HCG Anxiety/Insomnia

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lookingforhelp

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I am currently on HCG Mono 300iu MWF.

For those that haven't read my other thread, things were great for a week then tapered off. I started suffering with what seems to be panic attacks coming on around 4 hours after the shot.

I have never suffered panic attacks or anxiety ever like this! Its got so bad I missed my last shot as I am away for Christmas and haven't slept now in 2 days. The constant anxiety in my breathing is stopping me from being able to sleep.

I am not sure what to do. My Dr tested my E2 levels (non sensitive) and they came back at 44 pgml. He then told me to take some armidex to lower the E2. Being cautious as it wasn't a sensitive test (I'm in the UK) I decided to double
Check before I took the armidex. I ordered a finger prick test for e2. I have no idea how accurate these are as I did them at home. It came back as 28 Pgml

Anyway, Before HCG I suffered with low e2 for a year or so. It was below 10pgml on a few occasions. I have read that low e2 causes anxiety but I never suffered like this.

What can be causing this horrific insomnia and anxious chest? I have the armidex with me. Not sure whether to take it or not. The difficulty breathing has been around constantly for 2 days now. Extremely weak and tired and unsure what direction to go in. I've tried magnesium that normally helps my sleep but nothing will stop this!

Is this a high E2 issue or is HCG doing something else to me?

Help would be much appreciated. Hope you are all having a nice Christmas!
 
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Vince said:
HCG is known neurohormone and does act on the peripheral part of the brain and usually provides men with a better sense of well being and improved libido.

I looked at your first post. https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?8890-HCG-Monotherapy-Success-so-far-and-questions
I wish I knew what was causing your anxiety, It sure must be hard to function with no sleep.
Click to expand...

Firstly, thanks for the quick reply, I know it's Christmas and you probably have much more important things to do than answer my thread!

I felt this initially and I'm sure it still does provide benefits for me but I'm unsure as to what is happening with it right now.

I was thinking since my SHBG is fairly high 48nmol/l (15-40) for someone of my age, my free testosterone is too low and since bringing up my low E2 levels it has caused me to become more estrogen dominant? I seem to be retaining water somewhat. I am peeing once a day! And I feel bloated as hell. Like I'm pregnant or something. This comes and goes though. Penis feels uncomfortable too and is trying to crawl back up inside me again.

Before I got ill my SHBG lingered around the 30 mark and keeps climbing.

It's all so strange as I was feeling so much better initially!
 
I think you need to make a decision, stop playing around with HCG. Decide if you would like to be on TRT for the rest of your life or just try to make naturally. Living a clean life.
 
Update:

Skipped my Friday shot and things started to calm down by Saturday evening. I'm not sure if the HCG stimulated my thyroid or adrenals but I was anxious, constantly hungry, heart palps, cold hands and feet. It does say on the medication script may aggregate thyroid adrenal issues. Not sure what to make of it, my thyroid seems to be always at the top end of scale in terms of free t3 and t4.

I shot half of my dose 150ius this morning rather than my 300ius and haven't experienced any bad sides but still feel low again. Will be having bloods drawn again Wednesday.
 
There's a few of us here that don't like HCG for one reason or another, the most of which is that we don't feel any tangible benefit for it. If it's bothering you, you're right to cut the dose, that's logical. Be very very careful with the Arimidex, if you use it at all, start with .25mg per week and no more than that, it's very powerful. A couple of us may have stopped HCG use but that's a topic for another day.
 
I would try to switch to TRT. Are you trying to get your wife pregnant?

Some guys are very sensitive to HCG. Anxiety in some and water retention in others. But most men love it. We are all different.

Is it estradiol-related? Not sure since many guys do not measure their estradiol or report if they feel better after taking anastrozole (low dose, hopefully).
 
As I have been away and the insomnia and anxiety terrible I decided to skip the Fridays shot and lower the Monday shot, I did not want to be feeling shut down whilst I was here so figured I would have to Inject something. Had another terrible night, I've had two hours sleep in the last 3 days. It's this weird wired feeling and strange chest feeling. I have never suffered anxiety or panic attacks in my life so this is all new to me.


It very well could be E2. It's so strange as I felt so much better the first week. The mood and well being, penis hang, energy. That's all faded away now :-/ I honestly thought that was it! I am laying off the armidex for now until I get the bloods back as I really don't want to be dealing with a crashed E2 level now. I think that would about finish me off. No sleep is crushing and begins the vicious cycle of being stuck in a low hormone state.

