Just Started Clomid, Will Keep Forum Up to Date

[buggies100]

Beginning of clomid trial 3/29/17
.Since I have been off T for 2 months, I am having some restart. T was up to 364 and LH up to 3.4 2 weeks ago. Since my red blood cell count has been so sensitive to T cyp and I am already starting up again my new dr and I decided to try the clomid route and see what happens. Maybe endogenous T will not spike red blood cells so much, who knows, worth a try. He starts guys at 50 mg/ day for first 2 weeks and then draw blood. Seems high to me, but I will go down this road and see.
His goal is to get my Total T in the 600-800 range. I am not sure that can happen as sensitive to T my red blood cells seem to be.
If clomid fails we will drop back to injections and donations.

I will post results as they come in. At 54 I do not have high hopes, but he has patients older than me that have T counts in the 120 range using clomid.

 

[Esq]

Did you get your labs back yet? Curious what 50mg/ED yields. Hope you're feeling alright.

 

[buggies100]

Did you get your labs back yet? Curious what 50mg/ED yields. Hope you're feeling alright.

Just drew labs today, so shuold mnow something midweek next week. Cognitively and energy wise I feel good. No depression/anxiety. Sleep is the same. Libido is almost completely MIA! Curious to seel results

I did not do discount labs this time, took the script from dr to lab corp and paid for it without insurance. Was 143, but would have been 82 with disc ounted labs!

 

[JPB]

You shouldn't really expect overnight success with Clomid

 

[buggies100]

Agreed, it will take longer than 3 weeks. I hope to have labs back in a few days to report. Last total T was 364ish without looking it up at the moment. I have been feeling better. No great hope it will work, but since I am in restart anyway, best time to try was now

 

[buggies100]

Ok I got my results back from first blood test since starting clomid. Dr had me on 50 mg / day for 3 weeks.
I did bloodwork thru discounted labs on March 29, just prior to starting. It had been since mid January since I had been of Test Cyp, due to high HCT
march 16
Total T 364 (348-1197)
free T 6.4 (7.2-24)
HCT 52.0, (this is down from 62 3 months prior)
LH 3.1 (1.7-8.6)
FSH 2.3 (1.5-12.4)

April 21 after 3 weeks of clomid these labs were what was ordered by dr, not me thru labcorp, I would have included Free T
Total T 410 (348-1197)
Free T not tested
Estrogen Sen 12.3 (7.6-24)
HCT 51.8

Glad to see HCT stay the same, it was hanging at 55-56 for 3 years on Test Cyp

I am less symptomatic than prior to clomid. Energy and cognitive is good, no anxiety or depression bouts. Sex drive is low, only occasional morning wood, maybe 1-2 days a week. Sex is possible with viagra/cialis, just have to get me interested to start. This is not normal, usually I am chasing it most days.

SO, what to do next?? Stay on this protocol for another month, as I know 3 weeks is not much time at all, and there was a 12% increase in total T. I am willing to do that as I am not feeling bad at all.
I have not spoken to Dr yet, our plan was to see what this would do as I was already in a restart naturally, if no success then back to injections with HCG and work out a protocol with phlebotomy included.
What say ye? Continue or bail?

 

[CoastWatcher]

Ok I got my results back from first blood test since starting clomid. Dr had me on 50 mg / day for 3 weeks.
I did bloodwork thru discounted labs on March 29, just prior to starting. It had been since mid January since I had been of Test Cyp, due to high HCT
march 16
Total T 364 (348-1197)
free T 6.4 (7.2-24)
HCT 52.0, (this is down from 62 3 months prior)
LH 3.1 (1.7-8.6)
FSH 2.3 (1.5-12.4)

April 21 after 3 weeks of clomid these labs were what was ordered by dr, not me thru labcorp, I would have included Free T
Total T 410 (348-1197)
Free T not tested
Estrogen Sen 12.3 (7.6-24)
HCT 51.8

Glad to see HCT stay the same, it was hanging at 55-56 for 3 years on Test Cyp

I am less symptomatic than prior to clomid. Energy and cognitive is good, no anxiety or depression bouts. Sex drive is low, only occasional morning wood, maybe 1-2 days a week. Sex is possible with viagra/cialis, just have to get me interested to start. This is not normal, usually I am chasing it most days.

