Help with surprising 3-month lab results?

[DFL]

Hello all,

So I got my 3-month lab results today along with a note to STOP my protocol for now, take baby aspirin, hydrate, give blood, and get another CBC panel in 10-14 days.

The surprising results:

- Hematocrit: 54.2 (37.5 - 51)
- Total T: 1396 (264 - 916)
- Free T: 31.8 (7.2 - 24)
- E2 Sensitive: 62.4 (8 - 35)

Wow!!!

My protocol is 80MG Cypionate 2x/week and 400IU HCG 2x/week. I self-inject.

There was some discussion about whether I would need Anastrozole and that I could wait until the 3-month labs. He gave me .125 2x/week anyway but I didn't take it. Guess I should have!

Before this 3-months I was on a jacked up twice monthly protocol from a different clinic for 2 months.

I'm 50, 6'4, 238 lbs. (up from 224 when I started 5 months ago) I'm cycling 5-6 hours a week but have not been in the gym. My diet could be improved but hasn't really changed since before I began. I've been feeling bloated, don't like the weight gain.

As soon as I saw the results I took a .125 Anastrozole and went to give blood.

I don't want to STOP my protocol, I want to adjust it and get on the right track. Obviously my T and E are way high and I need to get the Hematocrit down too.

I would really appreciate any insight or suggestions.

Thank you!

 

[Vince Carter]

did you test in the trough, right before your next inj?

 

[Vince Carter]

 

[DFL]

Yes, I tested last Friday morning at about the exact same time I would have been injecting.

 

[fifty]

I am in a similar boat to you. 80mg test cyp, hcg 500iu, .125 anastrozole every 3.5 days.
Total T 1500+
Free T 25.8
Estradiol 47.2
Hematocrit 54.5

I gave blood last week and added some grape seed extract tabs. I will get another CBC sometime this week and see how it goes. Also I am switching to 54mg, 350iu, and .125 every MWF morning.

 

[lowe2sucks]

if you are stopping protocol what's the need for anastrozole? e2 is high because t is high

 

[DFL]

I don’t want to stop and I don’t think it’s necessary. In fact I think the instructions to do so are ridiculous. I was hoping to get suggestions from people more knowledgeable than myself on what they would do in my situation, until I can get a consult.

Vince that’s really interesting info, thank you.

fifty, yes we sure are in a similar boat, that’s helpful. May I ask how you came to your numbers?

I’m thinking on Monday I’ll go to 60mg T, a 25% decrease. I’m not sure how to adjust HCG and add in the anastrozole however. My anastrozole script is .125 2x/week so I guess I could start with that, but it’s so high maybe 3x is warranted.

Thanks all!

 

[fifty]

My doc said to just spit my weekly dosages 3x instead of 2x and add another anastrozole dose with the additional injection. We will see if that helps control hct better.

 

[DFL]

fifty, I thought you meant you were reducing the dosages on the same 2x schedule, but adding one anastrozole. So you aren't decreasing dosage, just increasing your frequency.

I'm thinking I'll go to 60mg, 300iu, and .125 on my same 2x schedule until I get a consult. Seems logical - I think... Probably I need more anastrozole than that but I'm trying not to make any mistakes.

 

[fifty]

.125 taken at the same time as your 2 injections should bring your e2 in range.

 

[HealthMan]

Lower your dosage guys. Simple as that. In my opinion moving from 2x week to 3x a week will probably make things worse at your current total weekly dosage.

 

[HealthMan]

On another note someone’s reaction to anastrozole varies widely. So really difficult to make any accurate recommendations about what dose to use. The only good recommendation is to start slow and test/see how you feel (so in that sense try 0.125mg twice a week is good start point).
For some people 0.125 twice a week can cause a very big reduction in E2. For some people not really. Just as one example/data point. 0.125mg twice a week reduces my E2 by around 10.

 

[DFL]

Thank you for that HealthMan. Since I'm going to try .125 2x/week as prescribed, would you let it go 3 months without checking or get an E2 test earlier? With it as high as it is and some effects I'm feeling I really want to get it down, but obviously without going too far.

 

[madman]

I don’t want to stop and I don’t think it’s necessary. In fact I think the instructions to do so are ridiculous. I was hoping to get suggestions from people more knowledgeable than myself on what they would do in my situation, until I can get a consult.

