, require further investigation. Extended follow-up studies are needed to assess the potential for long-term CV safety in men undergoing decades-long TTh.


2. Personalized medicine and genetic factors

Genetic factors, like the CAG repeat polymorphism in the androgen receptor (AR) gene, which affects receptor sensitivity to T, merit deeper study. Future research should explore how genetic polymorphisms influence TTh’s efficacy and safety, aiming for a personalized approach that considers not only clinical symptoms and T levels but also genetic profiles.15,47,48


3. Hct and thromboembolic risks

Although current evidence indicates that Hct increases with TTh can be managed safely, refining thresholds for Hct monitoring and intervention remains a priority. Future studies should aim to develop guidelines tailored to patients at higher thromboembolic risk.


4. Broader health implications of TTh

Expanding research to assess TTh’s impact on cognitive function, bone health, and mortality will deepen understanding of its overall health effects. Such insights would allow for a more comprehensive balancing of TTh’s risks and benefits for varied patient populations.


5. Comparative effectiveness of TTh formulations

Comparative studies on different TTh formulations (e.g., gels, injections, patches) are needed to identify the safest and most effective options for patients with specific comorbidities. This can guide formulation choice in tailored clinical contexts.


By focusing on these research areas, the TTh evidence base can be enhanced, leading to safer, more effective treatment approaches for men with hypogonadism. Integrating genetic factors, broader health outcomes, and real-world data from registries will also support optimized, long-term TTh use, particularly as RCT trials become increasingly challenging due to ethical and financial considerations.








* our meta-analysis stands as the most up to date analysis restricted to RCTs directed to men aged 40 or older.


* The main fndings were as follows: (1) there were no significant diferences between groups in all-cause mortality, cardiovascular mortality, MI, and stroke; (2) TRT signifcantly increased the incidence of cardiac arrhythmias; (3) TRT was associated with decreased levels of HDL-c; and (4) there was a marginal increase in SBP levels in the TRT group.










Elevated haematocrit is common with TTh, typically occurring within 3–12 mo. Levels up to 54% appear safe, but higher values may increase CV risk [15].


* Treatment adjustments are required for haematocrit >54% (requiring withdrawal and phlebotomy in high-risk cases)



As I stated in one of your older threads your baseline hematocrit 48% was already sitting near the top-end.

You need to stay on top of your diet, blood pressure, lipids, inflammatory markers, endothelial/vascular health, CBC, visceral adipose.

* Most current guidelines, including those from the American Urological Association and the Endocrine Society, flag hematocrit above 54% as a threshold requiring intervention. Some clinicians use 52% as a softer “watch and manage” threshold, particularly for men with additional cardiovascular risk factors.

Dropped some big ones in 2025!




Professor Michael Zitzmann

We also know hematocrit can be increased by testosterone preparations. It depends on the preparation, and we think that there is data that shows that the threshold of 52-54% should not be surpassed, and men should be controlled for the hematocrit especially in the first year of treatment every 3 months




Hematocrit & Thromboembolic Risk

* TTh increase Hematocrit -
clinically relevant at >52-54%

* Recommended: Control Hematocrit every 3 months in the 1st year









7 FUTURE RESEARCH DIRECTIONS

While substantial progress has been made in understanding the CV safety of TTh, key areas for future research remain to further refine its application and optimize patient outcomes.


1. Long-term CV outcomes


The TRAVERSE trial and similar studies have reassured us of TTh’s short-to-medium-term CV safety, yet long-term effects, especially across diverse populations, require further investigation. Extended follow-up studies are needed to assess the potential for long-term CV safety in men undergoing decades-long TTh.


2. Personalized medicine and genetic factors

Genetic factors, like the CAG repeat polymorphism in the androgen receptor (AR) gene, which affects receptor sensitivity to T, merit deeper study. Future research should explore how genetic polymorphisms influence TTh’s efficacy and safety, aiming for a personalized approach that considers not only clinical symptoms and T levels but also genetic profiles.15,47,48


3. Hct and thromboembolic risks

Although current evidence indicates that Hct increases with TTh can be managed safely, refining thresholds for Hct monitoring and intervention remains a priority. Future studies should aim to develop guidelines tailored to patients at higher thromboembolic risk.


