How do I get my body to produce on its own?

[Fr8man]

So judging by the lab results, I'm secondary. Low T, LH & FSH at the lower end of the reference range, although normal.

Before I start trt, I want to give my body a chance to produce t on its own. How can I do that? What can I take to help me make t? I want to exhaust all my options in this regard before I throw in the towel and embark on a life long journey of trt.

Much appreciate your input!

 

[SilverSurfer]

I tried losing weight first. The main ways to boost testosterone is to get your BMI in shape, get 8+ hours of solid quality sleep (make sure you don’t have apnea), and make sure your vitamin D and thyroid is acting normally. Other than those, nothing, no supplements, no bs intermittent fasting, or pseudo therapies are going to boost your testosterone to any noticeable difference.

Unless you’re morbidly obese, alcoholic, have sleep apnea, and low vitamin D and thyroid function, I doubt you’ll be able to boost testosterone more than 100 or 150 pts.

 

[slicktop]

+1 to all the above. Thyroid health is SO overlooked, even in the TRT world. Some guys go to the drive-through T clinics and overpay for test shots and never have their thyroid or liver and kidney values looked at and wonder why it's not working for them like they thought it would. Ugh. "I've been doing this for 9 months and haven't lost any weight!" Well, your rT3 is sky high and your t3 is in the tank, so...

Beyond straight up alcoholism, there's some emerging theories that daily alcohol consumption also *can* lower testosterone: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM197610072951501 (old but not disproven AFAIK)
Ethanol-induced inhibition of testosterone biosynthesis in vitro: lack of acetaldehyde effect. - PubMed - NCBI

But even if it's not a direct link, alcohol certainly isn't helping your metabolism or helping you to lose weight, so if you want to go full-on "get as healthy as I can first", going dry for a bit might not be a bad idea to include with a quality diet/exercise/sleep plan.

 

[Fr8man]

I don't drink at all.

What about clomid or nolvadex or hCG therapies to see if I can jump start anything?

I'm sure dieting, losing weight and exercising would help to increase my t, but it's not going to cure my hypogonadism. So whatever I might gain from those methods would be petty.

My TSH is just over the reference range and my fT3 and fT4 are normal. Therefore subclinical. I'm hearing that's due to my low testosterone.

 

[Systemlord]

My TSH is just over the reference range and my fT3 and fT4 are normal. Therefore subclinical

Not so fast, rT3 can block fT3 from interacting with your T3 receptors causing hypothyroid symptoms, surely your doctor tested rT3 and antibodies...?

fT3 and fT4 is range may be in the normal ranges, but I wonder is it in the optimal healthy ranges and not those reference ranges defined by sick care.

Thyroid Reference Ranges are too Broad; What is Healthy / Optimal?

Reverse T3: Side Effects of T3-only (or why you need T4 too)

 

[Fr8man]

Not so fast, rT3 can block fT3 from interacting with your T3 receptors causing hypothyroid symptoms, surely your doctor tested rT3 and antibodies...?

fT3 and fT4 is range may be in the normal ranges, but I wonder is it in the optimal healthy ranges and not those reference ranges defined by sick care.

Thyroid Reference Ranges are too Broad; What is Healthy / Optimal?

Reverse T3: Side Effects of T3-only (or why you need T4 too)

TSH
4.54 (0.27 - 4.20) uIU/mL

fT3, free
3.6 (2.0 - 4.4) pg/mL

ft4, free
1.24 (0.93 - 1.70) ng/dL

No doc, but I did do reverse and antibodies. Can't find the results but no problems there.

 

[Vince Carter]

TSH
4.54 (0.27 - 4.20) uIU/mL

fT3, free
3.6 (2.0 - 4.4) pg/mL

ft4, free
1.24 (0.93 - 1.70) ng/dL

No doc, but I did do reverse and antibodies. Can't find the results but no problems there.

Your TSH is problematic, anything >2.0 is indicative of something to be looked at.

This means absolutely nothing to us, of particular note on that is that lab ranges are often far from being good, your TSH being one part of it.

"Can't find the results but no problems there."

Came back to us with your RT3 and the antibodies and we can help you further.

 

[slicktop]

Your TSH is problematic, anything >2.0 is indicative of something to be looked at.

This means absolutely nothing to us, of particular note on that is that lab ranges are often far from being good, your TSH being one part of it.

"Can't find the results but no problems there."

Came back to us with your RT3 and the antibodies and we can help you further.

+1. My slightly elevated TSH (2.49 LabCorp) and psycho high IGF-1 (425, 2x normal) was what got Defy to start investigating my thyroid levels more. They then wanted full thyroid panels done which includes all the stuff Vince is referring to. So at that point I got to start learning about all that stuff as best as I could, cause the testosterone feedback loops aren't enough to get confused over on their own

Not to discourage you, but I wish you the best of luck. Thyroid levels can be trickier to get right than regular old test and estrogen. Have patience and do lots of your own research! You have to make this your hobby in order to be successful unless you get lucky!

