First Test C + HCG Dosage Input

[radiationkillsbirds]

I have on-hand the following:
testosterone cypionate
arimidex
clomiphene citrate
hcg


I've been prescribed testosterone by my GP in the past, but it didn't help me at 50mg/week. My GP had good intentions in mind but within just 3 months, this led to loss of sexual function, libido, etc. Worried about fertility and feeling much worse than when I started, I came off of it, and through research on my own realized how important hcg/clomid is. I then tried to find another Dr who would help me out (in NYC), and after 3 failed attempts, I gave up. Because apparently if your testosterone is 150ng/dl at age 33, you're fine.... ? I won't get into that, anyway


So now I'm on my own, for the moment, and trying to plan the dosage.


I am planning on running more of a cycle dosage and not a HRT dosage. But I want to keep fertility (wife and I are trying for our first baby), so my main question is dosage of hcg and test c when taken together.


33 Years old, 205lbs.

 

[Vince Carter]

Of course we welcome you here and hope that you'll find a place here but be aware that this isn't a steroid forum nor how to cycle this that and the other, it's a mens health and HRT site. TNation might be more what you're looking for.

 

[radiationkillsbirds]

Of course we welcome you here and hope that you'll find a place here but be aware that this isn't a steroid forum nor how to cycle this that and the other, it's a mens health and HRT site. TNation might be more what you're looking for.

I understand you 100%, but I am on this forum and not the others by intention. My goal is to have a high quality-of-life while being fertile. My T levels have been in the low-to-mid 100 range since I was 28, and it's led to anxiety, weight gain, stress, depression, loss of sexual performance, loss of confidence. All of those things.

I'm not a body-builder, nor an athlete who can use this as a competitive edge. I'm simply a 33 year old guy trying to re-balance my hormones while staying fertile.

I am not asking about sources, etc. All I need is some input on people who are on testosterone + hcg on their dosing numbers.

 

[FeelingLost]

I have on-hand the following:
testosterone cypionate
arimidex
clomiphene citrate
hcg


I've been prescribed testosterone by my GP in the past, but it didn't help me at 50mg/week. My GP had good intentions in mind but within just 3 months, this led to loss of sexual function, libido, etc. Worried about fertility and feeling much worse than when I started, I came off of it, and through research on my own realized how important hcg/clomid is. I then tried to find another Dr who would help me out (in NYC), and after 3 failed attempts, I gave up. Because apparently if your testosterone is 150ng/dl at age 33, you're fine.... ? I won't get into that, anyway


So now I'm on my own, for the moment, and trying to plan the dosage.


I am planning on running more of a cycle dosage and not a HRT dosage. But I want to keep fertility (wife and I are trying for our first baby), so my main question is dosage of hcg and test c when taken together.


33 Years old, 205lbs.

Hi RKB, Making babies and injecting T cyp, any dose does not work. you stop making your own T and you stop making sperm.
Mess around with cycle doses and you could become sterile for the rest of your life. There is a reason testosterone a schedule 3 drug. It can f-you up.
Adding HCG might help but most need more. Most of us take HCG to keep our balls fat not to keep our sperm alive.
You should look into clomid and hold off on the T until you have all your babies made.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Here's a great thread, with contributions from Dr. Justin Saya. Fertility isn't a lost goal on TRT - a success story well documented.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...lysis-results-after-adding-FSH-to-TRT-and-hCG

 

[FeelingLost]

Here's a great thread, with contributions from Dr. Justin Saya. Fertility isn't a lost goal on TRT - a success story well documented.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...lysis-results-after-adding-FSH-to-TRT-and-hCG

Cost is around 1,500 a year for FSH alone. Plus TRT and HCG costs.
I believe I would still go the clomid path if babies were my priority.

 

[radiationkillsbirds]

I think theres a disconnect. I used the word cycle and thats my fault. People are thinking superhero dose of 500+mg/week.

When I say cycle I mean more like 250 to 350mg/week.

Ive been legally prescribed T in the past, am not new to this stuff at all, am not playing with it for fun. Im trying to get dialed in so life is good.

Hcg during TRT maintains fertility from everything ive read. It doesnt just keep your balls fat. Again, I dont know first hand but Drs and papers and articles and lots of forumers seem to agree.

Clomid has sucked every time ive tried it. I get eye issues and it makes me feel depressed. Even if the bottom line T number does go up from 150 to 500, I still feel terrible on it.

