Hypogonadism

[Vince9272]

Hello,

Going to provide a brief summary. 52 year old Hypogonadic male with ED, etc. Had bilateral microsurgical varicocelectomy to remove varicose veins which I had for 20 years. Idiot doctors should have had me have the procedure long ago but GP's and general urologists are idiots. Now my balls might have some permanent damage from the heat and pressure over the years.

Months post surgery normal Test is ~325. Normal free test is low end of range. Normal Estradiol is ~25. DHT is low end of range.

>Low dose Triptorelan increased Test to 600 but does not have lasting effect.
>5,000 IU HCG challenge raised Test to 800 but long term HCG use is a challenge.
>Proved problem not Hypergonadotropic or Primary but is secondary.
>Clomid and/or Nolvadex make me feel like shit.
>HCG in doses around 500 IU don't seem to do much.
>External gel based Test doesn't seem to do much and hate having all that gel all over the place. Maybe a higher % compounded pharmacy product? Also don't like the idea of killing my balls by HPT suppression.
>Tried pharma DHT gel that the transgenders use and it worked great and immediately and in extremely small dose. Problem is it does suppress the HPT axis and took my Test to around 175 but Free Test was low but still around the same as without DHT.

What do you think. I'm thinking of staying on DHT long term but worried about killing my balls. Also worried about Total Test going down but if Free Test stays low but stabilizes maybe its OK. PSA actually lower after using DHT.

Any thoughts on SARMS? Is there a SARM that would help?

Trying to find an elegant, simple solution that doesn't have me dedicating all my time and energy to syringes, clicking around on websites, testing things that don't work, paying idiot doctors big money that don't know any more than I do, etc., etc.

 

[Gene Devine]

I think this is simple; you've tried a lot with some success but why don't you go on Testosterone injections and be done with it? You wouldn't need the DHT anymore as its a metabolite of Testosterone.

I'd stay on HCG as HPTA will be suppressed and you need HCG as an LH analog to replace the same.

I honestly think this is your best option to get the kind or results you need for health and happiness.

 

[trt4me]

What about mono Hcg? 800 is a good number. How much and long did you take Hcg to get to that?

 

[Vince9272]

I was thinking about that. Since I'm not a body builder I was thinking like a shot once a week to get me in the ~600 range which of course would drop intraweek and then take another shot. I'm not crazy about the prospect of then having to shoot HCG as well.

 

[trt4me]

I was thinking about that. Since I'm not a body builder I was thinking like a shot once a week to get me in the ~600 range which of course would drop intraweek and then take another shot. I'm not crazy about the prospect of then having to shoot HCG as well.

Hcg should be done more than once a week.
2-3 times minimum

 

[Vince9272]

I was thinking about mono HCG as well. That way I would only have to take one product. The 800 was in response to a one time HCG challenge test (a basic Endocrinology test) of 5,000 IU's. I'm not sure how much I would need to get me to around 600. One thing which could make the HCG a lot more practical is sublingual HCG. Its not my intention to get off on a tangent regarding sublingual HCG. I've spoken to numerous compounding pharmacists who say they sell a lot of sublingual HCG and that its the same exact molecule as regular HCG just in a slightly different suspension, typically alcohol. It gets absorbed slightly less efficiently so you may need to take a little more but that's the only difference. Also I'm not sure but the sublingual troches (the little bags you stick under your tongue) may not need refrigeration which is another plus.

 

[Vince9272]

I was thinking about that. Since I'm not a body builder I was thinking like a shot once a week to get me in the ~600 range which of course would drop intraweek and then take another shot. I'm not crazy about the prospect of then having to shoot HCG as well.

 

[Vince Carter]

Around here sublingual HCG is a total joke, no one uses it.

I admire your strength to do something about it but you seem unwilling to do what it takes, injections, daily, weekly, it's a huge commitment.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Around here sublingual HCG is a total joke, no one uses it.

I admire your strength to do something about it but you seem unwilling to do what it takes, injections, daily, weekly, it's a huge commitment.

Dead on. Of course some compounding pharmacists will market an oral prep, they will make good money from it. And, yes, it is the same molecule - did they discuss absorption from the gut???

An older thread with excellent commentary.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?4914-Oral-HCG&highlight=Oral+HCG

 

[Vince9272]

Thanks for feedback but one has to be extremely vigilant with all data floating around the web. I think this site may be geared more towards primary hypogonadism and also seems to be geared towards affiliate revenue from ad providers, e.g. compounders, testing companies, misc. gear, etc.. which would explain the responses but I'm trying to find and address root causes, not buy services and products.


Last thing in the world I need is testosterone, transdermal or injections, and all the _ that comes with it. All I need is to slightly increase DHT which can be done with a thumbnail size of 2% DHT gel. This allows about 1 mg to enter the bloodstream. That's it. This small amount causes little if any suppression as AR receptors only sit on the hypothalamus, not the pituitary. I know from personal experience DHT works quickly and effectively. To accomplish the same thing with testosterone would be a hot mess. I also may be able to completely eliminate that through low dose Naltrexone in that the hypothalamus AR receptor is not directly attached to the hypothalamus but acts through opiate receptors. (Naltrexone is not an opiate). But I haven't tried Naltrexone yet. At a HIGH level this would conceptually work similar to Clomid and/or Nolvadex only in that it would be blocking suppressive AAS signaling but the details of its functionality are much different and beyond this post.

I personally make no recommendations unless I've actually tried something and know definitively its worked. Too many opinions. Cheers.

