Joint Popping/Cracking... Estrogen Related?

[SpeedJunky]

Ive been struggling with low T for 9 years (35 years old now) and over the last year or so I've noticed some pretty bad joint popping/cracking from my joints. Knees, shoulders, neck, ankles, wrists etc.

I've been on TRT (100mg cyp/weekly) and had low E2 of 14, Test of 233 when starting and SHBG of 14. I know my low SHBG is a major problem and probably have to dose more frequently but what the heck could this joint popping and cracking be come from because its driving me crazy. I want to think it's estrogen related, but if that was the case I'd think the injections would elevate estrogen and I wouldn't have these problems. (Not due for labs for another 4 weeks). Could I have damaged ligaments from working out with low T for the last ten years?

I take krill oil/flaxseed oil daily and it doesn't seem to do jack.

This is starting to take over my life. Sad I can't just feel normal like everyone else.

 

[Vince Carter]

Arthritis?

Where's your last set of labs? Post those for us with lab ranges. Otherwise you're really devoid of any meaningful detail that you can't have a conversation about it.

 

[SpeedJunky]

Arthritis?

Where's your last set of labs? Post those for us with lab ranges. Otherwise you're really devoid of any meaningful detail that you can't have a conversation about it.

Apologies


TSH with Reflex, FT4, FT3: 1.36 .... Range .36-3.74
TPO AB: 7..... Range: 0-34
Free T4: .09 ..... Range: .76 - 1.46

Testosterone
Test, Serum: 229 ..... Range: 348-1197
Free T: 12.1 ..... Range: 8.7 - 25.1
SBGH: 15 Range: 16.5 - 55
Estradiol: 20.... Range: 11-52.5
LH: 4.1 .... Range 1.7-8.6

 

[Vince Carter]

This is your lastest set of labs, right? Besides that you're on a completely incorrect protocol for your SHBG. If that is your labs on the 100mg per week I'll give you some advice. Also note that you're using the wrong E2 testing, anything other than the (ultra) sensitive LC/MS/MS is meant for females. This is the only acceptable test for males. I can tell its wrong because of the lab range.

 

[Vince]

I don't think your joint problem is coming from low estrogen. I definitely would supplement with magnesium, zinc balance, boron and D3.

Magnesium

 

[SpeedJunky]

This is your lastest set of labs, right? Besides that you're on a completely incorrect protocol for your SHBG. If that is your labs on the 100mg per week I'll give you some advice. Also note that you're using the wrong E2 testing, anything other than the (ultra) sensitive LC/MS/MS is meant for females. This is the only acceptable test for males. I can tell its wrong because of the lab range.

Yes, I can only give you what my doc ordered. I'll ask him to run the sensitive estrogen panel next go around.

I also should probably note I've tested positive for the HLA-B27 gene which is a genetic marker for possible Ankylosing Spondolitis or Reactive Arthritis. It may be some sort of flare up.

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of my health concerns as I've been to 20 doctors and only one has found anything in my bloodwork (besides low T) that's off.

 

[SpeedJunky]

I don't think your joint problem is coming from low estrogen. I definitely would supplement with magnesium, zinc balance, boron and D3.

Magnesium

I run this multi daily:

M-Factor

 

[Vince Carter]

Very possible its just arthritic. Your low SHBG though even given the wrong test being used tells me that you likely have enough Free Estrogen available that it may not be low Estrogen.

Do you have the option to modify your protocol? Like using EOD Cypionate injections. 100mg once or twice per week is really inappropriate strategy for low SHBG.

 

[SpeedJunky]

Very possible its just arthritic. Your low SHBG though even given the wrong test being used tells me that you likely have enough Free Estrogen available that it may not be low Estrogen.

Do you have the option to modify your protocol? Like using EOD Cypionate injections. 100mg once or twice per week is really inappropriate strategy for low SHBG.

I mean, I could figure it out I'm sure. I have 200mg Cyp bottles, I'd have to buy some other tools to go to sub Q injections but I'd be going off protocol prescribed by a doctor and his scheduled blood work. (Getting an appointment with him is very difficult as well, and changing docs isn't an option. He's the ONLY T doc here and my insurance does cover it).

