Is low dose nandrolone safe?

[tareload]

I personally don’t really worry about HCT unless it gets around the 55 or higher range

Given the information and logic in the videos you shared, why would you worry with Hct >= 55?

You put your trust in the medical information provided by these 4 individuals?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Given the information and logic in the videos you shared, why would you worry with Hct >= 55?

I imagine he finds the logic of the videos appealing but wants to hedge his bets in case blood viscosity is an actual thing.

 

[Gman86]

Given the information and logic in the videos you shared, why would you worry with Hct >= 55?

You put your trust in the medical information provided by these 4 individuals?

I probably wouldn’t be super concerned personally if my HCT went above 55 and my platelets remained around where they usually do, which is low normal. I would probably have to lower it a little to keep Defy happy tho

These are just a few vids I had handy talking about the subject. But overall I do agree with what they’re saying for the most part

 

[tareload]

I probably wouldn’t be super concerned personally if my HCT went above 55 and my platelets remained around where they usually do, which is low normal. I would probably have to lower it a little to keep Defy happy tho

These are just a few vids I had handy talking about the subject. But overall I do agree with what they’re saying for the most part

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate it.

 

[Sly]

I personally don’t really worry about HCT unless it gets around the 55 or higher range. Think I’ve only come close to that during one set of labs. Last set of labs had me at 50, and was using 125mg of nandrolone on top of my test base. Here’s some viewing material that will hopefully lessen ur fear about the couple of points ur HCT increased while on nandrolone.

(Dr Keith Nichols talks about HCT @ 4 mins in until 27 mins)

(1:05:00 - 1:07:30 they talk about why u don’t need to worry that much about donating blood with higher HCT levels)

And I personally wouldn’t worry too much about using very low dose nandrolone indefinitely. The anecdotes of guys using nandrolone for 20+ years just don’t backup all the scary studies supposedly showing that it causes heart issues. Dr Lichten has actually been using nandrolone for years to treat heart failure

I’ve had my HCT as high as 57.

 

[shroud778]

I personally don’t really worry about HCT unless it gets around the 55 or higher range. Think I’ve only come close to that during one set of labs. Last set of labs had me at 50, and was using 125mg of nandrolone on top of my test base. Here’s some viewing material that will hopefully lessen ur fear about the couple of points ur HCT increased while on nandrolone.

(Dr Keith Nichols talks about HCT @ 4 mins in until 27 mins)

(1:05:00 - 1:07:30 they talk about why u don’t need to worry that much about donating blood with higher HCT levels)

And I personally wouldn’t worry too much about using very low dose nandrolone indefinitely. The anecdotes of guys using nandrolone for 20+ years just don’t backup all the scary studies supposedly showing that it causes heart issues. Dr Lichten has actually been using nandrolone for years to treat heart failure

I definitely had some BP issues on higher doses of nandrolone, especially when it was taken only 2 times a week and at 100mg. Much happier on 35mg a week of NPP and feel like I could continue without any long breaks which makes the training journey more consistent.
I do think however it does encourage you to keep pushing like you did in the past because when the pain is gone you just don’t have a natural balancing force letting you know when to tone it down. I’m hoping that reducing speed of execution and keeping better form will negate some of this risk but pretty sure they’ll be a reckoning day at some point in the future.

 

[Gman86]

I’ve had my HCT as high as 57.

Any negative symptoms that u were aware of when it was that high?

 

[Sly]

Any negative symptoms that u were aware of when it was that high?

Yes, tire easily and headaches.

 

[Gman86]

I

Yes, tire easily and headaches.

Its so interesting to me that EPO raises red blood cell count and is used to give people much more endurance than usual, yet when red blood cell count gets too high it seems to do the opposite. Guess it’s all about balance, but I’d love to see where everyone’s HCT level sat that was in the Tour de France back when lance Armstrong was competing. I would imagine their HCT levels were through the roof

 

[Sly]

I

Its so interesting to me that EPO raises red blood cell count and is used to give people much more endurance than usual, yet when red blood cell count gets too high it seems to do the opposite. Guess it’s all about balance, but I’d love to see where everyone’s HCT level sat that was in the Tour de France back when lance Armstrong was competing. I would imagine their HCT levels were through the roof

I thought the same, but no endurance for me.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I

Its so interesting to me that EPO raises red blood cell count and is used to give people much more endurance than usual, yet when red blood cell count gets too high it seems to do the opposite. Guess it’s all about balance, but I’d love to see where everyone’s HCT level sat that was in the Tour de France back when lance Armstrong was competing. I would imagine their HCT levels were through the roof

An athlete in perfect health can probably tolerate a much higher hematocrit while maintaining low blood viscosity than the average guy whose age and/or obesity and/or overall poor health led to hypogonadism.