My dr did prescribe me sustanon before the HCG (I didn't take it) however I have heard this is usually a once every week/2weeks. From the knowledge I've gained from this site, I don't want to be doing that. In your opinion, Nelson and Vince's, what is the best and most successful testosterone supplementation to begin with? I am talking about shots. Not interested in the gels as I have a young daughter and fear cross contamination.

In your regards to your question about getting my wife pregnant Nelson, we aren't currently trying and won't be for some time. We are blessed with a 10 month old daughter. We do want one more at some point but we are more than thrilled with her for now! That's why I am not too concerned about fertility right now, I just want to be well so I can provide for my family.

Hope you all had a nice Christmas and I hope you are feeling better Nelson! You are an inspiration to keep fighting! Thank you.
 
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?3490-Eliminating-the-Top-Causes-of-Insomnia

apparently this can help get a lid on things. To be honest i am literally suffering exactly what you explain above. Down the the water retention, and the insomnia hyper feeling. If i didnt know any better id say i wrote that. Anyway please do tell me how you got along. Did you improve? and how? hope your alive chap!!


For me i got this on 250mg every 12 days of enanthate and stopped after a month of bad sleep and anxiety out the ass!! it took 3.5 weeks for anxiety to subside, which is right now that im speaking to you. Also my sleep has slowly improved abit! I still take sleeping meds at the moment but i can sleep for 6.5 hours maybe 7, down from 2 hours and waking up every few minutes in a fit of FIGHT OR FLIGHT.

It was the most hellish experience, my resolve has been to simply discontinue therapy!! It seems some people are really sensitive, nobody can give me a streight answer.
 
It's not been long but I lowered my dosage of HCG and it has helped a lot. Not sure if it was E2 related so I decided to get another test done and of course, to see if it was E2 I had to inject my prescribed dose again. I had exactly the same symptoms, the whole chest tightness and crap sleep again so there is no doubt in my mind it was the HCG that is doing it, by what method I have no clue. Waiting on be lab results, I think I'm going to switch to TRT soon as I've gone down hill again.

I think I have low free t due to my high SHBG and I don't think HCG helps in this regard. The only thing I can say about HCG is I do get an energy boost and my clicking hips and joints have ceased. I put this down to more E2.

ill keep you posted and hang in there! I hope to live a normal life again one day.
 
lookingforhelp said:
As I have been away and the insomnia and anxiety terrible I decided to skip the Fridays shot and lower the Monday shot, I did not want to be feeling shut down whilst I was here so figured I would have to Inject something. Had another terrible night, I've had two hours sleep in the last 3 days. It's this weird wired feeling and strange chest feeling. I have never suffered anxiety or panic attacks in my life so this is all new to me.


It very well could be E2. It's so strange as I felt so much better the first week. The mood and well being, penis hang, energy. That's all faded away now :-/ I honestly thought that was it! I am laying off the armidex for now until I get the bloods back as I really don't want to be dealing with a crashed E2 level now. I think that would about finish me off. No sleep is crushing and begins the vicious cycle of being stuck in a low hormone state.

My dr did prescribe me sustanon before the HCG (I didn't take it) however I have heard this is usually a once every week/2weeks. From the knowledge I've gained from this site, I don't want to be doing that. In your opinion, Nelson and Vince's, what is the best and most successful testosterone supplementation to begin with? I am talking about shots. Not interested in the gels as I have a young daughter and fear cross contamination.

In your regards to your question about getting my wife pregnant Nelson, we aren't currently trying and won't be for some time. We are blessed with a 10 month old daughter. We do want one more at some point but we are more than thrilled with her for now! That's why I am not too concerned about fertility right now, I just want to be well so I can provide for my family.

Hope you all had a nice Christmas and I hope you are feeling better Nelson! You are an inspiration to keep fighting! Thank you.
Click to expand...


I just wanted to stress that be it HCG mono, TRT, or anything else hormonal, you'll work against things but shotgunning treatment. Skipping here, changing dose there, in rapid succession, from one day to the next is a recipe for failure. Im eager to see what test results you receive but given that you've been up and down on treatment, the results are going to be speculative at best.
 
