Endo just prescribed me clomid

[Forty2]

Hey guys, my endo has just prescribed me clomid for secondary hypogonadism that I believe was induced by taking Accutane back in the mid 90's. He has instructed me to take 50mg eod for 2 months and then get blood work done again. The blood work he wants me to do is just testosterone, SHBG, LH and FSH. He's not interested in testing estradiol, which my primary care physician pulled before I saw him. Even though my estradiol was very low at 11, he did not see it as a problem. Do most endos think testing for estradiol doesn't matter?
Also I've read here and elsewhere that many guys do well on a dose as little as 12.5mg eod and that 50mg eod has a good chance of causing a lot of bad side effects.
I'm thinking about starting on 12.5mg eod and then if I have no sides after a month, increase it to 25mg eod.
I have the following questions:
1) Do clomid tablets split easily into quarters using a regular pill splitter, or do they crumble? What is the best way to divide them?
2) On a dose of 12.5mg eod how many weeks will it take for my testosterone, LH and FSH to build up sufficiently high?

Thanks.

 

[Vince]

Are guys that do well on low dose clomid unicorns...or do they really exist?
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-dose-clomid-unicorns-or-do-they-really-exist

 

[Forty2]

Thanks, I read through those pages, but I could not find the answer to either of my questions .

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

1) Yes, they split very easily. You can use a pill cutter, or even a knife. The pills are very sturdy and will not crumble as long as the blade is sharp.

2) Clomid will start to work very quickly. It has a long half-life, which means the effects accumulate over time, and peak around 5 weeks. The issue with clomid is that the estrogenic isomer has a much longer half-life than the anti-estrogenic isomer. That said, your LH and FSH will start to rise very quickly, and you may notice some difference after a few days. However, they will stabilize at around 5 weeks.

I do agree that you should try the lowest possible dose first. 12.5 eod is a great starting point. Get tested after 5-6 weeks, and if symptoms have improved and numbers look good, keep at it. If you think you can do a little better, try 12.5 daily, but back off if you start to feel worse. Clomid's psychological effects will creep on you. You may not realize that you are slowly becoming more and more depressed. It may be easier to pay attention to your libido instead.

 

[Forty2]

Thanks very much, AbsoluteZ3R0. Very helpful reply!
I was just chatting to a guy who tried clomid last year at 12.5mg eod. He said that he had no side effects at all until the 5th week. When his lab test was done after exactly 4 weeks on clomid both his TT and FT were right near the top of the reference range - they had more than tripled on such a low dose! He said his libido was very high during the first 3-4 weeks and then during weeks 5-8 he had no libido and felt very, very depressed so quit.
He now cycles testosterone cream for 2 weeks, followed by clomid for 2 weeks and nothing for 2 weeks, then repeats and is able to keep his testosterone and libido high most of the time doing it this way.

 

[JPB]

...He now cycles testosterone cream for 2 weeks, followed by clomid for 2 weeks and nothing for 2 weeks, then repeats and is able to keep his testosterone and libido high most of the time doing it this way.

Interesting protocol!

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

Thanks very much, AbsoluteZ3R0. Very helpful reply!
I was just chatting to a guy who tried clomid last year at 12.5mg eod. He said that he had no side effects at all until the 5th week. When his lab test was done after exactly 4 weeks on clomid both his TT and FT were right near the top of the reference range - they had more than tripled on such a low dose! He said his libido was very high during the first 3-4 weeks and then during weeks 5-8 he had no libido and felt very, very depressed so quit.
He now cycles testosterone cream for 2 weeks, followed by clomid for 2 weeks and nothing for 2 weeks, then repeats and is able to keep his testosterone and libido high most of the time doing it this way.

Unfortunately, I started my clomid protocol at WAY too high of a dose, at the behest of my endocrinologist. I have speculated before that clomid has a very low maximum effective dose. I don't think there is much of a difference between 12.5mg and 100mg as far as boosting testosterone is concerned, but in terms of side effects, the difference is astronomical. You see plenty of guys on low dose clomid (like 12.5 mg eod) triple their test levels, but I have never once heard of someone on 25 or 50 daily quintupling their testosterone, or getting better results in general. It seems that it doesn't take much to maximize the desired effect. Clomid is a very strange beast because one must deal with not only the elevated e2 from aromatization but its directly estrogenic action on specific estrogen receptors, as well as its estrogen antagonist properties in other receptors. It seems to me that the lower the dose you can get away with, the better. If 12.5 eod is too much, 12.5 every 3 days or even twice weekly might still be good enough to improve symptoms.