FIRST MONTH on ENCLOMIPHENE – NO CHANGE

[mcs]

Started on 12.5mg/day on July 26. Rx from Empower Pharmacy. Took my dose first thing in the morning with water only.

After 27 days, no change at all in total (443), free or bioavailable T nor any change in E2, FSH/LH. I also expected to see a drop in IGF-1 since enclomiphene is supposed to lower it, but it actually increased.

Could I be a non-responder, should I give it more time or should I double down to 25mg/day and retest in another month?

All input appreciated.

 

[Systemlord]

Started on 12.5mg/day on July 26.

That’s a low dosage, you need to bump it up.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Started on 12.5mg/day on July 26. Rx from Empower Pharmacy. Took my dose first thing in the morning with water only.

After 27 days, no change at all in total (443), free or bioavailable T nor any change in E2, FSH/LH. I also expected to see a drop in IGF-1 since enclomiphene is supposed to lower it, but it actually increased.

Could I be a non-responder, should I give it more time or should I double down to 25mg/day and retest in another month?

All input appreciated.

No change in LH is not a good sign. Sounds bunk possibly. You could try taking more but that is pretty suspicious.

 

[TLR]

Started on 12.5mg/day on July 26. Rx from Empower Pharmacy. Took my dose first thing in the morning with water only.

After 27 days, no change at all in total (443), free or bioavailable T nor any change in E2, FSH/LH. I also expected to see a drop in IGF-1 since enclomiphene is supposed to lower it, but it actually increased.

Could I be a non-responder, should I give it more time or should I double down to 25mg/day and retest in another month?

All input appreciated.

When I attempted to come off I did the HCG/ Clomid protocol and my gonadotropins rose and IGF went down as expected….my T level didn’t increase much, but that’s likely due to age and the fact my balls are fried…I was taking 50 mg a day for a month though….you either need to take more or try some from another manufacturer, although Empower has a pretty good reputation for quality.

 

[mcs]

No change in LH is not a good sign. Sounds bunk possibly. You could try taking more but that is pretty suspicious.

 

[PhilM7]

I stopped TRT for about 2 years, and decided to restart it this summer. I have been on Clomid before, and also the cream and the injections. With each one of those protocols, I could tell when it was working because I felt better and had more energy, and I couldn't see my ankle bones anymore due to water retention. My T levels were around 1,000 on all three previous treatments, even when I was taking 25 MG of Clomid.

I started taking 25 MG of Enclomiphene on my recent restart on July 19 from Empower Pharmacy. It has been about 6 weeks and I can't say yet that I feel any different and there are no puffy ankles. I will have a blood test coming up in the next few weeks through Defy, and I will report what the levels are, but I doubt they have risen. My levels were around 600 when I restarted in July. I even opened one of the enclomiphene capsules from Empower to be sure there was something inside, because I thought maybe they were empty. LOL This is the first TRT treatment when I didn't feel any different, nor notice any physical changes. This is my first time trying Enclomiphene, so maybe it is not as potent as Clomid. I'll see what happens but it is interesting to see that someone else noticed the same as what I had noticed.

I was able to get my testosterone to 877 by taking DIM and Fenugreek supplements earlier this year, and even at 877 I still didn't feel great. When I got off those two supplements, my T dropped back to the 600 range, and that's when I decided I would start TRT again.

I have posted my blood test before starting Enclomiphene and then my blood test after being on Enclomiphene and DHEA for about 3 months. You will see that my total testosterone increased from the 600's to the low 1,000's. Unfortunately my Free Testosterone actually dropped a little. I will have a follow up appointment in the coming days/weeks with Defy to discuss. My SHBG went really high. I also had some odd things appear, like high Sodium, Chloride and AST, which are things that I have never had elevated before. I can't say that I feel like Enclomiphene is working since I usually need my Free Testosterone in the upper portion of midrange to get the energy boost I was seeking. I will post later on what the follow up will be. I also started taking 3 fish oil supplements per day to improve my cholesterol, but that didn't seem to work as well as I had hoped. I am going to try Flax Seed oil this time around for cholesterol management.

I also attached my bloodwork from March when I had tried taking DIM at 200 MG per day, along with 3 Fenugreek supplements at 1,200 mg per tablet. That raised my Testosterone levels, but this is Quest lab as opposed to Labcorp on the other tests, so I am not sure the numbers compare correctly due to how labs do testing and the measurement scales they use.

 

[aneuman]

That’s a low dosage, you need to bump it up.

That's not a low dose. Enclomiphene typically goes in 6.25mg, 12.5mg or 25 mg. 12.5mg is standard, After using 12.5mg for a month, my T levels went from 308 to 706 ng/dL, and LH went up to 19.6. After 3 months it went to 1100 ng/dL and LH was >20. That's when I stopped. I was 59 yo at the time.

It could be that in his case, the dosage needs to be upped, but I think it's irresponsible to throw a blanket statement and tell people to change their dosage/medication based on a single post.