SO, what to do next?? Stay on this protocol for another month, as I know 3 weeks is not much time at all, and there was a 12% increase in total T. I am willing to do that as I am not feeling bad at all.
I have not spoken to Dr yet, our plan was to see what this would do as I was already in a restart naturally, if no success then back to injections with HCG and work out a protocol with phlebotomy included.
What say ye? Continue or bail?

I don't believe you can draw any conclusions at the three week mark. See it through, would be my advice.

 

[Esq]

I don't believe you can draw any conclusions at the three week mark. See it through, would be my advice.

I agree. If I were you, I would give it at least 6-8 weeks before making a decision. Your T numbers seem to be improving (though I would certainly check free T next time), and even at 50mg/day (a rather high dose), your sensitive estrogen is quite low. Do you have pre-clomid sensitive estrogen numbers? I'm shocked yours is that low on such a high dose, which could mean it was in the toilet before starting clomid. Considering you have subjectively noticed that you're less symptomatic, aren't having any side effects, and your numbers are improving, I would think it worth giving it more time.

 

[buggies100]

ESQ, my estrogen levels were 3.5 at end of feb, this was after being off Test Cyp for about 4 weeks. It was never checked prior to switching TRT dr, last guy never looked at much. I know better now.
After speaking with my Dr today, he wants to double up to 100 mg/ day clomid for a month and see if we can move the T anymore. Will check, T, estrodoil, spa and hct at that point. Neve heard of dosing that high, he says he has guys doing it. I will be paying particular attention to visual concerns

 

[buggies100]

Well I have been on this journey for almost 2 months. Started with 50 mg/ day total T went up 12% to a whopping 410!!!
So we upped dosage to 100 mg/day. It has been 3 weeks. I will not do labs for another week, as that is what Dr and I agreed upon, but I am real tired of not caring if I ever have sex again! It is great not having to fight the HCT issue, which is a problem for me. And energy level seems to be pretty good, just no sex drive. And then sometimes I find myself thinking that maybe at 54 I will just age early and sex will be a very limited thing!!!! Then I think crap, that is not me, where did that thought come from!!!! So I do not think my mental state is proper. I find myself tending towards fragile things. I have been nervous about riding my Harley, not something I have ever experienced.
I am ready to throw this stuff away and start injections again!!

 

[FeelingLost]

Hi buggies, subscribing to your thread. I was so hoping and rooting for your clomid restart to work. I have been considering trying a clomid restart myself. I am kind of sick of all the side effects my TRT program has and really would like to do something else.

 

[Esq]

Well I have been on this journey for almost 2 months. Started with 50 mg/ day total T went up 12% to a whopping 410!!!
So we upped dosage to 100 mg/day. It has been 3 weeks. I will not do labs for another week, as that is what Dr and I agreed upon, but I am real tired of not caring if I ever have sex again! It is great not having to fight the HCT issue, which is a problem for me. And energy level seems to be pretty good, just no sex drive. And then sometimes I find myself thinking that maybe at 54 I will just age early and sex will be a very limited thing!!!! Then I think crap, that is not me, where did that thought come from!!!! So I do not think my mental state is proper. I find myself tending towards fragile things. I have been nervous about riding my Harley, not something I have ever experienced.
I am ready to throw this stuff away and start injections again!!

100 mg a day? Wow. That seems crazy to me. That is the kind of dosing prescribed for female infertility. I'm not a doctor, but if 25mg/day and then 50 mg/day for two months only got you from 364 to 410, it seems like you're not responding. I'd invite Dr. Saya or others to weigh in, but 364 vs. 410 probably is within normal fluctuations anyway, meaning that the clomid may have done absolutely nothing for you. For comparison's sake, 12.5 mg/day clomid took me from 700 to over 1100 (and raised my free T by an even greater percentage).

