Latest Labs - Low E2 and High DHT

[cleverusername]

Around the beginning of October I had a protocol change, I went to EOD T injections, with HCG also going EOD, injected on none T days. After a week or so I felt pretty darn good, libido was solid for the first time. I tend to aromatase so I kept my AI of 0.22mg on Mon Wed Fri. About a month into the new protocol I got Low E2 symptoms (including libido loss), backed off my AI for a week and returned to taking it every 4th day. Within a week I felt a bit better, libido came back and I was good again. 2 weeks go by and libido drops again, and I go do my labs during this time. I was shocked to see such a low E2 number.

TT 1131
FT 27.2
E2 sensitive 19.7
DHT 118 (range 30-85)
SHBG 28 (risen from the change to EOD injections?)

I know I need to speak to Melissa at my consult, just wondering what are your guys thoughts if the lower e2 and the high DHT. also wondering if my T dose will be lowered, this is my trough, but injecting EOD I don't really have much of a trough. 38mg Test CYP EOD and 250 to 300ui of HCG EOD as well (days with no Test C injection). I have had e2 at 30 and now at 19.7 I am thinking 25 will be my magical number.

 

[Vince Carter]

I don't see the problem not one that I'd monkey with the protocol, 19.7 isn't really low and remember that that's a trough number (lowest point).

 

[cleverusername]

What about DHT being high? This is the first time we tested DHT, I kind of figured it would be low due to injections with no cream usage. You are right, 19.7 isnt really low and I did feel OK here. But having increased the AI again right after this blood draw, I need to go back to AI twice a week, every 3.5 days. Since the increase of the AI again my hands are hurting when I wake, almost as if I have arthritis in them. Lower back is bothering me, not to the point of pain, but I can feel it. I have a disc bulge at L5/S1. Overall though this is the best I have felt since starting TRT.

 

[lexer]

Im wondering if high or normal levels of testosterone in conjunction with low normal estradiol levels contribute to higher dht? Perhpas less estrogen being converted from T so more is converted to dht ?
it seems that estradiol raises when using finasteride which is a dht blocker.

 

[Vince Carter]

DHT being high isn't a problem per se but you should routinely hit the PSA test and monitor that though DHT is thoroughly demonized by Big Pharma it's not the kind of problem that we've been told as hairloss is more about genetics than DHT and even in the Prostate area new discussion is about Estrogen being the culprit there.

 

[lexer]

Vince i disagree with dht not being the culprit for prostate enlargement. Why? Proscar shrinks the prostate because it significantly lowers DHT and raises estrogen by about 15%..
proscar works by shrinking the prostate. Arimidex doesnt shrink the prostate.

 

[Vince]

I agree with everybody else I don't think your estradiol levels are too low. But it looks like you may not need to take an AI any longer, or at least move on to a lower dose.

 

[Vince Carter]

Vince i disagree with dht not being the culprit for prostate enlargement. Why? Proscar shrinks the prostate because it significantly lowers DHT and raises estrogen by about 15%..
proscar works by shrinking the prostate. Arimidex doesnt shrink the prostate.

If you want to dabble in those DHT blockers please be informed and by all means go right ahead and while the initial effect might be positive and the odd individual might not have a long-term problem such as PFS, on this forum, we do not advocate use of DHT blockers. At all.

 

[cleverusername]

I've heard bad bad things about finasteride, definitely dont want nothing to do with that! Finasteride is the reason some guys are here and on TRT, curious why even bring that up.

 

[rhino5169]

Im wondering if high or normal levels of testosterone in conjunction with low normal estradiol levels contribute to higher dht? Perhpas less estrogen being converted from T so more is converted to dht ?
it seems that estradiol raises when using finasteride which is a dht blocker.

Thats an excellent question. In my latest lab work my E2 went from 48 to 18 and my DHT went from 81 to 141.

 

[lexer]

Vince
i am in no way endorsing dht blockers. I am just disagreeing with what you say about DHT not being the culprit with prostate enlargement and the true culprit is estrogen.
Think about it: why does Proscar shrink the prostate? Proscar also raises estrogen by about 15%. If dht wasnt the culprit, how do you explain how proscar shrinks the prostate? Arimidex blocks estrogen and doesnt shrink the prostate..