4. Broader health implications of TTh

Expanding research to assess TTh’s impact on cognitive function, bone health, and mortality will deepen understanding of its overall health effects. Such insights would allow for a more comprehensive balancing of TTh’s risks and benefits for varied patient populations.


5. Comparative effectiveness of TTh formulations

Comparative studies on different TTh formulations (e.g., gels, injections, patches) are needed to identify the safest and most effective options for patients with specific comorbidities. This can guide formulation choice in tailored clinical contexts.


By focusing on these research areas, the TTh evidence base can be enhanced, leading to safer, more effective treatment approaches for men with hypogonadism. Integrating genetic factors, broader health outcomes, and real-world data from registries will also support optimized, long-term TTh use, particularly as RCT trials become increasingly challenging due to ethical and financial considerations.








* our meta-analysis stands as the most up to date analysis restricted to RCTs directed to men aged 40 or older.


* The main fndings were as follows: (1) there were no significant diferences between groups in all-cause mortality, cardiovascular mortality, MI, and stroke; (2) TRT signifcantly increased the incidence of cardiac arrhythmias; (3) TRT was associated with decreased levels of HDL-c; and (4) there was a marginal increase in SBP levels in the TRT group.










Elevated haematocrit is common with TTh, typically occurring within 3–12 mo. Levels up to 54% appear safe, but higher values may increase CV risk [15].


* Treatment adjustments are required for haematocrit >54% (requiring withdrawal and phlebotomy in high-risk cases)

Yes, Madman, as usual you are very well informed, not only of T and all that implies, but also of your followers who corresponded with you in the past.

I had a heart bypass in 2013, which definitely qualifies as a circulation issue. I think my AFIB is a recent development that corresponds with the time period that I took testosterone. AFIB can cause blood clots and a blood clot likely caused my TIA; I now take blood thinners to protect against the stroke risk. I had understood from the Traverse trial that there was a possible link between high T and arrhythmias such as AFIB in older men.

Of course it could all be coincidence, I very much wish that would be true. I lift weights and for the first time in my life I can see results that I never got before T, no matter how much I pushed it. Truly it's been fantastic, I love it, and sometimes I think a little more T would boost those gains even more. That's when I realize I'm falling into the temptation trap that younger men often feel. But I'm certain that if I didn't have some suspicions of T being related to my development of AFIB, then I'd succumb to the siren song.
 
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Let's change that to "no acute issues". Make your circulatory system work harder for 10-20 years and all bets are off. From @tareload's informative post:

View attachment 56352
View attachment 56353
Post 16 in that thread kind of highlights my point… two people with the same hematocrit can have substantially different viscosity. The healthier person with minimal inflammation at 53% can be much better off than someone else at 53%. Likewise, exercise can make your system much more efficient, so again the guy exercising and improving his cardiovascular health is much better off than someone who isn’t. That covers a lot of the viscosity concern, at least as it pertains to my point about people of varying states health-wise being able to tolerate different impacts from treatment.

For the endothelial damage aspect. From what I saw during my skim through it is that he’s referencing a mouse study where the rodents had a hematocrit of 85%. That would be basically impossible for a person to reach, so those findings don’t translate very well to real world in humans. Sure it can be considered a signal, but the extent of damage seen in a guy at 53% has not been quantified so no one should draw correlations between that study and what would happen to a guy barely above 50%. And just like with my point above, it’s at least somewhat likely that the healthier person would see less damage and/or be better able to repair the damage or adapt to minimize it.

3rd factor… NO scavenging. This is the area where the healthier person is CLEARLY better suited to overcome those negative impacts. Exercise is probably the best stimulus for NO that we have, so the person who is exercising they’ll be at a huge advantage over someone who isn’t. And obviously diet and supplements play a role here, particularly when focusing on it for health. Conversely, terrible foods actually deplete NO.




But I’m not telling everyone to just disregard their hematocrit and hopefully my posts don’t come off that way. If you don’t exercise, eat like crap, drink moderately or more, and just generally don’t take care of yourself… then yeah, I agree you should be more mindful of all your lab numbers including hematocrit. But my point in my earlier post is that healthier people can probably get away with more due to being a well-oiled machine that functions a lot better. I stand by that and I also include hematocrit in that statement due in large part to some of my points above. I eat pretty clean, hit the gym 3-4 times/week, have very low body fat, sleep 6-8 hours per night, rarely drink, even more rarely smoke, and I don’t do drugs…. So if my hematocrit sits between 52-53 I don’t worry about it. Again that’s just me though so if others aren’t comfortable with that they have to decide where they want to be.
 
