Game over, stopping everything. Have a question...

[JPB]

While TRT typically helps the libido (in the brain), the shutdown of LH has an effect on the health and function of the sexual machinery (groin) in the long-run. Definition of lung-run: varies from person to person.

Sixhouse, I understand your frustration but you are not listening. Quit the hcg. Its not helping and may be hurting. You need your T levels to drop. Hcg keeps you shutdown. For recovery, the timing of hcg is important, there is a small window in which it can be helpful. As things are you may even be insensitive to it at this point so a break will be helpful.

The other poster is correct in the long run it does no matter that much, Just transition to Clomid and wait it out.

 

[HarryCat]

There's always this bro science you read on the internet saying TRT can't be stopped, and is for life but that's just BS. I've asked nearly every doctor I've had over the years, if they've had patients just stop. Their answers were all consistent. They feel bad for a few weeks and most end up feeling better within several weeks. So my point is, don't worry too much.

The guys who say you can't stop are the guys for whom TRT has worked. They feel much better on TRT than they did before so why on earth would you want to stop? These guys would go back to feeling like crap if they did stop.

Unfortunately I'm on of the guys who's gotten no discernible benefit from TRT. I hope some day to try and get off of it, I just can't afford the few weeks of feeling bad until my body readjusts right now.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Here's my concern. The protocol that was prescribed to me was 100% designed for a person who is NOT already using HCG with their TRT. In fact I can't find a protocol anywhere that takes this into account. Not to mention the fact that every Dr. has a different protocol for getting off TRT.

The thinking is, I'm on testosterone, LH production stops, testicles shut down and shrivel up. So they want you to stop the test and do a fairly large dose of HCG to "prime" the testicles... to wake them back up and get them ready to receive LH when your body starts making it again. Ok... but I've been using HCG the whole time. My testicles are already awake and primed. I know this because I had a semen analysis done. So why would I stop the 1,000iu HCG per week I'm doing for 2 weeks, and then do more than double that dosage for 2 weeks? It makes zero sense. And when I asked the PA to explain this to me 5 times on the phone, she couldn't. And instead of saying "I'm sorry I don't have the answer to that right now but I'll find the answer and get back to you," she told me she had to call another patient and hung up on me. Unprofessional and dangerous behavior from a "medical professional" if you ask me.

So now I'm left, as always, to design my own protocol based on my knowledge and experience, which quite frankly is usually more than the medical staff I deal with. My last urologist never heard of using HCG during TRT. I literally had to teach him about it and sit in his office showing him Youtube videos. Then he said "wow, that's pretty cool. Wanna try?" That's a true and very sad story.

I have stopped the testosterone, I'll continue to do the amount of HCG I've been doing (and according to the PA I MUST do it subq because HCG "isn't absorbed when you inject it in a muscle" ), and in 2 weeks I'll begin 25mg Clomid per day for a month and stop the HCG.

I'll report back as I go.

The REAL restart for the HPTA is the clomid. I wouldn’t call the HCG inconsequential, but it is the clomid that restarts from the “top down” (hypothalamus-pituitary-testes). The HCG is more of a bridge while waiting for the exogenous Testosterone to get out of your system (until which time the clomid will not be fully effective). Rest assured, a restart will not fail due to the timing of HCG...two weeks off, etc...a restart will fail either due to poorly functioning HPTA (any component) or the myriad of other factors in modern life that all tend to drag endogenous testosterone production into the gutter.

 

[SixHouse]

The REAL restart for the HPTA is the clomid. I wouldn't call the HCG inconsequential, but it is the clomid that restarts from the “top down” (hypothalamus-pituitary-testes). The HCG is more of a bridge while waiting for the exogenous Testosterone to get out of your system (until which time the clomid will not be fully effective). Rest assured, a restart will not fail due to the timing of HCG...two weeks off, etc...a restart will fail either due to poorly functioning HPTA (any component) or the myriad of other factors in modern life that all tend to drag endogenous testosterone production into the gutter.

Thank you, that helps.

 

[SixHouse]

Update...

My last testosterone injection was a month ago. I continued the HCG for 2 more weeks and on the 2nd week I started the Clomid. Still felt fine. On day 2 or 3 of Clomid I had a headache that would not go away, vision problems, and I felt very cloudy. After 6 or 7 days on Clomid I had a horrible, weird psychological/anxiety event that I have never experienced. I immediately stopped the Clomid and I'd never do it again under any circumstances. That shit is evil.