 

[tareload]

love to see where everyone’s HCT level sat that was in the Tour de France back when lance Armstrong was competing. I would imagine their HCT levels were through the roof

Changes in blood values in elite cyclist - PubMed

In 2006, a couple of professional cycling teams initiated their own testing programs. The objective of this study is to describe fluctuations in commonly measured blood parameters among top-level riders. From December 12th 2006 to November 30th 2007, a total of 374 blood samples and 287 urine...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

How valid is the determination of hematocrit values to detect blood manipulations? - PubMed

All experiments demonstrate that the Hct is not a constant value but can be considerably changed by physiological measures. Clinical studies show that brain oxygen supply decreases with increasing Hct-values, which are also associated with a higher risk of stroke accidents. We therefore...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Differences between Professional and Amateur Cyclists in Endogenous Antioxidant System Profile

Currently, no studies have examined the differences in endogenous antioxidant enzymes in professional and amateur cyclists and how these can influence sports performance. The aim of this study was to identify differences in endogenous antioxidants enzymes ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Comparison of the Hematological Profile of Elite Road Cyclists during the 2010 and 2012 GiroBio Ten-Day Stage Races and Relationships with Final Ranking

Cycling stage races are strenuous endurance events during which exercise-induced variations in hematological parameters are consistently observed. However, specific literature on such changes is scarce and published data have been derived from small samples of athletes. The aims of this study...

journals.plos.org

 

[Fortunate]

@Cataceous, this is your wheelhouse (along with your intellect)!

 

[tareload]

Does High Hematocrit Lead to Complications for Men on TRT?

Optimal hematocrit for maximal exercise performance in acute and chronic erythropoietin-treated mice | PNAS Abstract Erythropoietin (Epo) treatment increases hematocrit (Htc) and, consequently, arterial O2 content. This in turn improves exercise performance. However, because elevated blood...

forums.t-nation.com

Does High Hematocrit Lead to Complications for Men on TRT?

Further thoughts in response to above copied hear to stimulate discussion/review/thoughts/feedback: @_____, help me understand how TRT would fundamentally shift the qualitative shape of the curves attached below? In order for testosterone to counteract any and all increase in blood viscosity...

forums.t-nation.com

Benefits of Estrogen for TRT Patients

Respectfully, you aren’t getting it. I am differentiating the two. With your logic, you call erythrocytosis harmless, therefore it must be harmless. What’s scary is you don’t seem to understand that. Go read my posts. I outline all of this. Here’s one verbatim from ExcelMale: THE...

forums.t-nation.com

Hematocrit thread on here....

Hematocrit drives Blood Viscosity- Does that Matter in Men on TRT? Effect of Altitude?

Hi ExcelMale folks, I wanted to start off by expressing my gratitude for this site, all of the amazing work that has been put in to make this place such a great source of information. I would expect no less from a chemical engineer :). I've been following this "debate" about how to properly...

www.excelmale.com

 

[SSHSSA74]

This should be good. Let me get my popcorn.

LOL!!

 

[Cataceous]

@Cataceous, this is your wheelhouse (along with your intellect)!

I cede to @readalot, who is considerably better versed in these blood parameter issues.

 

[Fortunate]

I cede to @readalot, who is considerably better versed in these blood parameter issues.

I was referring to cycling, my friend (came up in the discussion above).

 

[tareload]

I was referring to cycling, my friend (came up in the discussion above).

What is the question anyway? If the winning professional cyclists are blood packing or do professional cyclists on tour have Hct above range?

Or something else?

 

[Fortunate]

What is the question anyway? If the winning professional cyclists are blood packing or do professional cyclists on tour have Hct above range?

Or something else?

I suspect the former is a "yes", so it might be hard to answer the latter. But, my guess is that even without packing, pros would have high end Hct.

As an aside, has anyone watched the Netflix show Icarus?

 

[tareload]

I suspect the former is a "yes", so it might be hard to answer the latter. But, my guess is that even without packing, pros would have high end Hct.

As an aside, has anyone watched the Netflix show Icarus?

Yes
NO (see above unless these are the shifty pros)
Yes


Everyone thinks Bo Jackson had a TT of 13 000 ng/dl natural. I always think it was probably 398 ng/dl. These people are just different from the herd and it ain't baseline TT / fT that is the primary or tertiary driver. Neither is Hct.

A 1% edge gets these people a gold medal. 1% edge for me still makes me aggravatingly normal in athletic contest.