Is Clomid working?

[Chins71]

So after a month on Clomid (25mg a day) I have some results (old->new below)

T: 185->713 ng/dL Range: 250-1100 ng/dL
FT: 20.3->94.1 pg/mL Range: 35.0-155.0 pg/mL
LH: 1.8->5.5 mIU/mL Range: 0.8-7.6 mIU/mL
E2: 31(non sensitive)->30(Sensitive) pg/mL Range: < OR = 29 pg/mL
SHBG: 48.7->62.1 nmol/L Range: 11.0-78.0 nmol/L

I definitely see an improvement, mood is better, morning wood for the first time in ages, less ED. I am however putting on weight (fat) as I am craving carbs. I am a little worried by my E2 and SHBG numbers. What do you guys think?

 

[CoastWatcher]

Welcome to Excelmale - we hope you'll be an active member. A month on Clomid is a very short time, and yet, you report improved mood and erectile function - certainly a plus - and your labs reflect solid progress. I would say you have every reason to be pleased and hopeful. Dr. Saya, Defymedical, has posted here that patients on Clomid n Ed to give things time, but it certainly can work in the way you hope it will. What is it about your estradiol that concerns you? On the sensitive test you are only one point above the reference range. An hour later you might have been two points below.

 

[Chins71]

Welcome to Excelmale - we hope you'll be an active member. A month on Clomid is a very short time, and yet, you report improved mood and erectile function - certainly a plus - and your labs reflect solid progress. I would say you have every reason to be pleased and hopeful. Dr. Saya, Defymedical, has posted here that patients on Clomid n Ed to give things time, but it certainly can work in the way you hope it will. What is it about your estradiol that concerns you? On the sensitive test you are only one point above the reference range. An hour later you might have been two points below.

Thanks for the welcome CoastWatcher. I guess my E2 concern stems from the fact that everything I have read says it should be between 20-30 and my free T seems to be low because of my high SHBG. I am new to all this so I could be completely incorrect on both fronts.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Thanks for the welcome CoastWatcher. I guess my E2 concern stems from the fact that everything I have read says it should be between 20-30 and my free T seems to be low because of my high SHBG. I am new to all this so I could be completely incorrect on both fronts.

If you start chasing numbers, particularly when it comes to estradiol, you will fall down a dark hole. The "between 20 and 30" goal is a good guide, a place to start, but in my own case I feel just fine with an E2 of 35-38. Typically, it doesn't get that high, it is usually ten points lower, but it has climbed into the 30s and I was fine. As a man's total testosterone rises their estradiol does as well. Does it make sense that E2 would be the same in two men, one who has a total testosterone of 900 and the other presenting with 650? Estradiol is a necessary hormone, men need it, it's not a waste product. At the same time, it can get out of hand, no question. Monitoring estradiol should start with symptoms, backed up by labs. Anastrozole is always available.

 

[Chins71]

Thanks CoastWatcher. I guess the only symptom I have is adding weight, but I couldn't say with any certainly that it has to do with Estradiol but more to do with my increased appetite. The other thing that concerns me is the high SHBG. My understanding is that the higher SHBG will lower my free T, is there any advantage in attempting to lower it?

 

[CoastWatcher]

Thanks CoastWatcher. I guess the only symptom I have is adding weight, but I couldn't say with any certainly that it has to do with Estradiol but more to do with my increased appetite. The other thing that concerns me is the high SHBG. My understanding is that the higher SHBG will lower my free T, is there any advantage in attempting to lower it?

SHBG levels are notoriously difficult to manage (in either direction). Clomid is impacting yours. Is your liver in good shape? What is your vitamin d level?

 

[Vettester Chris]

It looks effective ... Question is will it sustain for the long haul? Probably have to run labs a few times over the next couple of months, see where things sit.

 

[Chins71]

SHBG levels are notoriously difficult to manage (in either direction). Clomid is impacting yours. Is your liver in good shape? What is your vitamin d level?

Liver is in good shape, I did have elevated AST/ALT but I believe that is a result of my workout routine. I have never thought of testing vitamin d. Is that a blood test I should have?

 

[Chins71]

It looks effective ... Question is will it sustain for the long haul? Probably have to run labs a few times over the next couple of months, see where things sit.

I agree, I am only 30 days into it so it will be interesting to see if it will last. I figure I might as well exhaust this option and if it doesn't work long term then I have other options.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Liver is in good shape, I did have elevated AST/ALT but I believe that is a result of my workout routine. I have never thought of testing vitamin d. Is that a blood test I should have?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26004987
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/727912

Take a look at these.

 

[Chins71]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26004987
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/727912

Take a look at these.

Looks positive. I will give it a try. Thanks.

 

[BeeGee]

Great note on the liver check. Didn't realize its relation to SHBG.

 

[socks]

Thanks CoastWatcher. I guess the only symptom I have is adding weight, but I couldn't say with any certainly that it has to do with Estradiol but more to do with my increased appetite. The other thing that concerns me is the high SHBG.

On SHBG levels, indeed liver issues or diet can play a role there. One study on men found an inverse relationship between Vitamin D levels and SHBG. Have you Vit. D checked on next panel.