How long should I really wait before getting blood work done to see what's up? I've heard 1, 3, 6 months depending on which doctor you talk to.

 

[Vince Carter]

We generally see a Clomid atleast in a mono-therapy situation vs restart protocol as 25mg/D as too much, more like 25mg EOD or 12.5mg/D or EOD, something like that as Clomid is pretty notorious for spurring E conversion.

 

[SixHouse]

I was told to do 25mg per day as part of my PCT. Made me want to die. Never again.

 

[Charliebizz]

I'm on 12.5 eod with no sides whatsoever

 

[SixHouse]

I'm on 12.5 eod with no sides whatsoever

Well aren't you lucky!
I'm definitely one of the guys who can't tolerate Clomid at all. Plus I'm usually very prone to side effects when it comes to any drugs. Why are you taking Clomid? Is it alone or part of some other regimen?

 

[Charliebizz]

Lol. If I was lucky I wouldn't be doing any of this crap hahahahaha. I was on trt but no matter what the protocol it induces my old anxiety and panic attacks. So I'm on clomid to get off trt. I've done a few clomid restarts in the past but they haven't stuck. But I'm on low dose ssri it helps with a lot of my symptoms. Only real complaint on ssri alone is body pain. Trt really helped with my back and neck pain but anxiety is not an option.

Have you ever ever tried clomid at 12.5 eod. When I was on 25 everyday it gave me sides.

 

[Charliebizz]

Well clomid raised my t from 300 to 550-900 but when I stopped I eventually came back down to my low normal levels. That said I conceived a child with my low normal t. My natural lh levels are mid range. So my testicles work fine. In the past I used clomid to see if I could get my t numbers up and stay up. This time I'm just using it to get my boys going again faster then cold turkey.

 

[HealthMan]

Gman86-From the time I began TRT to approximately 120 my HCt would go to around 50-51.

I would give blood and my HCT would drop back to 47-48.
The problem is that I had to wait 8-9weeks to give blood again. At the five to six week mark my HCT was back to 50-51.
Not worth the risk for me as my schedule to give blood can be longer due to work.
There was no balance and I had made up my mind that I would not donate any sooner than eight weeks
due to other side effects.

What was your total testosterone and free testosterone with 120mg of testosterone a week?

 

[Smokin Joe]

Charliebizz
I know what you mean about the back and neck pain.
I am 120days off TRT and man the back-neck and joint pain is unreal.
Didn't realize how much exogenous T helped out.

The other two things that I miss is penis sensitivity and strength.
While on TRT my junk was very sensitive and that helped in the bedroom.

12.5mg eod clomid is al that I can do as well. Sides are bad.

 

[Charliebizz]

The trade off wasn't acceptable for me at the moment. Trt negatives for me were tinnitus and constantly hearing my pulse. Anxiety. Increased muscle twitching especially in face and just not feeling consistent. Positives were pain in the body as a whole was reduced. And I agree Penis sensitivity and libido were increased.

I've been in pain so long it's a lot easier to deal with then anxiety. But being that trt did help and now I'm pretty sure low t is a big reason for the pain it's constently in my mind that I have to figure out some way to get t up. But right now trt is not the answer.

 

[Smokin Joe]

It's odd how this TRT affects everyone different.
I never had anxiety-I was on the other end of the spectrum.
I felt to good mentally that I let everything roll off my back
and it seemed to slow me down a bit.
It was a super anti-depressant for me but again to good.
I miss TRT at times and still have not totally dismissed it but I need to be off for a year at least which I have not done so far.
My PSA is at 3.07 and holding which is what it was while on T-I'd like to see if it will come down naturally
Anyway good luck with everything.

 

[Charliebizz]

So you felt fine before trt except libido and ed ? And the. Strength and penile sensitivity were an extra bonus of trt ?

 

[Smokin Joe]

I had border line low free T and not a good sex drive.
My total t stayed around 480-500.
Tired, grumpy and achy a lot of the time.
A little of that now but I am still recovering.
Just had a complete blood panel done so I'll try to post next week.
Curious to see how well my boys are producing.

 

[Charliebizz]

So trt helped all that ?

 

[Smokin Joe]

Yep
Had it not been for my hematocrit I'd still be on it I'm sure.
Couldn't keep my numbers down by giving blood at 8 weeks.

 

[Charliebizz]

Ok just clarifying your other thread was a bit confusing about trt