 

[radiationkillsbirds]

To each their own but money means nothing to me if I cant feel healthy, strong and like a man.

 

[CoastWatcher]

To each their own but money means nothing to me if I cant feel healthy, strong and like a man.

These are decisions only you - and your wife - can make. Just be aware of that your options may actually be wider than you thought.

You are right: the term "cycle" is pretty much a flashing red-light here at EM. Thank you for clarifying your goals and intentions.

 

[radiationkillsbirds]

I don't agree with this at all. You'd have one hell of a time killing yourself with testosterone. I'd argue there would HAVE to be a preexisting condition to make it happen. Alcohol on the other hand it's easy. It's a controlled substance because professional sports are godlike in this country, and congress has always been fed a load of shit about it steroids.

Anyway, OP, it's not clear what your motive is for running a high dosage??? I've experimented just for the sake of it and not bodybuilding. More is better to an extent for me, but high doses make finding the right arimidex dosage very hard, and the rollercoaster ride sucks. Stick in the 100-200mg/wk until you are feeling better! If life is great and you want to experiment just know the risks.

As far as fertility, you can freeze some sperm now. The really conservative approach would be to do a round of clomid first, freeze sperm, and then go to TRT if needed. I'm kinda theorizing here. You should seek out a urologist specialized in TRT and fertility. Mine is, but I'm bot sure where you are located. I know he runs rather high doses of hcg with TRT for fertility. Nothing lower than 1500iu/wk, and he doesn't stick to a static protocol and far as when the dose is given. He's obviously been successful doing this.

I have no pre-existing conditions. As a matter of fact my low T has been ruining my otherwise great health.

Seeking out a Urologist in nyc who wants to prescribe hcg and test in nyc is nearly impossible. Even specialty low T clinics are scared to.

Sure, I could keep knocking doors of Drs until I found the right one, but I dont shit gold, every office visit comes out my pocket.

I have arimidex on hand. Most lifters use .25mg eod. Im not against a healthy level of estrogen, but I do definitely feel like high estrogen would be an issue for me as it has been in the past. Even when my total T was 350 my estrogen was 30. So at 600+ total T level im realistically thinking my estrogwn would be out the roof at 60 or more.


Anyway im basically thinking 300mg test per week. Maybe 1000iu hcg per week and .25g arimidex eod or e3d.

 

[at15]

300 per week is a great dose to balance performance, health, and sides. I've done it many times. Can still make great gains. Ill do 150 mg twice per week along with 100-150 iu hcg daily. No AI of course if you want to healthy!! Must maintain elasticity in your coronary arteries. That estrogen at 50-60 is saving your life. I feel amazing there, only downside is your midsection might not be quite as tight but strict diet can offset that a lot.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I have no pre-existing conditions. As a matter of fact my low T has been ruining my otherwise great health.

Seeking out a Urologist in nyc who wants to prescribe hcg and test in nyc is nearly impossible. Even specialty low T clinics are scared to.

Sure, I could keep knocking doors of Drs until I found the right one, but I dont shit gold, every office visit comes out my pocket.

I have arimidex on hand. Most lifters use .25mg eod. Im not against a healthy level of estrogen, but I do definitely feel like high estrogen would be an issue for me as it has been in the past. Even when my total T was 350 my estrogen was 30. So at 600+ total T level im realistically thinking my estrogwn would be out the roof at 60 or more.


Anyway im basically thinking 300mg test per week. Maybe 1000iu hcg per week and .25g arimidex eod or e3d.

Dr. Michael Rotman in New York is a member of our community and does, indeed, prescribe HCG as part of TRT protocols. http://www.michaelrotmanurology.com

He answers questions here faithfully. You should consider consulting him. https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?9502-Ask-The-Urologist-Anything-(Dr-Michael-Rotman)

 

[Deleted member 16042]

250-350wk is TRT?..

And you want to preserve fertility on this kind of dose?

Um.

 

[madman]

I don't agree with this at all. You'd have one hell of a time killing yourself with testosterone. I'd argue there would HAVE to be a preexisting condition to make it happen. Alcohol on the other hand it's easy. It's a controlled substance because professional sports are godlike in this country, and congress has always been fed a load of shit about it steroids.

