HCG Monotherapy. Success so far and questions.

[lookingforhelp]

Hi all.


An update on my health. For those of you who aren't familiar with my story so far I am a 26 year old who has been suffering with low t and low e symptoms for years.

I began HCG monotherapy on Wednesday 23rd November. I started with a dose of 300iu. I also took 300iu yesterday (Friday).

Since starting I have made some improvements:

• Better feeling of well being. Life feels a little more vibrant and the world feels like a better place. Hard to explain.
• More blood flow to Penis. Its been so long. Always feeling shrivelled and uncomfortable. I put this down to the low e2? Now it feels plump and warm like before which puts a big smile on my face!
• Libido improved slightly. Erections feel better and thicker although still not rock rock hard. I had an orgasm and I felt it throughout my body. For the last few years orgasms have been crap.
• I feel tired and its a nice tired. Like a calm tired rather than a wired and tired.
• For some reason I have been suffering with slightly puffy nipples since being ill and now they are smaller and perky like before? I was expecting nipple issues with HCG and e2 connection. Cannot explain this?
• Skin feels less dry and thin. I know it sounds crazy that it could have effects so quickly but the skin on my hands and arm just looks a lot more healthy.
• I do not have this drawn tired sagging look in my face as much. Even my partner commented on this.
• Hands and feet warmer

All these improvements have made me feel alot more optimistic about getting well again! I know it is early days regarding the HCG and a lot of people feel nothing from it so I have my fingers crossed that if I can dial in Testosterone at a later date (after blood work) I can get my life back!

A few queries I have:

• I still wake up feeling tired. Infact I feel tired a lot of the time still. Still have some aches and pains especially in the morning. Does anyone have any experience with the resolve of this?
• I still dont get spontaneous erections. Does this take longer to come back?
• I am currently wasting half of the HCG I have because I havent got any Bact water yet. Is it safe to freeze the HCG mixed with sodium chloride. Nelson mentioned this on my last post but I wasnt sure if he meant it being mixed with sodium chloride or not?
• My testicles feel a little smaller which is odd. I thought HCG did the opposite? Is my dose too low?

All help, opinions and advice are much appreciated.

 

[Vince]

you're only using HCG and nothing else, it seems like a low does of HCG, but it sounds like it's helping. Are you attempting a restart?

 

[Re-Ride]

I assume you are on a MWF protocol. That didn't work for me on mono. Since you're getting a marked response so fast I might drop down on the dose and go with EOD. Review Dr, Saya's posts on here regarding dose vrs. time for serum peaks. It takes weeks for the Leydigs to waken. They either enlarge or increase in number. Taking more hCG than required to accomplish this only has disadvantages.

After the Leydigs are restored you want the lowest steady state of activation by hCG to keep them pumping out endogenous T. Healthy non-hypogonadic men produce LH in pulses throughout the day. Low steady state activation is the next best thing.

How fast a man clears hCG varies. Based upon your pronounced early response to 300 IU you might want to ask your doc about EOD at ( stab in the dark) 175 IU. You'll know pretty fast if that's working. It's easier to go up than down.

My experience was that the endogenous T produced disappeared very quickly, in a matter of hours, and I was cyclically crashing T on long interval hCG dosing. I wouldn't recommend anyone on mono exceed 72 hr dosing with most anecdotally requiring EOD or daily.

 

[lookingforhelp]

I wouldnt say I feel amazing just yet. Do you still think I should lower the dose?

I was wondering if it was too low of a dose as I seem to have slightly smaller testicles and not as much semen as before?

Definately feel better than I have done for the last two years though. But I really was in a bad way.

I think the crashes you are describing are similar to what Im experiencing. I seem to have hours of feeling good then some old symptoms returning. Im still really pleased that Ive experienced some change as it gives me so much hope of getting better.

 

[CoastWatcher]

You're only two days into your treatment, and you are considering lowering the dose? Re-Ride makes excellent points, all the more so as he had his own experience with this mode of therapy, but I'd be cautious about making changes too quickly. When do you see your doctor for first follow up?

 

[lookingforhelp]

I think I'm going to stick with this dose for now. I defnately have mini crashes like reride though.

The best times seem to be a few hours after injecting and the day after for a few hours after waking. Ive read studies regarding the peaks of HCG and this seems to correlate with whats happening with me.