On increased appetite, could be related to Clomiphene's effect on various brain regions that regulate homeostasis. Clomid is both estrogenic and non-estrogenic in nature and binds to all sorts of areas where e2 receptors reside such as the pituitary, anterior hypothalamus, posterior hypothalamus, septum, prehypothalmic area, amygdala-perimygaloid cortex, ventromedial nucleus, arcuate nucleus (1).

1)Kato, Junzo. Hormone Receptors in the Brain. Ardent Media, 1973. 24+. eBook.<https://books.google.com/books?id=ZaNhPcwrJkAC&lpg=PA29&ots=0TYxPDMJqm&dq=thalamus%20clomiphene&pg=PA27#v=onepage&q=clomiphene&f=false>

Looking forward to your future updates, good luck.

 

[Chins71]

On SHBG levels, indeed liver issues or diet can play a role there. One study on men found an inverse relationship between Vitamin D levels and SHBG. Have you Vit. D checked on next panel.

On increased appetite, could be related to Clomiphene's effect on various brain regions that regulate homeostasis. Clomid is both estrogenic and non-estrogenic in nature and binds to all sorts of areas where e2 receptors reside such as the pituitary, anterior hypothalamus, posterior hypothalamus, septum, prehypothalmic area, amygdala-perimygaloid cortex, ventromedial nucleus, arcuate nucleus (1).

1)Kato, Junzo. Hormone Receptors in the Brain. Ardent Media, 1973. 24+. eBook.<https://books.google.com/books?id=ZaNhPcwrJkAC&lpg=PA29&ots=0TYxPDMJqm&dq=thalamus%20clomiphene&pg=PA27#v=onepage&q=clomiphene&f=false>

Looking forward to your future updates, good luck.

Thanks for the input Socks. I am planning on adding Vit D on my next panel, but for now I started supplementing with it. I also started taking tongkat ali to see if that has an effect on SHBG, and am trying DIM and calcium glucarate to see what that does to my E2. I am actually feeling pretty good at the moment now I just need my libido back....... I am talking to Dr Saya this week, so I am looking forward to his input.

 

[socks]

Not sure if it was a typo, but "calcium gluconate" is not indicated in estrogen management. It's calcium-d-glucarate that Saya and many others typically recommend.

On e2, I've heard another Doc mention a 10:1 ration as the minimum they shoot for between free t:e2. So right now you're toeing that line for sure. If you're not having any sensitivity at the breast or moodiness, I would continue not to worry too much. You've experienced a huge 350% boost in testosterone so an increased appetite could just be due to growing muscles since you lift and are now able to activate you androgen receptors.

 

[Chins71]

Not sure if it was a typo, but "calcium gluconate" is not indicated in estrogen management. It's calcium-d-glucarate that Saya and many others typically recommend.

On e2, I've heard another Doc mention a 10:1 ration as the minimum they shoot for between free t:e2. So right now you're toeing that line for sure. If you're not having any sensitivity at the breast or moodiness, I would continue not to worry too much. You've experienced a huge 350% boost in testosterone so an increased appetite could just be due to growing muscles since you lift and are now able to activate you androgen receptors.

Yep, it was a typo I am taking calcium-d-glucarate.

 

[JessKom]

So after a month on Clomid (25mg a day) I have some results (old->new below)

T: 185->713 ng/dL Range: 250-1100 ng/dL
FT: 20.3->94.1 pg/mL Range: 35.0-155.0 pg/mL
LH: 1.8->5.5 mIU/mL Range: 0.8-7.6 mIU/mL
E2: 31(non sensitive)->30(Sensitive) pg/mL Range: < OR = 29 pg/mL
SHBG: 48.7->62.1 nmol/L Range: 11.0-78.0 nmol/L

I definitely see an improvement, mood is better, morning wood for the first time in ages, less ED. I am however putting on weight (fat) as I am craving carbs. I am a little worried by my E2 and SHBG numbers. What do you guys think?

I think that Clomid is pretty good. My buddy swears that it is helping him a lot!

 

[Chins71]

I think that Clomid is pretty good. My buddy swears that it is helping him a lot!

It definitely seems to be helping me and I am still in the dialing in process. I spoke with Dr Saya this week and he thinks there is some room for improvement, so has me slightly increasing the does twice a week to see if that will increase my T and FT, it will be interesting to see what the effect will be.

 

[socks]

Hey Chins, with regards to your first post. How many days into 25mg ED before morning wood (MW) came back? Also, compared to it's original strength upon coming out of remission during initial treatment has MW strength increased, remained the same, or decreased as you've continued treatment?

On libido, did it come back for a time at any point in the treatment, in particular during the first stages when MW first came about?

 

[Chins71]

Hey Chins, with regards to your first post. How many days into 25mg ED before morning wood (MW) came back? Also, compared to it's original strength upon coming out of remission during initial treatment has MW strength increased, remained the same, or decreased as you've continued treatment?

On libido, did it come back for a time at any point in the treatment, in particular during the first stages when MW first came about?

It was about 2 weeks in fact it might have been sooner because I remember thinking that the Clomid seems to be working fast on me. I have morning and nocturnal wood every night/morning now, as for strength I would rate them a 7 or 8 on a scale where a 10 actually hurts. My libido is also coming back, it started about 2 weeks into it has been slowly increasing. If I think about sex now stuff begins to move. So that's an improvement right there.