Help - time off TRT and don't want to lose muscle!

[wrldzfstst]

Hello,
I have a question for the physical culturists of the group. High and rapidly-increasing PSA has forced me off test cyp for a period of time, (probably > 2 months) until my biopsy and hopeful resolution with no cancer. I am 61, have been on TRT for close to 5 years, and 200 mg of MD prescribed test cyp/week gets me to a range of 600-900 (low SHBG btw).

I have curtailed the test per Defy instruction although to a layperson it doesn't make sense in that if I have cancer I could just quit test when the path is clear and a treatment decision is made. I do understand at least intellectually that the test might fan the cancer flames but I can't see it making a lot of difference in 2 months or so.

The test and my gym routine has helped me to shed about 35-40 lbs over the time I have been on it with some decent muscle acquisition. My goal is to try to maintain what I can. I would love to hear other's experience and suggestions toward that end (beyond just lift heavy :}). Current routine is a body-part split 6 days/week hitting chest,back and legs 2x/week. I am just trying this split as my preference has been 2-3 full body workouts/week previously. I am flexible though.

Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions/prayers/jokes.
Doug

 

[BigBamBoo]

Hi Doug.
I stopped TRT about 6 months ago. I have always worked out 4-5 days a week since I was in my late 20’s.

I can tell you that I lost some bulk (muscle) and strength after about 2 months of being off TRT.

The main thing was I lost some motivation to workout. I just stopped cold turkey and had zero “crash” or any negative sides from stopping.

Fast forward about a month ago and I am back at it and lifting heavy again.
I still have not gotten all my strength back on my benchpress or squats and dead lifts.

But, physically, I am bulking back up. Just this last Tuesday a guy at the range commented I was getting buff.

So...I would say stick with what you have been doing and try and stay focused and committed to the gym.
Yes, you might lose some muscle/strength, but if stay in coarse with your diet and workouts, you should still stay fit.

 

[Systemlord]

There are plenty of men with prostate cancer on TRT for decades, men with normal testosterone and have prostate cancer and are doing fine.

As for holding onto muscle returning to baseline with lower testosterone, not going to happen. Let's hope you can hop right back on TRT soon.

 

[fifty]

One of my friends was a decent powerlifter. He would go off trt for a month or more at a time (availability issues from his source) and he didn’t give a crap. His strength would go down a little but he didn’t let it worry him.

Have u looked into SelectMDx prostate test?

 

[wrldzfstst]

Thanks for all of the thoughts. My uro was pretty insistent on the biopsy but that said I can certainly rethink if another test makes more sense, at least before the biopsy.

It is probably just me but when I had to go off before for 6 weeks (hip replacement) I didn't feel weaker, and this time approaching two weeks the weights I was at 10 days ago seem impossible, I guess my mind is playing tricks.

 

[fifty]

That being said, my dad got an old school biopsy as he lives in the middle of nowhere and it wasn’t as bad as all the horror stories. He had nowhere to get the selectmdx type tests...would have been a 5hr drive.

 

[Mr S]

Hi Doug.
I stopped TRT about 6 months ago. I have always worked out 4-5 days a week since I was in my late 20’s.

I can tell you that I lost some bulk (muscle) and strength after about 2 months of being off TRT.

The main thing was I lost some motivation to workout. I just stopped cold turkey and had zero “crash” or any negative sides from stopping.

Fast forward about a month ago and I am back at it and lifting heavy again.
I still have not gotten all my strength back on my benchpress or squats and dead lifts.

But, physically, I am bulking back up. Just this last Tuesday a guy at the range commented I was getting buff.

So...I would say stick with what you have been doing and try and stay focused and committed to the gym.
Yes, you might lose some muscle/strength, but if stay in coarse with your diet and workouts, you should still stay fit.

What were your T levels on trt and now after having stopped it? Did you have testicular atrophy? If so, did your testis go back to previous TRT protocol?