 

[Gene Devine]

Okay, so you don't want to go on TRT. I get that...unfortunately if you want the subjective and pharmacological benefits of TRT you need to do TRT.

HCG as a mono therapy rarely is effective...if it was, men would be on it and not TRT.

Also, HCG will cause Secondary Hypogonadism via the negative feedback loop so you will be HTPA suppressed...if you don't know what that means then research it here on the site and forums.

Oral HCG doesn't work...period. The molecule is to big to be absorbed. It's why it can only be injected...do your research if you don't believe the information here in your thread.

 

[Vince]

DHT Gel Shuts Down LH, FSH, Estradiol and T But Sustained Sexual Function
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...Estradiol-and-T-But-Sustained-Sexual-Function

 

[Vince Carter]

If you just want some DHT get a Testosterone cream and apply it to your nuts. I did that for awhile, in addition to my injections, and that really boosted my DHT to upper lab ranges, sometimes just over. I used that everyday, I think...25mg of Test Cream. On a 16-79 lab range I would be (w/o cream) @ 40, but with the cream I could go just over 100 two hours after application.

 

[CSI007]

Thanks for feedback but one has to be extremely vigilant with all data floating around the web. I think this site may be geared more towards primary hypogonadism and also seems to be geared towards affiliate revenue from ad providers, e.g. compounders, testing companies, misc. gear, etc.. which would explain the responses but I'm trying to find and address root causes, not buy services and products.


Last thing in the world I need is testosterone, transdermal or injections, and all the _ that comes with it. All I need is to slightly increase DHT which can be done with a thumbnail size of 2% DHT gel. This allows about 1 mg to enter the bloodstream. That's it. This small amount causes little if any suppression as AR receptors only sit on the hypothalamus, not the pituitary. I know from personal experience DHT works quickly and effectively. To accomplish the same thing with testosterone would be a hot mess. I also may be able to completely eliminate that through low dose Naltrexone in that the hypothalamus AR receptor is not directly attached to the hypothalamus but acts through opiate receptors. (Naltrexone is not an opiate). But I haven't tried Naltrexone yet. At a HIGH level this would conceptually work similar to Clomid and/or Nolvadex only in that it would be blocking suppressive AAS signaling but the details of its functionality are much different and beyond this post.

I personally make no recommendations unless I've actually tried something and know definitively its worked. Too many opinions. Cheers.

You can try HCG mono-therapy, I did. I tried everything to avoid taking T injections. I spent the last year trying to get better without making the "sacrifice" of having to inject the stuff. The fact of the matter is, not everyone is the same. There is no cookie cutter approach to resolving the problems of low T. What works for one may not work for another.

No one wants to be in the situation that any of us are in. I think if you read more on this forum you will see that not everyone are body builders. And just about everyone got to this point through no fault of their own. For me, it was probably cancer treatment for others it may have been simply some event in their lives or the luck of the draw.

I felt like crap for years and it was only getting worse. If you are having problems and you obviously are since you are researching then why not find a good Doctor and get on a plan and take control of how you feel. I have been on test-cyp injections for almost 6 weeks now. I am starting to get my life back! The past two days I was able to have sex without ED!! And without taking Cialis. For me that speaks volumes.

I HATE, and I mean HATE being reliant on some external crutch to make me, ME again. But you know what? That's life sometimes. I didn't ask for cancer and I sure as hell didn't want to have all of those toxic chemicals poured into my veins every two weeks along with the hair loss, nausua, loss of nerve sensitivity, mouth ulcers, loss of taste etc. etc. but I had to do it so that I could be here today.

As for the Ads here. This is how they support the site and I am grateful for the services they provide. I am dropping my health insurance this week because we can't afford the RIDICULOUS prices because of this stupid ACA crap being shoved down our throats. I have used discount labs twice now and if I didn't have that option I would be paying crazy amounts for my lab tests going forward. The owner of this forum is passionate about helping other men deal with these kinds of issues.

If you decide to try HCG sub-lingual or what ever please report back your results as I am sure many others will be interested in them. From what I have read, this is not an approach that really works though. If it did, the popular HCG diet would have more people using that as well. I seem to read just about people taking injections to get any kind of results.

Finally, if its the injections you don't want to deal with because of fear or anxiety don't let that bother you. I can't stand needles and was terrified of the thought of doing it. I pushed through the HCG mono from twice a week, to EOD to ED and then when that stopped working I went on to the T shots. Again was somewhat worried about the effects but the sub-Q shots are a breeze. probably spend 10 minutes a week total on 4 shots. 2 t-cyp and 2 HCG.

Good luck and I hope you are able to resolve your issues.

 

[Vince Carter]

I was thinking about that. Since I'm not a body builder I was thinking like a shot once a week to get me in the ~600 range which of course would drop intraweek and then take another shot. I'm not crazy about the prospect of then having to shoot HCG as well.

That might be something to you, but that's not got a thing to do with anything we've got going on here. Not at all. You really show that this just isn't what you want to do, in any form or another, gel, injections, creams, I don't know what you're after since you lack the interest and the commitment to therapy of any kind. I would recommend you head over to the PeakT site, he's much more nutritional and supplemental and life style than you're going to find here, which is an injection centric membership base.

 

[CoastWatcher]

The remarks regarding the focus of this website, that it is focused on men dealing with primary hypogonadism, is mistaken.

The remarks suggesting that the presence of advertisers indicates that our purpose is to "sell" services or products is offensive and utterly untrue. Why an individual would join a Forum and insult the volunteer efforts that all of us engage in to help others achieve improved health baffles me.

This thread is closed.