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I ran through the thread quickly, but unless I missed something, I didn't get your age. Is the 74 in your call handle indicative of your age?

I have tremendous confidence in the information provided by the more experienced posters on this forum. But there does seem to be some suggestion in the Traverse trial that high T levels are not good for older men. I started T at 68, my levels were high (just over the suggested ranges) and I then had a TIA, a mini stroke - something the Traverse trials indicated could be a side effect. Sure it may have been a coincidence, but I tend to believe that where there is smoke there is probably fire. I cut back my dose and do feel and look quite good now at age 70. If you're older I'd move that T dose downwards.
In the traverse trials investigators found 182 patients (7.0%) in the testosterone group and 190 patients (7.3%) in the placebo group had a first major cardiovascular event. So the testosterone group actually had fewer strokes, not more. TIA (mini-stroke) was not specifically flagged as a significant adverse finding.

You are correct about the AFIB though, that was a finding from the study.


One thing that is often left out regarding the study though… or at least I don’t see it mentioned much, is that the participants either already had heart disease when it started(around half) or (the other half) had at least one risk factor like obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. So for a generally healthy patient going into trt the risks are actually probably lower than the risks seen from the study participants.
 
Post 16 in that thread kind of highlights my point… two people with the same hematocrit can have substantially different viscosity. The healthier person with minimal inflammation at 53% can be much better off than someone else at 53%. Likewise, exercise can make your system much more efficient, so again the guy exercising and improving his cardiovascular health is much better off than someone who isn’t. That covers a lot of the viscosity concern, at least as it pertains to my point about people of varying states health-wise being able to tolerate different impacts from treatment.
...

In researching this I do not find that overall health can be used to predict the increase in blood viscosity seen with higher hematocrit. Being healthier overall may mean your vasculature is better at short-term compensation, reducing absolute risk. But there's no free pass since you are still increasing your risk by maintaining higher hematocrit.

Studies like this one should give pause to anyone who thinks elevated hematocrit must be benign. It doesn't prove causality, but they did try to control for other risk factors. This starts with a young and relatively healthy population, suggesting what can happen over time.

In this cohort of young Swedish men, hematocrit was associated with the risk of myocardial infarction later in life after controlling for other coronary risk factors. The study findings indicate that hematocrit may aid future risk assessments in young individuals.
The authors argue:

The dose–response relationship and the consistency of findings throughout the extensive follow-up period strengthen the hypothesized cause–effect relationship between hematocrit and MI. Hematocrit may promote MI risk through several plausible mechanisms, discussed below.
 
In researching this I do not find that overall health can be used to predict the increase in blood viscosity seen with higher hematocrit. Being healthier overall may mean your vasculature is better at short-term compensation, reducing absolute risk. But there's no free pass since you are still increasing your risk by maintaining higher hematocrit.
Again, it’s post 16 in that thread. Go down until you get to this part:

So plasma behaves as a Newtonian fluid but its viscosity is a strong function of the proteins within. Take a look at these papers. Guess what really jacks with plasma viscosity, yep you guessed it, inflammation.

Then read everything under it. People in a more inflamed state will have higher viscosity, so the healthier person with less inflammation will be much better off viscosity wise at 52% than the unhealthy person at 52%.

And healthy habits can also substantially reduce the NO scavenging effects of elevated hematocrit.

Studies like this one should give pause to anyone who thinks elevated hematocrit must be benign. It doesn't prove causality, but they did try to control for other risk factors. This starts with a young and relatively healthy population, suggesting what can happen over time.

