High Estradiol in Men: How High is Too High?

[Westin]

Hi All,

I'm doing 60mg (up from 50mg a week ago) TC x 2 weekly and 250 iu HCG 3 X weekly. TT in the mid 700's.

Estradiol just came back at 44.4 Labcorp range is 8.0 - 35. Thinking of starting .25 armiidex once a week. At what point would you be concerned about being too high? What would the symptoms be? I'm not emotional or anything.

I do have a very low grade headache, but that could be because I just uped my TC by 20mg weekly.

Thanks.

 

[slicktop]

High E symptoms may include: water retention, hot flashes, moodiness, libido and erectile problems, increased blood pressure. There's much discussion on this forum of whether the correct ratio to look for is SHBG:E2 or T:E. I'm solidly in the SHBG:E2 crowd, but it could vary for you.
How long have you had a headache? If you keep it for a couple days, it could be from increased blood pressure. A good blood pressure cuff is a great tool to have on hand is not expensive at all. I always recommend trying DIM, as it's natural and works well to reduce estrogen for a lot of guys (but not all).

 

[mooseman109]

What is high for you may not be for me and the other way around. For me, when E2 gets over 30 I will begin to have slight anxiety. Not bad, but I will begin to fret small things that I typically do not.

 

[slicktop]

What is high for you may not be for me and the other way around. For me, when E2 gets over 30 I will begin to have slight anxiety. Not bad, but I will begin to fret small things that I typically do not.

YES! There's guys running around this board happy at an E2 of 50; I can't stand being above 30.

 

[pmgamer18]

Make sure you do the E2 sensitive test other wise you might not be high.

 

[TorontoTRT]

If your TT is high your E2 will follow accordingly. If they are in proper ratio you have no side effects. I had E2 of 35 and 72 on different tests, and have no side effects at either number because testosterone levels were in proper ratios with each number. The smaller the ratio between T and E the more side effects.

 

[TorontoTRT]

 

[slicktop]

If your TT is high your E2 will follow accordingly. If they are in proper ratio you have no side effects. I had E2 of 35 and 72 on different tests, and have no side effects at either number because testosterone levels were in proper ratios with each number. The smaller the ratio between T and E the more side effects.

What you're describing works for *some* men, it does NOT work for plenty, myself included. There's no special T:E ratio for me, but SHBG to E2 works. I have side effects with my E2 over ~30, regardless if I'm at 700 or 1050 total T or 17 or over 22 free T.

 

[TorontoTRT]

Then it’s something else. There’s no scientific basis between SHBG and E2 having ti be equal. There’s plenty of medical papers in favour of T/E ratios.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

OK, here I go again since most people do not seem to dig into our stickies and archives.

The "normal" estradiol range was derived from men with low to mid level testosterone, NOT from men on TRT with higher testosterone.

0.4% or so percent of testosterone converts to estradiol. So, estradiol goes up with testosterone. Just multiply your T by 0.004. You will get ng/dL (if in the US). Then multiply that by 10 to get pg/mL.

Example

T: 800 ng/dL

800 x 0.004 x 10= 32 pg/mL

You won't die if it is 45 pg/mL LOL

Please download my latest book and read the section on estradiol. It is not a simple story.

www.BeyondTestosterone.com

Be careful with anastrozole. It can crash your estradiol and you will join this group of guys:

Stories from men who crashed their estradiol (692 stories!)

Do not assume that the symptoms like water retention and sensitive nipples are estradiol related. Most of the time they are not. DO NOT START ANASTROZOLE BY JUST MAKING THIS ASSUMPTION. TEST IT!!