 

[Mr S]

One of my friends was a decent powerlifter. He would go off trt for a month or more at a time (availability issues from his source) and he didn’t give a crap. His strength would go down a little but he didn’t let it worry him.

Have u looked into SelectMDx prostate test?

Likewise. I travel abroad and in the USA the pharmacies refused to give me more than a one month supply and I’m now “off” TRT not by choice. I didn’t worry because in the end that would have made matters worse mentally for me. I was upset about the refusal to fill out a 10ml/200mg Cypionate vial or at least give me a three-month supply instead. Survival instinct I suppose

 

[BigBamBoo]

What were your T levels on trt and now after having stopped it? Did you have testicular atrophy? If so, did your testis go back to previous TRT protocol?

On TRT my TT was 1100+ and FT 24+.

I had some shrinkage, but not much.

After stopping my nuts filled back out, my ejaculation volume, and force also returned to pre TRT levels, as did my orgasm intensity.

I know many guys go on TRT trying to help with sexual function issues.
I never had ED or any other sexual issues prior to TRT. After starting TRT I then had delayed orgasms....hard to get off...my ejaculation volume and force went WAYYYY down. I am a “shooter” when not on TRT.

Back to workouts....as I mentioned above, I did lose some strength and muscle size, but nothing dramatic.
I have been hitting hard again and am about 30 lbs lower on my max benchpress and maybe 50 lbs down on my dead lifts.

I believe it is more a motivational issue vs lower T levels.

 

[Mountain Man]

There are plenty of men with prostate cancer on TRT for decades, men with normal testosterone and have prostate cancer and are doing fine.

As for holding onto muscle returning to baseline with lower testosterone, not going to happen. Let's hope you can hop right back on TRT soon.

I am a patient at Morgantaler’s clinic and have a biopsy next week. They told me I could stop the TRT prior to the biopsy if I wanted to, but also were clear that their is no correlation between TRT and prostate growth. My PSA has risen from 1.9 to 3.2 in the past 3 years. I’m 65 and my father had prostate cancer at about the same age. He was told it was something he would die with rather than die from due to the slow growth of it. He made it to 93. I think they tell you that you can come off it before the biopsy just to allay fears some guys have. There is no reason to come off and the PA told me studies show TRT can help treat prostate issues.

A PA will do the biopsy and I believe I meet with Morgantaler after.

 

[wrldzfstst]

Thanks to all. I wish my uro had more experience with TRT but I guess that is what I pay Defy for. I assume they are doing a little CYA and trying to placate my uro by requiring me to get off test for this time.

The biggest reason I think my uro and Defy are concerned is the velocity of the PSA increase: from 1.7 and stable(5 years or so) at the beginning of last year to 3.5 at the end of the year to 5.5 in March.

As for lifting, sounds like the consensus is grin and bear it w/o the test. I think my aim will be to maintain the strength (and muscle) I have acquired and not continue on the progression path, for the foreseeable future. Even that will be a challenge of motivation, we shall see if I can walk the walk. :}

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Several things:

Regarding coming off TRT, I have theory that a lot of the reason people lose strength/size when reducing anabolics is that they try to maintain the same volume and intensity as when on and end up overtraining. Six days a week is likely too much w/o hormonal help, so I would/do use a routine that does not include going to failure in order to reduce recovery time and minimize risk of overtraining.

Regarding biopsy, a longer discussion, but if it were me (and I do some of this preventatively) I would go on an anti-cancer protocol such as developed by eric remensperger who is a stage 4 PC survivor (now cancer free) whose protocol is at questtocurecancer.com before having any further tests. It sounds like you need to do that no matter what so better to start immediately. There are similar programs such as from Dr. Nasha Winters and others that each have a lot of overlap but some individual things as well. Best of luck to you.

 

[wrldzfstst]

questtocurecancer.com before having any further tests.

Thank you for that, what a great resource, guess the afternoon is shot :}

And noted on the lowered volume. I am not good at self-control, though, so though I very seldom set out to lift to failure, I suspect some of that is coming....Maybe those moments will help an old dog learn new tricks.