Vince Carter said:
I just wanted to stress that be it HCG mono, TRT, or anything else hormonal, you'll work against things but shotgunning treatment. Skipping here, changing dose there, in rapid succession, from one day to the next is a recipe for failure. Im eager to see what test results you receive but given that you've been up and down on treatment, the results are going to be speculative at best.
Click to expand...


I agree with you entirely Vince. I had to lower the dose as I had not slept in a few days and I was in a foreign country! it was also Christmas and I didn't want to ruin the whole thing for my family. I lowered the dose to function. There wasn't much I could do whilst I was away from my Dr and everywhere is closed over the holidays.

I believe like you that it is imminent failure if there is no clear plan of treatment and it is not stuck too! From research and talking to others, it is my understanding that HCG mono is not usually that successful and men do better on TRT + HCG. For me, it's been a long road and I just want to get well and I figured if the HCG isn't doing it then maybe adding in some T to my protocol will help, I'm not expecting no silver bullet, I just want to function a little bit better and most importantly, have the energy to be the best Dad I can be!

I am hoping this will be my year! And I pray for some relief of my symptoms.

Happy New Year all.
 
lookingforhelp said:
I agree with you entirely Vince. I had to lower the dose as I had not slept in a few days and I was in a foreign country! it was also Christmas and I didn't want to ruin the whole thing for my family. I lowered the dose to function. There wasn't much I could do whilst I was away from my Dr and everywhere is closed over the holidays.

I believe like you that it is imminent failure if there is no clear plan of treatment and it is not stuck too! From research and talking to others, it is my understanding that HCG mono is not usually that successful and men do better on TRT + HCG. For me, it's been a long road and I just want to get well and I figured if the HCG isn't doing it then maybe adding in some T to my protocol will help, I'm not expecting no silver bullet, I just want to function a little bit better and most importantly, have the energy to be the best Dad I can be!

I am hoping this will be my year! And I pray for some relief of my symptoms.

Happy New Year all.
Click to expand...

I've been there, knowing that I needed to stick with a protocol for 6 weeks in order to do labs, but just feeling so awful and unable to function that I had to make changes before getting there.

Good luck getting your protocol sorted out.
 
Okay, here is my latest bloodwork.


Total T: 518 ng/dl
SHBG: 46 nmol/l (15-40)
Estradiol: 41 pg/ml
Cortisol: 477 nmol/l (138-620)
Albumin: 49g/l (35-50)
Prolactin: 221 miu/L (50-400)

My insomnia and anxiousness is terrible. Its like heart palps and inability to fall asleep constantly. I sleep around 2 hours since I lowered the dose of HCG and I am still at that E2 level.

I am currently doing 150ius twice a week. I had to lower it because the sides are just amplified if I go back to the 300ius MWF.

My thoughts... When I first started to get ill I had this horrible insomnia. At that point my E2 was around 30. Over time my E2 got lower and lower and my ability to sleep was better but still not great. It got worse and worse when it was very low.

I feel like my body was almost trying to correct itself by lowering my E2. When I was healthy my SHBG was around 25-30 nmol/l. Whats strange is that from my understanding when E2 lowers so does SHBG usually. Even with tanked E2 levels my SHBG has stayed the same or higher.

I recently read a study regarding SHBGs higher affinity for Testosterone than Estradiol.

[url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15509641
[/URL]

I am thinking that there is some issue with my body in regards to SHBG. I dont know why it is this high at my age of 26.

If the Free Testosterone calculators on the internet are correct, my Free T sits at 8.24 ng/dL = 1.59 %

This does not seem that great, I am most likely estrogen dominant. I have puffy nipples, insomnia, hot flashes, ED, no sleep or night time wood, weak, fatigued.

I am wondering whether I should start an AI that my Dr prescribed me, or just talk to him about going onto a lower dose of HCG and mixing some T into my protocol.

Your advice would be really appreciated. Its fair to say I feel like S*%it right now.

Thanks again
 
I hate to say this since it may not be what you want to hear, but you are assuming that your insomnia and anxiety issues have to be caused by hormones. Lack of sleep is strongly linked to anxiety and vice versa. What is your primary care doctor telling you? How is your stimulant consumption and your current stress due to work or family issues? How long have you had anxiety in your life? Are you taking any other meds? I could go on with questions.

Have you considered just remaining on basic TRT of 100 mg/week without HCG?

Have you considered trying a SSRI to decrease your anxiety and improve your sleep?
 