In this cohort of young Swedish men, hematocrit was associated with the risk of myocardial infarction later in life after controlling for other coronary risk factors. The study findings indicate that hematocrit may aid future risk assessments in young individuals.
The authors argue:

The dose–response relationship and the consistency of findings throughout the extensive follow-up period strengthen the hypothesized cause–effect relationship between hematocrit and MI. Hematocrit may promote MI risk through several plausible mechanisms, discussed below.
For starters I don’t think “elevated hematocrit must be benign”. I’m simply saying that it isn’t as clear it as “this number is always better than that number” and it isn’t as simple as thinking 53% in that person is the same as 53% in everyone else. I’ve pointed out why that isn’t the case. As for the study you referenced, they took a single hematocrit reading in men between 18-19 years old and then waited to see what happens. I can speak from personal experience when I say I know for a fact a person can see a 3 point swing in hematocrit over the course of a few days. That being said, it is a large enough group that I think there is probably some merit to the signal. Even then, over the 36 year follow up there were events in 2.2 out of 100 enrollees. Without the exact numbers, a good estimate would be (based on 1.4 fold increase in the high group) 1.8 men out of 100 in the 44% or lower group and 2.5 out of 100 in the 49% or higher group. A meaningful increase but nothing too scary as far as I’m concerned.

But again that’s just me. Everyone has to weigh their own priorities and do their own calculations. With my current health state I’m not too concerned about my hematocrit levels. And if anyone is wondering they are pretty much always between 51 and 53. Last reading was 52.7 back in Feb. All of my other bloodwork looked great, I’m 175 pounds with very low body fat percentage, and good blood pressure. Even with that being the case, if I started getting closer to 55% I’d definitely re-evaluate things and make some changes. As shown in the thread you shared, the climb gets much steeper the further you get from 50, so getting past 54 into the 55 and beyond range would be a big difference from 52 even though it might not sound like much numbers wise. And maybe some people feel that way about getting closer to 53 than 50. If that’s how they calculate things that’s fine, but I think they would serve themselves well to focus as much or more on other things they can more easily control like diet and exercise. Regardless of where their hematocrit is those things should be a priority and will put them in a better spot, so it’d be nice to see more emphasis placed on those to go along with the emphasis on hematocrit.
 
...
Then read everything under it. People in a more inflamed state will have higher viscosity, so the healthier person with less inflammation will be much better off viscosity wise at 52% than the unhealthy person at 52%.
...

This is overstated. Ask your favorite AI this question: "Can an individual with elevated hematocrit predict, a priori, that his blood viscosity is at a safe level because his other health markers are good? In particular he is claiming that reduced systemic inflammation is protective."

Answer: "
No, an individual cannot reliably predict a priori (i.e., in advance, without direct measurement or longitudinal outcomes) that their blood viscosity is at a “safe” level solely because other health markers are good—including reduced systemic inflammation. While low inflammation may partially mitigate risks in some contexts (via interaction with viscosity), the dominant driver of viscosity-related stress remains elevated hematocrit (Hct), and evidence for full protection is limited and not sufficient for personal assurance."
 
This is overstated. Ask your favorite AI this question: "Can an individual with elevated hematocrit predict, a priori, that his blood viscosity is at a safe level because his other health markers are good? In particular he is claiming that reduced systemic inflammation is protective."

Answer: "
No, an individual cannot reliably predict a priori (i.e., in advance, without direct measurement or longitudinal outcomes) that their blood viscosity is at a “safe” level solely because other health markers are good—including reduced systemic inflammation. While low inflammation may partially mitigate risks in some contexts (via interaction with viscosity), the dominant driver of viscosity-related stress remains elevated hematocrit (Hct), and evidence for full protection is limited and not sufficient for personal assurance."
If you feel the need to reframe it, then ask yourself why that is. No need to build strawmen, just ask it what I claimed. I never said i can accurately guarantee viscosity is at a safe level based on other health markers.


Here is the prompt, then I’ll provide the response from three different LLMs.


Is this statement accurate with regards to hematocrit?

People in a more inflamed state will have higher viscosity, so the healthier person with less inflammation will be much better off viscosity wise at 52% than the unhealthy person at 52%.

Response from Claude(probably the best one at the moment imho)