 

[SpeedJunky]

Any other thoughts?

 

[Systemlord]

Low SHBG men typically do much better on more frequent dosing, while my SHBG isn't as low as yours (22), I found I felt better on EOD and even better on daily dosing where I didn't feel the peaks and troughs on a daily protocol.

Twice weekly was erratic and inconsistent and I didn't respond to TRT until I started injecting EOD. The majority of doctors are pretty clueless on how to design a proper TRT protocol.

Low SHBG, very high Free T and very high Free E2. This is why we inject multiple times a week. Smaller injections, estrogen is better controlled. The majority of mainstream doctors or endocrinologists has almost no knowledge in TRT.

If you want to feel better, inject multiple times a week, but no one expects you to make any progress on your current protocol.

 

[Vince Carter]

Estrogen should be better controlled with smaller, more frequent injections though you may not avoid some use of an AI.

 

[Greyfox]

Low SHBG is found often in AS patients, I know from personal experience because it runs in my family however I tested negative for HLAB27 (not a guarantee I won't have it though) but I do have low SHBG. I will link a study where they noticed AS patients had lower serum SHBG. I can imagine what I am about to say will cause others to disagree but if I had AS I would be very cautious with lowering estradiol levels. If there is a genetic potential for you to develop a disease where your bones and joints basically erode away, estradiol would be your friend. I'm not talking highly elevated but somewhere closer to the top of the recommended range(30's on the sensitive test). Of course this is just my opinion. Testosterone and testosterone free index in mild ankylosing spondylitis: relationship with bone mineral density and vertebral fractures. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[SpeedJunky]

Low SHBG is found often in AS patients, I know from personal experience because it runs in my family however I tested negative for HLAB27 (not a guarantee I won't have it though) but I do have low SHBG. I will link a study where they noticed AS patients had lower serum SHBG. I can imagine what I am about to say will cause others to disagree but if I had AS I would be very cautious with lowering estradiol levels. If there is a genetic potential for you to develop a disease where your bones and joints basically erode away, estradiol would be your friend. I'm not talking highly elevated but somewhere closer to the top of the recommended range(30's on the sensitive test). Of course this is just my opinion. Testosterone and testosterone free index in mild ankylosing spondylitis: relationship with bone mineral density and vertebral fractures. - PubMed - NCBI

While i dont have the symptoms per a Rhemtologist I do have the gene. This is why i think its important for me to correct my T levels for future bone mineral density protection down the road. My doctor told me the negatives of long term LOW testosterone far outweigh the side effects of TRT.

Do most agree here? i have a 3 year old I need to make sure Im here for later in life.

 

[Evilwhitey]

While i dont have the symptoms per a Rhemtologist I do have the gene. This is why i think its important for me to correct my T levels for future bone mineral density protection down the road. My doctor told me the negatives of long term LOW testosterone far outweigh the side effects of TRT.

Do most agree here? i have a 3 year old I need to make sure Im here for later in life.

I have a 6yo, 4yo, 3yo and one due this weekend. The biggest push for me to hop on TRT has been so I can be active, have the energy, stay healthy, avoid injury, and be a great father moving forward. I'm almost 40yo and despite decent diet and exercise was already falling apart. I'm only 7 weeks in so we'll see how things go. I certainly have more energy and a sharper mind/less brain fog on trt and I've been able to get stronger in the gym.

Hopefully it fully nukes my fertility as well!

 

[SpeedJunky]

I have a 6yo, 4yo, 3yo and one due this weekend. The biggest push for me to hop on TRT has been so I can be active, have the energy, stay healthy, avoid injury, and be a great father moving forward. I'm almost 40yo and despite decent diet and exercise was already falling apart. I'm only 7 weeks in so we'll see how things go. I certainly have more energy and a sharper mind/less brain fog on trt and I've been able to get stronger in the gym.

Hopefully it fully nukes my fertility as well!

man you got your hands full! LOL