Perhaps most important, if I"m reading this correctly, it appears you are having no subjective improvement in symptoms, and may be feeling worse?

 

[buggies100]

ESQ,
I am with you, the change in total T was a statistically insignificant number. I also realize that it may take awhile and patience is important. So next Wednesday will be 4 weeks at 100 mg. I will do labs, but based on how I feel there will either be no change or possibly I am one of the guys with high serum numbers but no actual effect. We will see in a few days.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

100mg per day of Clomid, as Esq noted, is an absurdly high dosage for HPTA stimulation purposes.

It appears Clomid is unfortunately not going to work for you (the 50mg dosage already let us know that).

 

[Esq]

ESQ,
I am with you, the change in total T was a statistically insignificant number. I also realize that it may take awhile and patience is important. So next Wednesday will be 4 weeks at 100 mg. I will do labs, but based on how I feel there will either be no change or possibly I am one of the guys with high serum numbers but no actual effect. We will see in a few days.

Good luck. It is tricky stuff. Even with my fairly dramatic increase in numbers, I still haven't really noticed much symptom improvement with clomid. With my e2 in check, I'd say I feel about 5% to 10% better than before, but overall it hasn't made as much of an improvement as I had hoped.
.
I'm curious - what was your testosterone protocol before you attempted the restart? I'm certainly no expert considering I have not yet gone that route, but I wonder if your protocol was less than optimal (in terms of dosing, injection days, ancillary support, etc.), it could have contributed to the hematocrit problems.

 

[buggies100]

Well, Wednesday amd Thursday evening i started getting visual disturbances, flashing and distortion in periphal vision. So i ma coming off. I will do a new baseline test, E2, cbc set of labs monday. I am still symptomatic so i spoke with Dr. I am ending the 2 month long clomid experiment. 50 mg dailey for first month amd 100 mg daily for second month
Dr wants me to dose test cyp every 3.5 days at 50 mg per injection. I went from 200 mg every two weeks after 3 years to 40 mg every 3.5 days back in dec, an attempt to get the hct down from 56.5. In 5 weeks or so hct went to 62.5.
So i am going to start at 25 mg every 3.5 days and see how it goes from there

 

[FeelingLost]

Hi buggies100, I to suffer from high HCT. Are you taking any supplements that could be helping your body make more red blood cells?
Google is loaded with sites listing all the supplements folks with Anemia use to help the body make even more red blood cells.
Might be worth looking into.

 

[buggies100]

Hi buggies100, I to suffer from high HCT. Are you taking any supplements that could be helping your body make more red blood cells?
Google is loaded with sites listing all the supplements folks with Anemia use to help the body make even more red blood cells.
Might be worth looking into.

I have not looked at that, but i will. Thanks

 

[buggies100]

Blood work back from latest labs checking on the climbed success or not. After 2 1/2 months of 50 mg per day and then 100 mg / day Total Test was 444 and free was 5.8. So apparently it will not work for me. My HCT was down to 49.8! I have not seen that since a few years before i started any TRT.

Started new protocol last night. Going only 30 mg twice a week to start slow, I know very slow. Last time I did 40 mg twice a week HCT spiked up about 4 points in 5 weeks!

 

[Traderj]

Buggies,

I just caught up on your thread and I am right at your age. I had low libido, low T, and brain fog and mild depression in the morning. I went on 25mb of clomihd and saw results fairly quickly. About 60 days. I am also doing the LIPO C injections. My T actually went up 300 percent but it was over time. One of the things Dr. Saya and Dr. Crisler have said is that Clohmid is a long term thing and will not happen quickly.

My other results have been good, better libido, more energy and more positive outlook. If you take all of those symptoms together and I had relief from all of them. I consider this a minor miracle, and I thank Dr. Saya and Dr. Crisler for this.

Maybe your system is just not responding and you just have to go the T route. But I would certainly do a consultation with Dr. Saya or Dr. Crisler, they know this stuff inside and out, and unfortunately, most doctors do not.

Im still on it and plan to be for the forseeable future.