Im having blood tests done in a few weeks and then I will be having having a follow up with my Doc.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

That is a very low dose for monotherapy.

What was your T level before you started? Why do you think you had low T at 26 years of age? Exposure to anabolics, genetic issues, head trauma?

Are you planning to test your T after a few weeks of HCG monotherapy? Are you planning to go on Clomid later? Please expand.

 

[lookingforhelp]

My last Total T level before I started this was around the 400 ngdl mark. I also had below the reference range free T level and a SHBG level of 46 nmol/l. I am away from home currently and dont have exact results on me! I have posted them in my other posts though I think.

I believe my problems stemmed from a head trauma. I was self employed and had my own construction business from the age of 19 and was very successful. After the head trauma I seemed to get worse and worse, not being able to do my job and just generally fatigued and weak.

I then started taking some mens vitamins tablets to try and help the fatigue. These contained saw palmetto and Im not sure but I think that was the straw that broke the camels back in a sense. I really dont know what has caused it but stress, court cases to do with my assault, working from 6am to 6pm in manual labour 6 days a week + going out and partying like a young guy does eventually just broke my system. I have lived this for nearly 3 years now and I am relieved that something has helped so far. Its like finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel!

My Dr is great and initially suggested trying Clomid first but I had my fears and concerns regarding side effects and eye floaters. Because I didnt know what this was when it all happened to me, I thought it could have maybe been the saw palmetto and I read that a lot of Propecia guys didnt do well on Clomid so I decided that I should maybe try to avoid it for now.

My Dr has requested I have bloods done just before Christmas and then to see him to discuss them. He initially said to take 500iu's MWF but then went on to say that if i feel more comfortable I could start off with a lower dose.

If things carry on being a bit unstable I may do 500ius MWF like he originally suggested. I definately am having benefits from the HCG but I dont think its as smooth as a ride as Testosterone supplementation.

I initially wanted to try HCG as it felt like the most natural way to try and boost my T levels. I also felt like it was a good starting point to see if Testosterone and hormonal issues were my problem. It is now quite clear to me that this is my problem and if I have to I will move onto a combo of HCG and TRT. Another concern for me was testicular shrinkage in regards to TRT. In the UK it is much harder to get hold of HCG or a prescription for it! At least now if I do add in Test to my regime I know I can get HCG.

Believe me, in an ideal world I wouldn't be on anything but I have come to the point where I have to do something for my health's sake. I figured I could always try Clomid at a later date.

 

[Re-Ride]

I think I'm going to stick with this dose for now. I definitely have mini crashes like reride though.

The best times seem to be a few hours after injecting and the day after for a few hours after waking. Ive read studies regarding the peaks of HCG and this seems to correlate with whats happening with me.

Im having blood tests done in a few weeks and then I will be having having a follow up with my Doc.

A consult with a doc who has a great deal of experience with hCG could help you on dosing decisions.
Follow your trusted MD's advice over what anyone says in a forum.
With that disclaimer out of the way I'll repeat, "first increase hCG frequency then dose" has been around for a while. No one can predict how much hCG is going to be effective for you personally as there is a wide variation of response among men.

(1) You are young (2) Your baseline snapshot is 400ng/dL which is low for a 26 y.o., hypogonadic to some but not to others.

"500" is often cited as a maximum desirable dose per day. Experts in the field are known to exceed that. It's hard to say if what you are experiencing is a T crash or not. Those on TRT are conditioned to make tiny changes over a long period but that's a different treatment altogether. Both hCG and the endogenous T production it stimulates clear very quickly.

The boost you are experiencing is not likely from increased T alone. Stimulation of CNS LH receptors make you feel better as well.

Taken everything you've said in to consideration increasing the frequency of dosing seems like a sound move to me. You might do well at 175/day or 250-500 EOD. I don't think you're going to require 6 weeks to find out. 1-2 weeks low dose high frequency then ramp up from there on symptom relief. You could experience another marked improvement and that's where you need to stop increasing dose and let things ride as you slowly achieve gains from higher steady state serum T.

 

[lookingforhelp]

I know that my Doc is on TRT himself so I am fortunate that he is very understanding and sympathetic towards symptoms etc. I think thats why he is so open to all of this as he knows one thing that works for someone wont work for another. Not like most endos!