 

[Nelson Vergel]

THE TOP 18 THINGS YOU DID NOT KNOW ABOUT ESTRADIOL IN MEN

Estradiol in Men Articles

 

[TorontoTRT]

People like to blame estrogen for everything. Guys should also watch that video. The body knows what to do with testosterone. And how much to aromatize. At estrogen levels of 72 I had the best libido, great pumps at the gym, morning wood daily and no acne or water retention. I was actually losing fat and losing water. My rings would fall off my fingers at times. The only time you’ll notice side effects is when switching protocols. When levels are stable estrogen levels cause no symptoms unless estrogen is too low or higher then testosterone (unlikely on TRT)

 

[Nelson Vergel]

You are all going to lose your minds when I say this. I am on birth control estradiol pills (low dose) since I am one of those guys who have very low estradiol even at higher T doses. I have never taken anastrozole but I think my long term exposure to oxandrolone in the past did a number on my aromatase.

There, I said it (I am not becoming girly, by the way LOL). My sex drive is so much better!

 

[TorontoTRT]

A lot of bodybuilders also take birth controls pills when bulking. Estrogen helps pump glycogen into muscles. Estrogen is anabolic. You can’t gain muscle with low estrogen.

 

[slicktop]

People like to blame estrogen for everything. Guys should also watch that video. The body knows what to do with testosterone. And how much to aromatize. At estrogen levels of 72 I had the best libido, great pumps at the gym, morning wood daily and no acne or water retention. I was actually losing fat and losing water. My rings would fall off my fingers at times. The only time you’ll notice side effects is when switching protocols. When levels are stable estrogen levels cause no symptoms unless estrogen is too low or higher then testosterone (unlikely on TRT)

I'm not trying to start an argument, but speaking in absolutes like that is just wrong. What you're describing does NOT work for me. I've tried it. I absolutely had side effects from high estrogen, and it wasn't when switching protocols. Speaking in absolutes like that gives a new guy just 4 or 6 months in on TRT the false impression that they may be doing something wrong, when they just might not respond the way others do. I can't see how that's helping men out.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

A lot of bodybuilders also take birth controls pills when bulking. Estrogen helps pump glycogen into muscles. Estrogen is anabolic. You can’t gain muscle with low estrogen.

You got that right!

The Benefits of Estrogen in BodyBuilding

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Let me know if I summarized the issue about arguments on estradiol here:
Before You Post About Estradiol or Anastrozole- READ THIS FIRST

 

[slicktop]

Let me know if I summarized the issue about arguments on estradiol here:
Before You Post About Estradiol or Anastrozole- READ THIS FIRST

YES! Specifically : "Men must maintain healthy levels of estradiol, no question about it. Just what constitutes a “healthy level,” however, has become a matter of dispute here at Excelmale. The conversations become tiresome and unproductive."
If I contributed to tiresome and unproductive, I apologize. I'm just an ardent critic of speaking in absolutes regarding hormone therapy.

 

[TorontoTRT]

That’s fine but pushing theories like SHBG must equal E2 can confuse new guys too. My SHBG varies between 30-32. Why would my estrogen be always 30-32? Maybe if I injected a certain dose everyday. But I inject every 3 days now. And when I had the 72 estrogen that was a trough reading on a 4 day injection schedule. I can assume my estrogen was 100 on peak?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

YES! Specifically : "Men must maintain healthy levels of estradiol, no question about it. Just what constitutes a “healthy level,” however, has become a matter of dispute here at Excelmale. The conversations become tiresome and unproductive."
If I contributed to tiresome and unproductive, I apologize. I'm just an ardent critic of speaking in absolutes regarding hormone therapy.

Nah. You are OK. If someone is truly convinced a certain number makes them feel better and they have done enough trial and error to prove it to themselves, then more power to them. I guess after 36 years on using TRT I don’t believe there are such absolute numbers. Every hormone is somehow connected to others as an orchestra. Thinking that one hormone which is only zero point 4 percent of testosterone has such power on quality of life with a 10 pg
variation is hard for me to grasp. It really implies that all other hormones, your sleep the night prior to testing, your stress level that day, your life style that week, your partner’s fight with you the night before, etc have little influence on your stamina and libido compared to a variation of estradiol level of 20 percent. Call me jaded but I have seen so much suffering and frustration in men chasing one number.

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs even if they are based on placebo or nocebo. We just have to be very careful not to follow beliefs more than data specially when talking to newbies that are seeking a quick fix.