Anyway, OP, it's not clear what your motive is for running a high dosage??? I've experimented just for the sake of it and not bodybuilding. More is better to an extent for me, but high doses make finding the right arimidex dosage very hard, and the rollercoaster ride sucks. Stick in the 100-200mg/wk until you are feeling better! If life is great and you want to experiment just know the risks.

As far as fertility, you can freeze some sperm now. The really conservative approach would be to do a round of clomid first, freeze sperm, and then go to TRT if needed. I'm kinda theorizing here. You should seek out a urologist specialized in TRT and fertility. Mine is, but I'm bot sure where you are located. I know he runs rather high doses of hcg with TRT for fertility. Nothing lower than 1500iu/wk, and he doesn't stick to a static protocol and far as when the dose is given. He's obviously been successful doing this.

Testosterone/AAS are not just a controlled substance due to professional sports..............they were schedule CIII since the late 80s/early 90s due to the use/abuse by not only professional athletes in many sports including of course the olympics but also most importantly due to the rampant misuse by young teens and not only the ones whom play sports but the average joe looking to bulk up for vanity reasons (high school kids).

Sure the media went into a senseless frenzy spouting misinformation regarding testosterone/AAS use/abuse and the government ran with it but testosterone/AAS are hormones not vitamins/minerals and they should be a schedule drug due to all the idiots that have no clue what they are doing and are uneducated on the proper/safe use of these hormones especially the YOUNG KIDS!

Of course they will not kill you but they can cause side effects-cosmetic (oily skin/acne,accelerated hair lose in the genetically prone,prostate issues in some,water retention,gyno in the genetically prone), negative effects on hematocrit/hemoglobin,blood pressure,lipids,hormonal dysfunction,fertility issues,psychological issues in some,shrunken testes,negative effects on the heart/cardiovascular system,liver dysfunction/damage(C-17 alpha alkylated orals)

Used properly testosterone/AAS can have many positive benefits in men but there is always the risk of side effects from trt doses and definitely when using/abusing as in supra-physiological doses.

 

[madman]

300 per week is a great dose to balance performance, health, and sides. I've done it many times. Can still make great gains. Ill do 150 mg twice per week along with 100-150 iu hcg daily. No AI of course if you want to healthy!! Must maintain elasticity in your coronary arteries. That estrogen at 50-60 is saving your life. I feel amazing there, only downside is your midsection might not be quite as tight but strict diet can offset that a lot.

What part due you not understand about this being a trt forum?

 

[madman]

I understand you 100%, but I am on this forum and not the others by intention. My goal is to have a high quality-of-life while being fertile. My T levels have been in the low-to-mid 100 range since I was 28, and it's led to anxiety, weight gain, stress, depression, loss of sexual performance, loss of confidence. All of those things.

I'm not a body-builder, nor an athlete who can use this as a competitive edge. I'm simply a 33 year old guy trying to re-balance my hormones while staying fertile.

I am not asking about sources, etc. All I need is some input on people who are on testosterone + hcg on their dosing numbers.

If your t levels are truly in the low to mid 100s than 100-150mg/week would more than likely put your testosterone levels into high/normal physiological range which would be all that is truly needed to experience relief from low t symptoms as long as your other hormones are in a healthy range and yes you will notice improvements in body composition (gaining muscle/strength and losing body fat) as long as diet and training are in check.

If you are set on doing 250+/week that would be considered a light cycle dose not a trt dose and would put your testosterone levels well into the supra-physiological range as in (peak and trough).

 

[at15]

What part due you not understand about this being a trt forum?

your on a mild cycle right now like 90% of this forum. You stated your trough is 1100-1200 not even close to trt. You need to maintain 600-900, you dont go supraphysiological for even one moment. Of course your gonna feel great on a mild blast year round.

 

[madman]

You serious?

The top end of the physiological range was originally 1200 ng/dl even here in Canada not long ago.

I inject 75mg every 3.5 days....................of course my peak as many others will be supra-physiological (short lived) and injecting every 3.5 days highly doubt my peak will be extreme compared to my trough.

Sure one could argue that trt levels are steady state (albeit still fluctutions) as oppose to natty (natural circadian rhythm where levels peak in the early morning and eventually decline in the late afternoon/early evening) but in no way is being on trt a mild cycle .

Trt is not cycled nor blast/cruise as when one uses/abuses testosterone/AAS for the sole purpose of gaining muscle/strength.