The statement is largely accurate. Here’s why:
Blood viscosity is determined by more than just hematocrit. While hematocrit is the dominant driver of viscosity, inflammation independently raises viscosity through several mechanisms:
1. Elevated fibrinogen — Fibrinogen is an acute-phase protein that rises with inflammation. It directly increases plasma viscosity and, critically, promotes rouleaux formation (red blood cells stacking like coins), which significantly increases whole blood viscosity.
2. Other acute-phase proteins — CRP, alpha-2 macroglobulin, and others also thicken the plasma independently of RBC count.
3. Reduced RBC deformability — Inflammation can make red blood cells stiffer, so they flow less easily through capillaries, raising effective viscosity even if hematocrit is identical.
So the conclusion holds: Two people at 52% hematocrit can have meaningfully different blood viscosity profiles. The inflamed individual will have higher viscosity due to thicker plasma and greater RBC aggregation, putting more strain on the cardiovascular system.
One nuance worth adding: The statement could be slightly misleading in framing 52% as a fixed neutral number. Hematocrit of 52% is at the upper edge of normal for men and elevated for women — so the reason for a high hematocrit also matters. A person with polycythemia vera, for example, may have additional viscosity risks beyond what a well-hydrated, healthy athlete at 52% would have, even controlling for inflammation.
But the core claim — that inflammation worsens viscosity at the same hematocrit — is well-supported by the physiology.





Response from Grok

Yes, the statement is largely accurate with regards to hematocrit and blood viscosity, though the effect size of inflammation can vary depending on the degree of inflammation, shear rates in different blood vessels, and other individual factors. Here’s a breakdown based on established physiology:


Primary Driver of Blood Viscosity


Hematocrit (the percentage of blood volume occupied by red blood cells) is by far the strongest determinant of whole blood viscosity. Viscosity rises nonlinearly with increasing hematocrit—relatively modestly up to around 45–50%, but more steeply beyond that. At a fixed hematocrit like 52% (which is on the higher end of normal or mildly elevated for many adults, depending on sex and altitude), the red cell volume contribution to thickness is essentially the same for both a healthy and an inflamed person.


How Inflammation Affects Viscosity Independently of Hematocrit


Inflammation increases blood viscosity through several mechanisms beyond hematocrit:


• Higher plasma viscosity: Acute-phase reactants (e.g., fibrinogen, globulins, and other proteins) rise during inflammation. These large molecules make the liquid portion of blood (plasma) thicker.


• Increased red blood cell (RBC) aggregation: Inflammatory proteins promote RBCs to stick together (forming rouleaux), which raises viscosity especially at low shear rates (e.g., in veins or microcirculation).


• Reduced RBC deformability: Oxidative stress or other inflammatory changes can make RBCs less flexible, impairing their ability to flow through small vessels and further elevating effective viscosity.


These changes mean that, at the same hematocrit, an inflamed or unhealthy person tends to have higher overall blood viscosity than a healthy, low-inflammation person. Studies link markers of inflammation (like elevated erythrocyte sedimentation rate, or ESR) with higher viscosity, and they show that the cardiovascular risks tied to higher hematocrit are often amplified in the presence of inflammation.


In short: the unhealthy person at 52% hematocrit is likely to experience worse flow dynamics (higher resistance, greater strain on the heart, poorer microcirculation) than the healthier person at the same level, because their blood is effectively “thicker” due to those extra inflammatory factors.


Nuances and Context


• Hematocrit still dominates: Even with inflammation, the sheer volume of RBCs at 52% has a bigger quantitative impact on viscosity than the secondary effects of inflammation in most cases. However, the additive effects from inflammation are real and clinically relevant.


• Body’s compensatory response: In chronic inflammation, the body sometimes lowers hematocrit (anemia of inflammation) partly to offset the rise in plasma viscosity and keep overall blood viscosity from spiking too high. This suggests the body “recognizes” viscosity as something to regulate.


• Shear-rate dependence: Blood is non-Newtonian—viscosity is higher at low flow (where aggregation matters more) and somewhat lower at high flow. Inflammatory effects may be more pronounced in certain vascular beds.


• Practical implications: Higher viscosity (from any cause) is associated with increased cardiovascular risk, thrombosis potential, and reduced tissue perfusion. A healthy person tolerating 52% hematocrit (e.g., due to living at altitude or athletic training) is generally in a better position than someone with the same level driven by or compounded by inflammation.


The statement captures this dynamic correctly: at identical hematocrit, the lower-inflammation (healthier) individual is “better off viscosity-wise.” If you’re evaluating personal lab results or considering interventions like therapeutic phlebotomy, it’s best interpreted alongside other markers (e.g., ESR, CRP, fibrinogen, plasma viscosity if tested) and overall clinical context.






Response from ChatGpt

What your statement gets right​

  • Inflammation does increase effective blood viscosity, even at the same hematocrit.
  • Mechanisms include:
    • Higher fibrinogen and plasma proteins
    • More RBC aggregation
    • Reduced deformability of red cells
  • So yes, two people at 52% can have meaningfully different flow properties.