I think you are right in regards to increasing frequency first before dosage. I would prefer to try EOD for a while before increasing to 500iu MWF. If I start feel really rough tomorrow (Sunday, last dose was Friday) then I might decide to inject again. My Dr was writing a letter to my GP to get him on board with blood testing so I dont think it will be right before christmas. Hopefully the week after next! I think by then it will give a good picture of what the HCG is doing for me.

Im really grateful for all your input!

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Lookingforhelp

I am assuming that you are not obese and you sleep well. 400 ng/dL of TT can be increased to over 500 ng/dL with weight loss and proper sleep.

 

[lookingforhelp]

Hi Nelson,

No not obese at all. Infact since I've been ill Ive lost weight. I was never remotely fat to begin with but I have lost muscle mass which I think accounts for the weight loss.

If I lose anymore weight I will start to look ill! I am 6ft4 and weigh 86kg now. I was 96kg before I got ill. I was much more muscular then!

My sleep has not been great for the last 2 years. I suffered with a lot of insomnia which has improved. I think I am sleeping better since being on the HCG.

 

[Vince Carter]

3 days and two shots is an extremely optimistic outlook.

 

[lookingforhelp]

Ive been in the gutter. My symptoms have been awful. I've had some improvement, nothing drastic but its an improvement! From where Ive been I will take that over nothing!
It has shown me that there might be a way out of this nightmare.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Ive been in the gutter. My symptoms have been awful. I've had some improvement, nothing drastic but its an improvement! From where Ive been I will take that over nothing!
It has shown me that there might be a way out of this nightmare.

There is every reason for you to be hopeful.

 

[lookingforhelp]

UPDATE:

It has now been just over a week. Things seemed to have a tailed off slightly, I seem to have passed a sweet spot. I was doing better but started to have some old symptoms come back and some new.

Penis still feels much better than it did however libido has wained a little now. I had what felt like a panic attack a few hours after my last injection on Wednesday and have also noticed maybe a slight swelling in my ankles? Im extremely lean so my thoughts are maybe elevated E2? I also had some insomnia last night, my sleep was doing great, the best I had had in two years. I was so deep in sleep my partner couldnt wake me. With last nights insomnia and the other symptoms I am thinking raised E2. Erections arent as hard either?

I still feel brighter, skin feels better, joints less cracky. In a way I am glad I am experiencing this because if I am right and it is high E2 I will know for the future. I definately know what low E2 feels like and I think that is 10 times worse.

My next bloods are on Monday before my Monday shot.

 

[Vince]

The only way you would know if any of your symptoms may be from high estrogen, is by labs. Which you're having on Monday. Even when my E2 was low, I never felt anything from it, so I assume it was never too low.

 

[lookingforhelp]

Ive had low E2 for a year or so now and for me it correlates with 0 libido, uncomfortable flaccid hang (feels shrivelled up), extreme fatigue, really bad depression, ED. I have read others say the same thing. There were points during that year when things improved slightly and labs at those times showed a slight rise in E2. Ill be interested to see what my E2 is at now! Despite the slight setback with things I dont have the uncomfortable flaccid hang anymore. But I guess this could also be attributed to raised Testosterone too.


Like you say, only labs will tell! Ill keep you updated.

 

[johndoesmith]

Ive had low E2 for a year or so now and for me it correlates with 0 libido, uncomfortable flaccid hang (feels shrivelled up), extreme fatigue, really bad depression, ED. I have read others say the same thing. There were points during that year when things improved slightly and labs at those times showed a slight rise in E2. Ill be interested to see what my E2 is at now! Despite the slight setback with things I dont have the uncomfortable flaccid hang anymore. But I guess this could also be attributed to raised Testosterone too.


Like you say, only labs will tell! Ill keep you updated.

Low E2 is one horrible experience, I wouldn't be surprised if your E2 came up, especially since you said some physical symptoms of low E2 have resolved.

How low was your E2 before HCG?

 

[lookingforhelp]

I think my lowest was around 5 pgml (22-40). Climbed to 12 at one point but stayed that way for around a year. UK Endos say estrogens have no known role in men. Honestly I mentioned low E2 to my last endo (baring in mind he is in charge of a lot of guys TRT) and he said that he didn't know anything about controlling Estrogens and did not bother doing such a thing as there is no known evidence regarding it in men.. He also charged me 250 pounds per appointment. Needless to say I didn't see him again!

Luckily I have a great Dr now!