Nelson Vergel said:
I hate to say this since it may not be what you want to hear, but you are assuming that your insomnia and anxiety issues have to be caused by hormones. Lack of sleep is strongly linked to anxiety and vice versa. What is your primary care doctor telling you? How is your stimulant consumption and your current stress due to work or family issues? How long have you had anxiety in your life? Are you taking any other meds? I could go on with questions.

Have you considered just remaining on basic TRT of 100 mg/week without HCG?

Have you considered trying a SSRI to decrease your anxiety and improve your sleep?
Click to expand...

I have never suffered with anxiety or insomnia before I began suffering with my sexual symptoms and fatigue. The only time I have ever suffered anxiety is with this HCG mono protocol. The first time I ever experienced insomnia was when all my sexual symptoms began. I used to sleep like a baby before. This was when my system crashed, whether it was a head injury i suffered a year or so before, or saw palmetto in a vitamin pill, I don't know. But whatever it was, I just woke up one morning and it all started. I admit I had been losing energy and ability for some time before the sexual symptoms became apparent.




I do not drink tea/coffee or any caffeine related foods or drinks since I became ill. I eat a gluten free diet with lots of fresh fruits, vegetables fish and meat. Never anything processed other than some plain chocolate which I sometimes have as a treat. I only drink water and haven't had alcohol in god knows how long (unfortunately).

I have not worked in 2 years since this all happened, my profession is in the construction trade and I aim to have my strength and health back so I can go back to it. Family life is great, I have a beautiful fiance and daughter. I just want to be well!

I am thinking about going onto TRT and see how that goes. My Dr will give me access to Clomid aswell which is rare for the UK! So if all of this does not work at least I know I can attempt to restart my system. I know my age and everything people will suggest otherwise, but I am sick of being sick. TRT was a last resort for me once I had tried everything else. Ive got my diet nailed, and I exercise what I can (only light at the moment as I dont have the energy). I am lean and not overweight. I have given my body the right building blocks and still stuck in the same position.

I really appreciate your advice and help Nelson, but I have had issues with prolactin in the past going above range so I am not really into the idea of taking an SSRI. I also do not want to add anything into the mix that could potentially harm me sexually even more.

From your vast experience, do the symptoms I described in my previous post sound like raised E2 levels? I know E2 gets a lot of easy blame for symptoms...but I have never suffered this badly before. This is the highest my E2 level has ever been so it sort of feels obvious to me that these symptoms must tie in with it, especially as it is so well known of HCG's effect on estrogen.
 
Last edited:
I am so sorry that you are feeling so bad that you have not been able to work. I am glad that at least things at home seem good.

I did not know you had a head injury. Do you have LH, FSH, TT and FT numbers before HCG?

Your estradiol is 41 pg/ml using the old test that over estimates E2. It is not your estradiol. I would focus my energies elsewhere.

150 IU HCG twice per week puts you in a hypogonadal state. Too low!


I would just stop HCG and just start 100 mg per week of T. If you are going to use Clomid be careful to use doses lower than 50 mg/day. Some men do well on 12.5 mg per day.

I chew on 3 mg melatonin tablets before dinner and sometimes take zolpidem. If I was you, I would focus on your sleep since your anxiety will not get better without proper sleep. Also, I find out that when I do not exercise to be tired by the end of the day, I pay the price at night by not sleeping as well.


Here is a good article written by my friend Dr DiPasquale:

Sleep is Anabolic- By Dr Mauro Di Pasquale


Also, low dose Zoloft can do wonders through a rough patch. Anxiety decreases and sleep quality improves. Even if orgasms are not as good while you are on it, would you not want to have your life back first and put sex as a second priority for a while? Being inside at home without work in a cold climate can screw up any sane man's head!

I am sure many guys here will have comments on this.
 
Nelson Vergel said:
I am so sorry that you are feeling so bad that you have not been able to work. I am glad that at least things at home seem good.

I did not know you had a head injury. Do you have LH, FSH, TT and FT numbers before HCG?

Your estradiol is 41 pg/ml using the old test that over estimates E2. It is not your estradiol. I would focus my energies elsewhere.

150 IU HCG twice per week puts you in a hypogonadal state. Too low!


I would just stop HCG and just start 100 mg per week of T. If you are going to use Clomid be careful to use doses lower than 50 mg/day. Some men do well on 12.5 mg per day.