Where wording could be tightened (not wrong, just imprecise)​

  • “Much better off” is the only part that’s a bit vague scientifically.
    • The difference can be real and clinically relevant, but it’s not always large enough to dominate risk by itself.
    • The magnitude depends on how inflamed the “unhealthy” person actually is.

A more precise version of your idea​

Without changing your intent:

At the same hematocrit, a person with lower inflammation will generally have lower effective blood viscosity and better flow characteristics than someone with higher inflammation.

Bottom line​

  • Your core idea is valid and physiologically grounded.
 
@Cataceous , since we’re building strawmen today let’s try it in reverse.

Prompt and response from ChatGPT (and it should be noted I’m running these in a private browser without signing in so that replies from other conversations on the topic don’t impact response).


Can an individual with elevated hematocrit predict, a priori, that his blood viscosity is at an unsafe level if his other health markers are good? In particular he is claiming that elevated hematocrit at 52% means he is at an unsafe level.


Short answer: not reliably, no. An elevated hematocrit (like 52%) raises suspicion of increased blood viscosity, but it does not by itself prove that viscosity is at an unsafe level—especially if other markers are normal.

Here’s how to think about it:


What hematocrit tells you​

Hematocrit is the percentage of blood made up of red blood cells. Higher hematocrit generally means thicker blood, but the relationship is nonlinear and influenced by other factors.

At around 50–55%, viscosity tends to rise more steeply—but:

  • The exact viscosity depends on more than just hematocrit
  • Two people with the same hematocrit can have different viscosities

⚙️ What else affects blood viscosity​

Even with a hematocrit of 52%, viscosity depends on:

  • Red cell deformability (how flexible the cells are)
  • Plasma proteins (e.g., fibrinogen)
  • Hydration status
  • Temperature
  • Red cell aggregation (“stacking”)
  • Underlying conditions like polycythemia vera
So hematocrit alone is a proxy, not a direct measurement.


⚠️ Is 52% “unsafe”?​

It’s borderline high, but not automatically dangerous in isolation.

  • In conditions like polycythemia vera, clinicians often aim for <45% because thrombosis risk rises above that.
  • But in otherwise healthy individuals (e.g., living at altitude, athletes, or mild dehydration), hematocrit in the low 50s can occur without immediate danger.
Risk depends on:

  • Symptoms (headache, dizziness, vision issues)
  • Clotting history
  • Cardiovascular risk factors
  • Cause of the elevation

Key point about “a priori prediction”​

Your question is really about predictive certainty, and the answer is:

Hematocrit = risk indicator, not a definitive threshold for unsafe viscosity
You cannot confidently predict that viscosity is unsafe based on hematocrit alone, especially if:

  • Blood pressure, lipids, and glucose are normal
  • No symptoms are present
  • No underlying hematologic disorder is diagnosed

What would actually confirm concern?​

If someone is worried, doctors might look at:

  • Repeat hematocrit (to confirm persistence)
  • Hemoglobin and RBC count
  • Erythropoietin levels
  • Testing for polycythemia vera (e.g., JAK2 mutation)
  • In rare cases: direct viscosity measurement

✔️ Bottom line​

  • A hematocrit of 52% is elevated and worth evaluating
  • But it does not automatically mean blood viscosity is dangerously high
  • It’s a signal to investigate context, not a standalone diagnosis of risk
 
Quibble all you want, but it's a known and pointless risk to undertake when lower doses have not been tried first. And that's just one issue of many. Afib anyone?

1775316127854.webp


Credit to @Nelson Vergel and @madman
 
Quibble all you want, but it's a known and pointless risk to undertake when lower doses have not been tried first. And that's just one issue of many. Afib anyone?

View attachment 56394

Credit to @Nelson Vergel and @madman
For men over 70, the prevalence of atrial fibrillation (AFib) is high, with approximately 10% to 13.7% of men in their 70s and early 80s having the condition. The risk rises sharply with age, reaching over 20% by age 90, as age is the primary risk factor for afid. This is for all men, not men on TRT

It's funny the study you're talking about are men over the age of 70 and a chance for them is 6%
 
Quibble all you want, but it's a known and pointless risk to undertake when lower doses have not been tried first. And that's just one issue of many. Afib anyone?

