Hello from MInnesota

[Vettester Chris]

Hey Chris! Thanks for the input. Much appreciated. I posted all the labs that we did so no we didn't delve any further into potential thyroid issues. What you're saying makes sense to look into further, at least from what I remember from my endocrinology class in college 10+ years ago. So you're saying test t4 and t3 again as well as RT3 and antibodies? I'll ask about checking iron and ferritin too. Can you expand a little on what you're talking about or point me in the right direction on something to read?

No BP issues at all, my BP is pretty solid around 115/78. thanks

Cap, yes, the Free T4 and Free T3, plus Reverse T3 labs would suffice. Some of this may have normalized since you've started HC therapy, or again, maybe it wasn't a huge factor at the time. It's hard to say without knowing those labs at that time, RT3, TPO/TgAb antibodies, TIBC, Ferritin, etc. However, your symptoms would IMO press to at least make sure the bases are covered with some additional lab work.


A great place to start is at stopthethyroidmadness.com. I just got the the Revised edition on paperback, it's the real deal! I also follow info on the Net with Dr. Bruce Rind, and Dr. Uzzi Reiss. Dr. Reiss has written several books and he is exceptionally talented with female hormonal education. Women facing peri & post menopause experience the T3 pooling phenomena quite often due to the same situation related with adrenal fatigue, which stems from progesterone shutdown and estrogen dominance. Either way, men or women, the same transport agents are needed to allow T3 to be effective at the cellular level.


Check it out a little further with the info that I mentioned above and it should help expand on the subject. Also, I'm just getting into a new book from Dr. James Wilson, Adrenal Fatigue - The 21st Century Stress Syndrome. It obviously broaches heavily in that department.

 

[jimithing]

Thanks. I did read James Wilson's book Adrenal Fatigue last summer when i was first diagnosed. All those symptoms fit me perfect. I did find stopthethroidmadness.com after my last post and did some reading. I agree it's worth checking out again.

What is TPO, TIBC ?

 

[Vettester Chris]

Thanks. I did read James Wilson's book Adrenal Fatigue last summer when i was first diagnosed. All those symptoms fit me perfect. I did find stopthethroidmadness.com after my last post and did some reading. I agree it's worth checking out again.

What is TPO, TIBC ?

TPO is the Thyroid Peroxidase Antibody assay, in conjunction with with Thyroid AB (AntiThyroglobulin) to detect Hashis. TIBC being the Total Iron Binding Capacity. If you are of European decent, like myself, the iron & ferritin labs mentioned at STTM.com might be even more instrumental with making sure you're not dealing with something in the lines of hemochromatosis. I got hit hard as a carrier of the mutated gene associated with hemo; finding out that I had a ferritin level >1400. If you delve into that subject you will see the same crummy correlations that work upstream and downstream with the endocrine system, not to mention the havoc with the rest of the body. It's all like a friggin domino effect!

 

[jimithing]

Hey guys just an update. I've been on the sub-q Hcg at a 500iu 3x a week dose for the last 2.5 weeks. The last week or so I've really noticed a difference in how i feel. Seem to have more energy, had a couple of kick ass workouts, sex drive is up, noticed morning erection 3x this week which I haven't previously noticed for months.

Hopefully things will continue to improve and my next round of labs will show that.

Im curious if there is anyone who has had success raising T just on Hcg alone?

 

[GettingAnswers]

My testosterone was around 900 on HCG 400iu three times a week. My only issue is that HCG is more expensive than T.

 

[jimithing]

Are you saying you switched to T as the Hcg was too costly? How long did it take you to raise your T only being on the Hcg?

 

[GettingAnswers]

I was on it for a month as solo treatment in an attempt to restart. The HCG cost me almost 150 but at the time I thought it was only good for 45 days. I have since read on here that it lasts much longer so it may not be that bad. Although I didn't seem to notice the same benefits as being on t injections. Mood seems a little better on T.

 

[jimithing]

So after 3 or 4 weeks on HCg 500iu 3x/week I started to notice my nipples were larger and more protruding than before. No pain or tenderness just looks like im nipping out all the time. My wife said they looked normal but I had a sense something was off. I feel pretty damn good to be honest. My sex drive is way up. I've been making great gains in the gym. My wife says my mood is better. Anyways so I emailed my doc about the nipples thing and he agreed to test me along with another set of thyroid labs that I asked to do. Here's what the results are below. My test is way up from before but my estradiol is also high. I meet with my doc on Tuesday to discuss. Im wondering if he will reduce my Hcg dosage or put me or the anastrozole or both. Thoughts?

TSH 1.62 0.40-4.50 mIU/L CB
T4, FREE 0.9 0.8-1.8 ng/dL CB
T3, FREE 3.6 2.3-4.2 pg/mL CB

ESTRADIOL, ULTRASENSITIVE EZ
LC/MS/MS 43 H < OR = 29 pg/mL

T3 REVERSE, LC/MS/MS 14 8-25 ng/dL EZ

TESTOSTERONE, FREE,BIO SLI
AND TOTAL, LC/MS/MS
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL,
LC/MS/MS 1071 250-1100 ng/dL

TESTOSTERONE, FREE 197.4 46.0-224.0 pg/mL

TESTOSTERONE,BIOAVAILABLE 414.6 110.0-575.0 ng/dL

SEX HORMONE BINDING
GLOBULIN 28 10-50 nmol/L

ALBUMIN,SERUM 4.6 3.6-5.1 g/

 

[jimithing]

Also not sure if this matters but i've been doing the injections on Tues/Thurs/Saturday and I had these labs drawn on Saturday morning about an hour or so after I did the injection.