So you are basically saying to a majority of men on trt that have their testosterone levels in the high/normal physiological range are on a mild cycle...........my god!

Hate to bust your bubble but 100-150mg test/week (commonly prescribed for trt) is not going to make one blow up with muscle or turn into He-Man.

To truly experience significant gains in muscle/strength one needs to have their testosterone levels well into the supra-physiological range as in 1800+ ng/dl not 1200.

Sure there are some on trt that need 200 mg/week to attain testosterone levels in the high end of the physiological range but it is not common as 200mg/week is a hefty dose for trt and would put most men in the 1500-1800+ supra-physiological range.

Most using/abusing/AAS looking for significant gains in muscle/strength have testosterone levels 2000+ ng/dl.

 

[Vince]

Dr. Michael Rotman in New York is a member of our community and does, indeed, prescribe HCG as part of TRT protocols. http://www.michaelrotmanurology.com

He answers questions here faithfully. You should consider consulting him. https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?9502-Ask-The-Urologist-Anything-(Dr-Michael-Rotman)

radiationkillsbirds, that's good advice by Coastwatcher. See Dr Rotman and get your live back together. If you do see him, please write a review.​

 

[madman]

I suppose those reasons are debatable as far as what all the factors were, but the legislation was done under a bunch of false information and ignorance. Obviously some steroids are more harsh than others. Test is just a hormone we all have. There are so many things over the counter that will screw you up. Teens drink alcohol so...

I think people get too hung up on the numbers. With anything, including TRT, I focus on the results. My peak or trough is 1400 TT right now. I inject daily so I don't know how much the small fluctuation is. Blood work is outstanding. LDL was a tad high, but the ratio was outstanding as HDL is 75. All symptoms of low T are addressed in me, and I do feel better with numbers this high vs 800 TT. This is from a dose of about 215mg/wk. 500 iu HCG. Not that i matters. Again, results. There are people who need 300/wk for the same numbers. Injecting this same amount once a week would cause a big spike and trough. Who knows what the end result would be health wise? I'm a hell of a lot healthier than I was with low T. Took me 3 years to end up here, and while most regimens have been good, this is best. Ironically I'll probably end up at 200mg/wk and TT of 1200 or so to eliminate the .125mg ai or once a week.

Some of the guys on here seem to truly believe they know more than docs LEADING the advancement of TRT protocols. My doc would be one, and all has been discussed with him.

Of course test is a hormone we all have and is essential to a mans physical/psychological health/well being but to say "test is JUST a hormone we all have" is simplistic, as with any hormone -TSH/estradiol/prolactin/cortisol to name a few as well as many others there is such a thing as EXCESS and the side effects that come along with it.

You are right that people get too caught up on numbers but understand that the purpose of trt is physiological replacement of ones hormone to provide relief from low t symptoms and having ones levels in a healthy range whether mid/normal or high/normal of the physiological range is all that is required.

Many men experience relief from having trough levels just above 500 ng/dl and others need to be in the upper end of the physiological range but I highly doubt anyone needs to be above the top end of the physiological range to improve low t symptoms otherwise there are some other issue causing them dysfunction-thyroid/adrenals/underlying health issue.

Most healthy young males levels peak at 800-1000+ and that is short-lived due to the fluctuations of the natural circadian rhythm as levels decline in the late afternoon/evening. On average if you look at a 24hr cycle they are around 600 ng/dl.

I am not denying that you feel your best at the levels you are running and that you will have any negative issues as you stated your blood markers are closely watched and in a healthy range.

Sure there are men whom need 300 mg/week to reach those numbers but it is extremely rare.

I have no issue with anyone who wants to run at higher levels as long as one is smart enough to stay on top of their blood work and make health their number one priority.

What I have an issue with is testosterone levels beyond the physiological range are not needed to experience improvements in low t symptoms. You hear it all the time when people come on the forums "well if testosterone is a natural male hormone" than the more must be better mentality seems to be the norm.

A majority of healthy young males function exceptionally well at 600-800 ng/dl so why would a grown man need to be much higher.

My levels run at 1100 on average and I feel great...............sure I could more than likely try dropping down to 600-800 and may very well feel good but I would definitely not run higher levels than this nor would I inject more than 150 mg/week unless my sole purpose was to gain muscle/strength.

To each his own but people need to understand that yes testosterone is essential but EXCESS is in no way needed!