I chew on 3 mg melatonin tablets before dinner and sometimes take zolpidem. If I was you, I would focus on your sleep since your anxiety will not get better without proper sleep. Also, I find out that when I do not exercise to be tired by the end of the day, I pay the price at night by not sleeping as well.


Here is a good article written by my friend Dr DiPasquale:

Sleep is Anabolic- By Dr Mauro Di Pasquale


Also, low dose Zoloft can do wonders through a rough patch. Anxiety decreases and sleep quality improves. Even if orgasms are not as good while you are on it, would you not want to have your life back first and put sex as a second priority for a while? Being inside at home without work in a cold climate can screw up any sane man's head!

I am sure many guys here will have comments on this.
Click to expand...

I have had numerous tests over the last couple of years for LH and FSH.

When I first got ill:

LH: 7.7 iu/L
FSH: 3.2

Then over the years randomly:

LH: 4.5 iu/L
FSH: 3.2

Then before going on HCG:

LH: 3.2 iu/l
FSH: 3.1 iu/l

Testosterone has stayed the same around all of these. between the 400-550 ng/dl. Does not seem low but bare in mind I have higher than average SHBG for my age and I am very symptomatic!

Thats what I thought regarding the E2 test. One thing I can say regarding E2, is that since it has raised, my hips and joints do not hurt or click anymore! I just have more muscle aches and pains now? Can I be 100% sure it is not a sensitive test? I may contact the lab but not sure what to ask them.

I am going to mention to my Dr about switching to T. I do believe HCG has benefits and I want to be as optimal as I can, backfilling all my hormonal pathways, but if it does not suit me it does not suit me. Maybe I will try and re-introduce it again at a later point.

I have been trying to find melatonin tablets in the UK but seems difficult. They are not available over counter. I asked my GP and they only give out hardcore sleeping medication which I am not comfortable taking, I dont want my body to rely on those. I have seen Biovea do melatonin tablets online, they seem like a decent company. Do you use the time release version Nelson?

Thanks for the link, I will have a read through now! I think for me the worst thing in all of this for me is low libido and never ever having a spontaneous erection anymore and low senstivity. I feel like I am asexual sometimes which is not nice! It could not get much worse but meds like Zoloft still concern me a little. I might get to the point of taking it, I will never say never. If I get my hormones optimised and still no better then I will look into stuff like this.

If you do not mind me asking Nelson, what levels were you pre TRT and what levels do you feel best and optimal at? T, Free T and E2? I am sorry if this is posted somewhere else! And of course, if you dont wish to discuss I understand.
 
Beyond Testosterone Book by Nelson Vergel
Nelson Vergel said:
It seems that you are right about melatonin being a prescription in the UK (that is crazy). But I found this on amazon uk.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Melatonin-...UTF8&qid=1483734096&sr=1-2&keywords=melatonin


My TT ranges from 900-1300 ng./dl,FT 2.5% E2 25-50 pg/ml

We have not mentioned your TSH, free T3 and free T4. Do you have those?
Click to expand...



Yes it is crazy. It baffles me how they can hand out strong sleeping pills rather than a natural hormone. It just does not make sense!

Thanks for the amazon link!


Wow, that really is optimal! Is that E2 level the sensitive assay?

Before I went near correcting my testosterone, I paid particular attention to my adrenals and thyroid. I got interested in the whole adrenal fatigue thing and had numerous saliva testings. It came back low throughout the day the first time but once I had corrected my diet (less inflammation) things seemed to improve. I was suffering with cold hands and feet and other numerous things. Since going gluten free this has resolved. Funnily enough, I tested positive in a blood test for celiac and I also had genetic testing which showed me a carrier for the gene. My father has autoimmune gut issues so I figured eating the healthiest I can will aid me in the future. I found numerous studies regarding prolactin and celiac disease so I thought this might be my issue. My prolactin has also come down significantly since going gluten free!

My thyroid labs have always been the top of the range. I have had Free T3 and Free T4 tested numerous times and they have literally been at the top. My TSH has also remained below 2. I had my Reverse T3 tested which was high, my endo at the time attempted to clear this with T3 medication but it didnt do much other than raise my already high SHBG to 54nmol/l.

Since improving my diet all of these things have got better so I figured I had solved the adrenal/thyroid issues. Unfortunately, it has not done much for my T levels which has led me to this point!
 
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