Vince that’s really interesting info, thank you.

fifty, yes we sure are in a similar boat, that’s helpful. May I ask how you came to your numbers?

I’m thinking on Monday I’ll go to 60mg T, a 25% decrease. I’m not sure how to adjust HCG and add in the anastrozole however. My anastrozole script is .125 2x/week so I guess I could start with that, but it’s so high maybe 3x is warranted.

Thanks all!

If anything you have room to lower your testosterone dose slightly and bring down your FT a bit.

Regarding hematocrit many would consider 54-55 a cut-off point and most would start donating with levels in the low 50s.

Of course lowering ones testosterone dose/donating blood would aid in bringing down hemo/hemato/rbc's but regarding donating there is a fine line as when one donates too frequently most will run into the issue of crashing their ferritin/iron which can have a negative effect on thyroid function among other things!

Even though there are people in both camps regarding what is considered high/dangerous when it comes to elevated hematocrit do understand that even if one is not experiencing any negative side effects from elevated hematocrit that thicker blood is thicker blood regardless of any symptoms and overall having thicker blood is harder on ones cardiovascular system as the heart has to work harder due to the viscosity/other contributing factors of the blood.

There is a fine line when it comes to donating in order to reduce hemo/hemato and keeping ones ferritin/iron levels in a healthy range.

 

[HealthMan]

Thank you for that HealthMan. Since I'm going to try .125 2x/week as prescribed, would you let it go 3 months without checking or get an E2 test earlier? With it as high as it is and some effects I'm feeling I really want to get it down, but obviously without going too far.

I wouldn’t wait that long. You could test after 4 weeks and then adjust dosage as needed. My E2 now is 23.3. Perfect for me. I guess most people here feel their best when E2 is in the 20-30 territory. Just keep in mind that if your SHBG is too low you will probably need to keep your E2 lower because you will have more free estradiol.

 

[HealthMan]

Agree with madman. And I would add that if someone needs to donate more than 3 times a year it is time to lower testosterone dosage. I chose to reduce my dosage to around 100mg a week from 180mg and couldn’t be happier. My numbers look great and i feel great. No more donating blood and i only need to use a low dose anastrozole because i am prone to gyn but my estradiol without an AI is within normal range (labcorps ultrasensitive)

 

[DFL]

Thanks all, really helpful. I’ve been reading a ton and there’s SO much info, some of it conflicting.

Since I know my levels will still be sky high Monday evening when I would normally inject, I think I will skip that dose and pick back up again Friday morning with either 50mg or 60mg.

I was SHOCKED to see everything that high. All I wanted really was FT in the low 20s. I suspected my E was too high, but damn...

 

[BigBamBoo]

Shoot...mine was 75 my last draw.

Need to pull labs and see where I am at now. Switched from every 3.5 days to M-W-F dosing.

I know I feel like me E is lower. Labs will tell whether this is correct or not.

 

[HealthMan]

Thanks all, really helpful. I’ve been reading a ton and there’s SO much info, some of it conflicting.

Since I know my levels will still be sky high Monday evening when I would normally inject, I think I will skip that dose and pick back up again Friday morning with either 50mg or 60mg.

I was SHOCKED to see everything that high. All I wanted really was FT in the low 20s. I suspected my E was too high, but damn...

Just remember that when you make reductions in your dosage you might feel bad for a few weeks. But hold on that things get back to normal again. So dont take any conclusions on how you feel before waiting at least 6 weeks. Best of luck!

 

[DFL]

Just a followup on this post for anyone who might be dealing with high numbers like I had.

I donated blood, started taking adult low-dose aspirin, upped fish oil to 3,000 (from 2,000), skipped one bi-weekly round of Test/HCG, then resumed treatment.

I lowered Test Cyp from 80mg to 50mg, HCG from 400iu to 300iu, and started taking the Anastrozole .125 2x/week.

3 weeks later and my Hematocrit came down from 54.2 to 50.5. I feel a LOT better. I think that the high E2 was responsible for a nasty bout of depression and also some bad sexual problems with erections, libido and orgasm.

I have a followup with a P.A. today so I'll report back with anything interesting.

Onward and upward! (or downward )