 

[Vettester Chris]

Your FT3/RT3 ratio is: 25.7 ... That's great and indicates that T3 is getting to your cells adequately, not pooling, and ATP is good. Can't remember, are you taking any thyroid medication?

IMO, I would look at backing of the HCG dosage a bit, but that's a call between you and your physician. A little AI like Arimidex would probably be helpful, but I've seen some guys in the past on HCG mono-therapy state that it was difficult to manage their E2, due to the aromatase activity being more intratesticular concentrated. That's never been my experience, just observations from some others as stated above.

So, as you suggested, maybe a little of both ... Reduce the meds a bit, maybe a little Arimidex, recheck labs ...

 

[jimithing]

Thanks Chris. Nope, not taking any thyroid meds. Am still on hydrocortisone for adrenal fatigue which was what I initially went to the doc for in the first place. Im taking 10mg in the am and 2.5mg in the afternoon. I was taking 5mg in the afternoon but have cut to 2.5mg over the last 2 weeks. Next I'll cut that to just the am dose of 10mg and then cut back from there over the next couple months. I don't want to be on steroids long term.

 

[jimithing]

So I met with my doc this week. He gave me a bunch of options and I ended up deciding to try DIM (100mg/day) for 2 weeks to see if that helped and if not then start Anastrozole. He gave me 2 options for the Anastrozole based on cost as I was concerned about that. First is .25mg twice a week. Second option .5mg once a week. The once a week is cheaper as the .25 has to be compounded. I spoke to the pharmacy and the difference is only $20 between the 2.

The other thing we did was decrease my hcg injection from 500 3x week to 400.

I can't seem to find any good info on DIM to see if it actually works. Any thoughts?

From what I've read on here taking the anastrozole 2x a week is a better option than once a week, correct? With that dose does it matter what days I would take it in relation to my hcg injections?

And this is late but I meant to thank everyone on here who recommended the hcg injections vs. the sublinguals. I feel soo much better since I started this.

 

[GettingAnswers]

My doc wrote the script for 1mg tablets a few times a week. I just cut them in quarters and take .25 twice a week.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Jimithing

I would not be spending so much energy trying to chase the estradiol train. It really is not justifiable with your numbers.

Only when you have low testosterone to estradiol ratios gynecomastia happens. Your "feeling your nipples coming out" is not gynecomastia. Your ratio is 25 (TT/E2). Also, is your estradiol done via ultrasensitive?



You have not told us if you have sleep issues or what your height, weight, neck and waist size are. Also, any possible depression induced by life situations.

I would explore a sleep study for sure.



Your last numbers look great.

 

[jimithing]

Only when you have low testosterone to estradiol ratios gynecomastia happens. Your "feeling your nipples coming out" is not gynecomastia. Your ratio is 25 (TT/E2).

Thanks for the replies. What else would it be? It's new since i started the injections.

I don't see why I would need a sleep study. I sleep great now since I started the hcg injections and had occasional insomnia prior to this but otherwise sleep decent with some 5-htp supps.

So are you saying there's no need to try to lower my E2 because of the ratio? There's no risk to running E2 that high as long as TT is high as well? Yes the test was ultrasensitive.

Im 5'10" 185 lbs. I've put on at least 5lbs of muscle since i started the injections. I think there's also a bit of water weight too but i've definitely gained muscle. I've taken pics weekly since right before starting the injections and been working with a dietician and the gains I've made have been great. I've PR'd on all my lifts at least once in the last 6 weeks.

I wear a 15.5-16 collared shirt. My waist is 33.

I've had depression in the past and been on/off zoloft and a couple other SSRI's, last was in 2005. I will never go on one again. I don't feel depressed now and haven't in a few years.

I did do a lot of drugs when I was 16-18. Smoked a lot of pot, LSD, mushrooms, alcohol, all excess. I don't do any of that stuff now except a glass or 2 of wine 2-3 times a month if even that. I don't sleep well if I drink, even a couple glasses.

thanks

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Cool. I just noticed that you report you are no longer tired and you sleep better. Your BMI is good also.

This may sound strange but when my sex drive is at its highest my nipples protrude more. I am convinced that for some of us, nipple enhanced sensitivity (not pain) and volume is correlated to sex drive.

Unless there is pain and enlargement of the tissue under the nipple, I would not worry about it.

 

[jimithing]

Cool. I just noticed that you report you are no longer tired and you sleep better. Your BMI is good also.

This may sound strange but when my sex drive is at its highest my nipples protrude more. I am convinced that for some of us, nipple enhanced sensitivity (not pain) and volume is correlated to sex drive.

Unless there is pain and enlargement of the tissue under the nipple, I would not worry about it.

Interesting. Thanks for the response. It's tough to say. There is definitely no pain at all. I can't tell if there's increased tissue but i don't think so and my pecs look "normal" to me. My wife says Im over reacting but to me my nips are definitely a little enlarged.

Are you saying not to worry about it because the ratio is good? Would it make sense for me to just stick with the decreased dose of hcg to see if the TT and E2 both come down some or would you recommend just keeping at 500 3xweek like I started with?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Jimithing

May be I missed it but are you taking HCG every other day to preserve fertility? If not, twice a week is usually enough for most of us to keep our testicles full and sex drive up.

Unless you have any of these types of breast issues, I would not worry.

 

[jimithing]

Yes taking it to maintain fertility. I am not on testosterone. Just Hcg 3 x a week. thanks