 

[Charliebizz]

+1. My slightly elevated TSH (2.49 LabCorp) and psycho high IGF-1 (425, 2x normal) was what got Defy to start investigating my thyroid levels more. They then wanted full thyroid panels done which includes all the stuff Vince is referring to. So at that point I got to start learning about all that stuff as best as I could, cause the testosterone feedback loops aren't enough to get confused over on their own

Not to discourage you, but I wish you the best of luck. Thyroid levels can be trickier to get right than regular old test and estrogen. Have patience and do lots of your own research! You have to make this your hobby in order to be successful unless you get lucky!

i struggle with trt. But have many hypothyroid symptoms but my labs are pretty good. Tsh is 2 and under. Ft3/t4 midrange and rt3 midrange. I often wonder if that’s what holds me back.

 

[Vince Carter]

RT3 should be <14 (or 15), anything more indicates pooling.

When it comes to Thyroid stuff "mid range" and the lab values rarely indicate anything good and shouldn't be interpreted as such.

Remember to that lab ranges are not optimal, lab ranges are derived mostly from the population that that lab is testing, not that something is good, just shows more than anything else where you fit in to the population that is being tested.

 

[slicktop]

i struggle with trt. But have many hypothyroid symptoms but my labs are pretty good. Tsh is 2 and under. Ft3/t4 midrange and rt3 midrange. I often wonder if that’s what holds me back.

Yeah, I'm lucky that I responded pretty easily to T3, and my biggest trt struggle was my over-responding in the beginning. Somewhere on here, within the last couple days, was a link to "optimum" thyroid levels vs "within range" which took me down a rabbit hole (squirrel!). Seems like many docs are now leaning towards "high normal" for both fT3 and T4 being optimal, with TSH wanting to be around 1. Good luck getting dialed in- we all deserve to feel great! I hope you don't get frustrated and throw in the towel.

 

[Charliebizz]

Yeah, I'm lucky that I responded pretty easily to T3, and my biggest trt struggle was my over-responding in the beginning. Somewhere on here, within the last couple days, was a link to "optimum" thyroid levels vs "within range" which took me down a rabbit hole (squirrel!). Seems like many docs are now leaning towards "high normal" for both fT3 and T4 being optimal, with TSH wanting to be around 1. Good luck getting dialed in- we all deserve to feel great! I hope you don't get frustrated and throw in the towel.

I’m gonna start my own thread. Don’t want to hijack this one.

 

[Fr8man]

Would the ^ thyroid be side effect of low testosterone??

 

[slicktop]

Would the ^ thyroid be side effect of low testosterone??

It's much less likely to happen that way. It *can* happen that way, but I think it's safe to say that'd be the exception, not the rule.

 

[Fr8man]

It's much less likely to happen that way. It *can* happen that way, but I think it's safe to say that'd be the exception, not the rule.

So are my numbers enough to cause this much of t level decline?

 

[Nate_Stone]

I can let you know what worked for me.

I get 7 - 8 hours sleep every night
Yoga/ deep breathing session each day to reduce cortisol (which inhibits testosterone)
No beer, larger, bitter whatsoever (very estrogenic) and cut alcohol right down to once a month
Intermittent fasting (I know not everyone has found this worked)
Lots of healthy saturated fats: Steak, eggs, greek yogurt
Supplemented with vitamin D3 & K2
Supplemented with magnesium
I eat a couple of brazil nuts per day to get my selenium

There are lot more things that I do now to continue to optimise my T levels; but the above is how I started.

 

[Nate_Stone]

I tried losing weight first. The main ways to boost testosterone is to get your BMI in shape, get 8+ hours of solid quality sleep (make sure you don’t have apnea), and make sure your vitamin D and thyroid is acting normally. Other than those, nothing, no supplements, no bs intermittent fasting, or pseudo therapies are going to boost your testosterone to any noticeable difference.

Unless you’re morbidly obese, alcoholic, have sleep apnea, and low vitamin D and thyroid function, I doubt you’ll be able to boost testosterone more than 100 or 150 pts.

Weight loss is vital, especially losing belly fat, as this is a "breeding ground" for estrogen and the aromatase enzyme which converts any extra T in to estrogen

 

[Nate_Stone]

So are my numbers enough to cause this much of t level decline?

In my experience, poor thyroid health is more likely to lead to low T production. Do you get much in the ways of iodine or selenium in your diet?

 

[SilverSurfer]

So are my numbers enough to cause this much of t level decline?

Yes! But not necessarily. They call the thyroid the “master gland” for a reason. You should get your thyroid issues addressed first, then if you are still experiencing low T symptoms, get retested.

Getting on TRT without addressing your thyroid is like remodeling your home, yet not fixing the leaky roof. If your thyroid isn’t working properly you won’t get the full effects of TRT.

 

[Fr8man]

But I'm hearing my thyroid is where it's at because of the low T.

You are saying my low T is because of my thyroid.

How do I address the thyroid issue? I already consume more iodine than the average person. It's not because of antibodies or rt3.
What next?