View attachment 56394

Credit to @Nelson Vergel and @madman
What’s a known and pointless risk?
Also, I’ve already pointed out countless times that there are also more benefits seen at higher levels like 100-120. So if you’re going to point out higher risks at least be intellectually honest and admit there are also more benefits.

What is your cutoff for hematocrit? Is it 51? 52? And whichever number you pick (let’s say 52 for example) it’s not like 51.7 is perfectly fine and 52 is such a huge risk that you have to donate blood and adjust dose immediately. Everything is a risk, thus everything should be viewed through a risk/reward ratio lens. I’ve tried to be very explicit in expressing it that way and also stating that everyone must come to their own conclusion with what their risks are and what they’re willing to accept on that front. For the other topics, like different aspects of health having an impact, everything I’ve said is factually accurate. Not sure why you interpret that as “quibbling”.


For the AFIB you’re just bobbing and weaving as usual. If you want to talk about that then fine, we can. But I still stand by all my points in the posts above and you have offered nothing to counter them.
 
...
It's funny the study you're talking about are men over the age of 70 and a chance for them is 6%

It's actually 4,570 Australian men with ages ranging from 35-80.

What’s a known and pointless risk?
Also, I’ve already pointed out countless times that there are also more benefits seen at higher levels like 100-120. So if you’re going to point out higher risks at least be intellectually honest and admit there are also more benefits.

We are not going to re-litigate these points here. There is no data showing that 100+ mg TC/week is better for overall health than lower levels that are more in line with normal physiology. In contrast, the risk of side effects is unquestionably higher. If you want to continue then link to the last thread we overran and we will resume there. No further discussion here.
 
[Moderator's note: Increasingly off-topic discussion moved to here]
...
What is your cutoff for hematocrit? Is it 51? 52? And whichever number you pick (let’s say 52 for example) it’s not like 51.7 is perfectly fine and 52 is such a huge risk that you have to donate blood and adjust dose immediately. Everything is a risk, thus everything should be viewed through a risk/reward ratio lens. I’ve tried to be very explicit in expressing it that way and also stating that everyone must come to their own conclusion with what their risks are and what they’re willing to accept on that front. For the other topics, like different aspects of health having an impact, everything I’ve said is factually accurate. Not sure why you interpret that as “quibbling”.
...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's actually 4,570 Australian men with ages ranging from 35-80.



We are not going to re-litigate these points here. There is no data showing that 100+ mg TC/week is better for overall health than lower levels that are more in line with normal physiology. In contrast, the risk of side effects is unquestionably higher. If you want to continue then link to the last thread we overran and we will resume there. No further discussion here.
I don't mean to disrespect you. But you must take off your blinders. I know you need lower levels to feel good. So you think everyone does.
 
It's actually 4,570 Australian men with ages ranging from 35-80.



We are not going to re-litigate these points here. There is no data showing that 100+ mg TC/week is better for overall health than lower levels that are more in line with normal physiology. In contrast, the risk of side effects is unquestionably higher. If you want to continue then link to the last thread we overran and we will resume there. No further discussion here.
Since you're trained in cycling, you should be aware. Chronic high-intensity, long-duration cycling can increase the risk of developing atrial fibrillation (AFib), particularly in middle-aged men. While moderate exercise lowers risk, years of intense endurance training can cause structural changes like atrial dilation or scarring. This phenomenon is often termed "the athlete's heart".
 
What is your cutoff for hematocrit? Is it 51? 52? And whichever number you pick (let’s say 52 for example) it’s not like 51.7 is perfectly fine and 52 is such a huge risk that you have to donate blood and adjust dose immediately. Everything is a risk, thus everything should be viewed through a risk/reward ratio lens. I’ve tried to be very explicit in expressing it that way and also stating that everyone must come to their own conclusion with what their risks are and what they’re willing to accept on that front. For the other topics, like different aspects of health having an impact, everything I’ve said is factually accurate. Not sure why you interpret that as “quibbling”.
...

The increase in risk appears to be linear with hematocrit, with even high-normal levels linked to MIs. Personally I would be uncomfortable exceeding the normal range. No argument with respect to individuals deciding the risk-reward tradeoffs for themselves. The problem is that too many guys on injections have not bothered to do this objectively by exploring physiological doses.
 

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