Freeing Up Testosterone with Average T Levels and/or Higher SHBG

[ResearchIt]

For those of us with average T levels and/or higher SHBG, our bodies are producing enough T, they just aren't using what's there because it is being bound by SHBG and isn't bioavailable.

Why hasn't the pharmaceutical industry focused on producing medications that control (increase/decrease) levels of SHBG? That seems like a more useful approach than TRT in some cases and it would be a gold mine for them.

 

[tareload]

Test Dosage vs Levels for Cycle Recommendation

See first two pages of review article above. Bioavailable (“free” + “weakly bound”) T assay is a very standard result that attempts to measure non-SHBG bound testosterone by precipitating SHBG bound fraction using ammonium sulfate method...

forums.t-nation.com

Test Dosage vs Levels for Cycle Recommendation

Let’s journal club this bad boy. Tissue dependent:

forums.t-nation.com

Test Dosage vs Levels for Cycle Recommendation

Answer here depends on what scheme you buy in Fig 4? What ratio of mechanism 4a vs 4b may be tissue dependent and if could very well be that both fT and SHBG-bound T both contribute to overall intracellular aromatization. Excellent questions and fun to ponder. Thank you! Quickly you find...

forums.t-nation.com

Open question as to whether SHBG-bound T is bioavailable.

 

[Vince]

If you can tolerate Viagra/ Cialis It will lower your estrogen and increase your testosterone levels . Also good levels of magnesium will improve your free testosterone.

 

[Lumalux]

If you can tolerate Viagra/ Cialis It will lower your estrogen and increase your testosterone levels . Also good levels of magnesium will improve your free testosterone.

I have heard reports that Cialis increases T. I have been on 5 mg daily for just over a week and I feel so much more androgenetic. Yeah, my penor is half hard all the time and that feels great at 56 and just having that happen makes me even hornier, but overall I feel like my T is higher. I have experienced this in years past while running Cialis on a daily basis.

 

[Lumalux]

How effective is stinging nettle root in lowering SHBG? I have a ton of it on hand.

 

[Systemlord]

Why hasn't the pharmaceutical industry focused on producing medications that control (increase/decrease) levels of SHBG?

R&D costs, there needs to be a return on money spent and future profit potential.

 

[sammmy]

Trying to "control" SHBG in the hope that would increase free testosterone has proven a pointless exercise, over and over again. Androgens will suppress SHBG but also suppress testosterone and free testosterone.

Supplements claiming to "increase free testosterone" such as nettle, boron, tongkat ali, might increase free T with some meager 10-15% but clinical benefits are rarely felt, and I don't know a single person that keeps using those as primary therapy. They are mostly internet hype.

Anastrozole is documented to increase free testosterone, at the expense of decreasing your estrogen and making you feel like shit. Unlike what bro science over internet claims, estrogen is an important hormone for men too. It is not some genetic mistake of Mother Nature.

 

[Systemlord]

How effective is stinging nettle root in lowering SHBG?

Supplements claiming to "increase free testosterone" such as nettle, boron, tongkat ali, might increase free T with some meager 10-15% but clinical benefits are rarely felt

A lot of the time increases in SHBG are a direct result of declining testosterone. So decreasing the SHBG doesn't change the fact testosterone is declining.

 

[Vince]

Read this.

The Interplay between Magnesium and Testosterone in Modulating Physical Function in Men

The role of nutritional status as key factor of successful aging is very well recognized. Among the different mechanisms by which nutrients may exert their beneficial effects is the modulation of the hormonal anabolic milieu, which is significantly reduced with aging. Undernutrition and anabolic...

www.hindawi.com

 

[DragonBits]

A lot of the time increases in SHBG are a direct result of declining testosterone. So decreasing the SHBG doesn't change the fact testosterone is declining.

If that happens with you, it does not appear a common event. With my own blood test, shbg went up when my total T was high.

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As total Testosterone increases, we tend to see an increase in SHBG. Conversely, with low total testosterone, we tend to see a decrease in SHBG. This is likely to maintain a more stable level of free Testosterone.

TRT, SHBG & Health - Facts, Questions and Evolution - The Men’s Health Clinic

If you’re on TRT, you’ve more than likely heard of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). But have you wondered what it is, what it does,...

themenshealthclinic.co.uk

 

[Cataceous]

If that happens with you, it does not appear a common event. With my own blood test, shbg went up when my total T was high.
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As total Testosterone increases, we tend to see an increase in SHBG. Conversely, with low total testosterone, we tend to see a decrease in SHBG. This is likely to maintain a more stable level of free Testosterone.
...

They have the causality backwards. Keep in mind that the body is basically regulating free testosterone, and those of us on TRT are doing something similar by taking fixed doses at regular intervals. So in these thought experiments it's reasonable to assert that free testosterone is held constant. Under these circumstances an increase in SHBG causes an increase in total testosterone, while a decrease in SHBG causes a decrease in total testosterone. Contrary to popular belief, a change in SHBG in isolation likely does not affect free testosterone at the new equilibrium.

However: Androgens do tend to lower SHBG. it's very common for guys starting TRT to see major reductions in SHBG. The increasing free testosterone has this effect on the liver. Estrogens are the opposite; increasing—free—levels tend to increase SHBG. Those of us who experience very low estradiol will often see SHBG greatly reduced as well.

For those of us with average T levels and/or higher SHBG, our bodies are producing enough T, they just aren't using what's there because it is being bound by SHBG and isn't bioavailable.
...

If your free testosterone is low then you are not making enough testosterone. Production is what drives free testosterone. Total testosterone just goes along for the ride, effectively a dependent variable of free T, SHBG, albumin, etc. The free hormone hypothesis is still hanging in there. Yes, there is added complexity involving the binding proteins, but free testosterone correlates well with outcomes.

 

[Systemlord]

If that happens with you, it does not appear a common event.

No this didn't happen with me, both Free T and Total T declined. Both declined do to diabetes which reduced testosterone production and the production of SHBG. Had I been on say a medicine that increases SHBG, my testosterone production still would have declined.

 

[bixt]

Generally speaking, your body cannot measure TT. It can only "see" FT. If you artificially reduce your SHBG somehow, your body would sense the resultant high FT and immediately drop production, so that the FT remains as it originally were.

If you were to do an after blood test, you will find FT is the same, SHBG is lowered (because you did so artificially) and TT is lower.

The original question should instead be, "how can I change the set point for FT in my hypothalamus, so that it targets a higher FT"

 

[Cataceous]

Generally speaking, your body cannot measure TT. It can only "see" FT. If you artificially reduce your SHBG somehow, your body would sense the resultant high FT and immediately drop production, so that the FT remains as it originally were.
...

However, it's not necessary to vary the testosterone production rate, because that rate is directly and proportionately determining free testosterone. In other words, even a guy on TRT who sees a reduction in SHBG does not experience a change in free testosterone if he maintains the same dose rate.

...
If you were to do an after blood test, you will find FT is the same, SHBG is lowered (because you did so artificially) and TT is lower.
...

Yes.

...
The original question should instead be, "how can I change the set point for FT in my hypothalamus, so that it targets a higher FT"

Exactly. SERMs can do the job, but they can also reduce estrogenic activity where it's needed and increase it where it's not needed.

Guys on TRT can simply increase the dose to increase free testosterone. In theory you could have this paradoxical effect where in doing this the higher free testosterone pushes down SHBG enough that total testosterone actually decreases.

 

[ResearchIt]

I really appreciate all of the comments and links. I am new here and am still learning.

 

[ResearchIt]

The original question should instead be, "how can I change the set point for FT in my hypothalamus, so that it targets a higher FT"

Yes this is the question I should have asked! Is there an answer to that question for my situation?

I have no health problems, fit, 13% body fat, sleep well, eat well, no drugs, no smoking, no alcohol, no porn, no cardiovascular problems, Total T range of 600-800, normal T to DHT and E2 conversion, high range DHEA, low range prolactin, low range cortisol, normal thryoid, but higher SHBG.

 

[Golfboy307]

Agree with Cat... My SHBG was near 50 when my natural T was in the 300's. Once I started on a solid TRT protocol, my SHBG is in the low 30's with TT of 800.

 

[Anonymon]

My SHBG has always been around 26, before and during TRT. TRT didn’t seem to budge it. Taking any unbound thyroid med (anything that’s not NDT) doubles my free T and increases my estrogen, but even then my SHBG has remained relatively unchanged.

 

[DragonBits]

Cat?

They have the causality backwards. Keep in mind that the body is basically regulating free testosterone, and those of us on TRT are doing something similar by taking fixed doses at regular intervals. So in these thought experiments it's reasonable to assert that free testosterone is held constant. Under these circumstances an increase in SHBG causes an increase in total testosterone, while a decrease in SHBG causes a decrease in total testosterone. Contrary to popular belief, a change in SHBG in isolation likely does not affect free testosterone at the new equilibrium.

However: Androgens do tend to lower SHBG. it's very common for guys starting TRT to see major reductions in SHBG. The increasing free testosterone has this effect on the liver. Estrogens are the opposite; increasing—free—levels tend to increase SHBG. Those of us who experience very low estradiol will often see SHBG greatly reduced as well.


If your free testosterone is low then you are not making enough testosterone. Production is what drives free testosterone. Total testosterone just goes along for the ride, effectively a dependent variable of free T, SHBG, albumin, etc. The free hormone hypothesis is still hanging in there. Yes, there is added complexity involving the binding proteins, but free testosterone correlates well with outcomes.

Cat so what is your opinions of this 2020 NIH report?

"The level of SHBG was inversely proportional to BMI in both the untreated and the testosterone-treated men (Fig. 1). The relationship between SHBG and total testosterone is shown for the untreated and T-treated men in Fig. 2. As in previous analyses of results in eugonadal men [8, 9, 22], the level of SHBG is highly positively correlated (r = 0.71, p < 0.01) with the total testosterone level in untreated men who presented for evaluation of AOH. On the other hand, there is no significant relationship between the levels of SHBG and total testosterone among men who were being treated with a transdermal testosterone preparation (Fig. 2)."

SHBG and total testosterone levels in men with adult onset hypogonadism: what are we overlooking? - PMC

Adult onset male hypogonadism (AOH) is a common clinical condition whose diagnosis and management are controversial, and is often characterized by a low level of SHBG, but our understanding of why testosterone levels are low when SHBG is low is ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Now my own tests results I did have higher shbg when my tot T was high, BUT that was only 2 examples a few months apart, and in total I only have 8 tests that included SHBG with Total T. Most of the time my shbg is between 35-45, but it did go up that time, BUT I was taking other hormones/supplements, T3/T4, preg and dhea, plus a month earlier I had been taking a prostate sup, so it would well have been any of those items that was really responsible for the increase in SHBG.

This also high lights another concern of mine, the vast majority of research is done on men NOT on TRT, while research on men on TRT is focused on finding problems(HCT, LDL, heart, etc), not on how various supplements/hormones interact.

 

[DragonBits]

My SHBG has always been around 26, before and during TRT. TRT didn’t seem to budge it. Taking any unbound thyroid med (anything that’s not NDT) doubles my free T and increases my estrogen, but even then my SHBG has remained relatively unchanged.

This matches what NIH was saying in which I referenced in my most recent post.