 

[mcs]

That's not a low dose. Enclomiphene typically goes in 6.25mg, 12.5mg or 25 mg. 12.5mg is standard, After using 12.5mg for a month, my T levels went from 308 to 706 ng/dL, and LH went up to 19.6. After 3 months it went to 1100 ng/dL and LH was >20. That's when I stopped. I was 59 yo at the time.

I think it's irresponsible to tell people to change their dosage/medication based on a simple post.

Then what else do you suggest when after a month, no change in levels in my case?

 

[aneuman]

Then what else do you suggest when after a month, no change in levels?

Since I am not a medical doctor, the only thing I can suggest is to see a professional. Anecdotally I can tell you that I have friends that have not responded to enclomiphene and their doctors switched them to clomid and are responding very well. I would not know if in your particular case, that's the best course of action or not, but is something that you could talk with your doctor.

Based on my experience and others' in this forum, if it hasn't worked at all in a month it seems difficult to expect it will work at all, not impossible, but difficult, but again, I am not a medical doctor, let alone an andrologist.

If you are seeing a doctor, I suggest you review this with them. Otherwise my advice would be to see one. If you can't or don't want to see a doctor, then I'm afraid I'm not able to give you an advice. I can provide anecdotes, links, general knowledge, and ideas, but I don't think I can do much more than that.

 

[Cynice49]

interesting.... Ive been on 12.5mg daily for about 1.5 months (coming of TRT) and idk whether to think I feel worse/no change from enclomiphene or just coming off T. Testicle size also has not changed majorly.

 

[aneuman]

interesting.... Ive been on 12.5mg daily for about 1.5 months (coming of TRT) and idk whether to think I feel worse/no change from enclomiphene or just coming off T. Testicle size also has not changed majorly.

For enclomiphene to work, The Hypothalamus, Pituitary and testicles (Leydig cells) all must be able to work properly. If one of them is not working, this is unlikely to work.

How long have you been on TRT and at what dose/frequency? It seems the higher the dosage, the more frequent the treatment, and the longer you stay on, the longer it will take for the HPTA to recover, also the higher the likelihood that some of the "component" become "compromised"

As I mentioned earlier, anecdotally, some people respond much better to Clomid for reasons I don't understand.

It could be that a higher dosage, in your case, does the trick. Hard to know without trying.

If your testicles are still able/willing to work, hCG might jump start them, and enclomiphene may be able to work better.

 

[Forty2]

For enclomiphene to work, The Hypothalamus, Pituitary and testicles (Leydig cells) all must be able to work properly. If one of them is not working, this is unlikely to work.

How long have you been on TRT and at what dose/frequency? It seems the higher the dosage, the more frequent the treatment, and the longer you stay on, the longer it will take for the HPTA to recover, also the higher the likelihood that some of the "component" become "compromised"

As I mentioned earlier, anecdotally, some people respond much better to Clomid for reasons I don't understand.

It could be that a higher dosage, in your case, does the trick. Hard to know without trying.

If your testicles are still able/willing to work, hCG might jump start them, and enclomiphene may be able to work better.

I've been taking 20mg enclomiphene eod for the last 6 weeks. Both TT and free T are at top of range. Energy and mood are much better than before, but libido has completely switched off. Libido was low prior to enclomiphene but now it is absolutely zero.
There are no other factors in my life that could be contributing to this complete loss in libido.

 

[aneuman]

I've been taking 20mg enclomiphene eod for the last 6 weeks. Both TT and free T are at top of range. Energy and mood are much better than before, but libido has completely switched off. Libido was low prior to enclomiphene but now it is absolutely zero.
There are no other factors in my life that could be contributing to this complete loss in libido.

I had a similar experience with 12.5 mg every day for 6 months. Mt TT was off the charts, my FT was bottom-half normal.

 

[Forty2]

I had a similar experience with 12.5 mg every day for 6 months. Mt TT was off the charts, my FT was bottom-half normal.

So did your libido also go to zero?
Both my TT and free T are right at the top of the reference range. Estradiol is in a good range. Blood work looks awesome, energy and mood are great, just no interest in sex whatsoever!

 

[aneuman]

So did your libido also go to zero?
Both my TT and free T are right at the top of the reference range. Estradiol is in a good range. Blood work looks awesome, energy and mood are great, just no interest in sex whatsoever!

Yep. Just like that.

 

[Forty2]

Yep. Just like that.

How long did it take for your libido to return to pre treatment level after quitting enclomiphene?

 

[aneuman]

How long did it take for your libido to return to pre treatment level after quitting enclomiphene?

TBH, my problem wasn't exactly "libido" but "arousal" or "sensitivity" which caused a long time to finish. I had those problems prior to EC, but EC did not resolve it and even made it worse.

There wasn't a particular time, since I tried multiple things at multiple dosages and multiple frequencies, such as HCG and HCG plus EC.

HCG made it better but was very unreliable. One moment I thought that 500 IU every 3 days was good, then it stopped working, tried 300IU every day, it worked, then nothing, and so on.

Starting TRT has made some improvements, and it's also dosage dependent. Lower dosages appear to work better in that sense.

Enclomiphene doesn't has a long half life (about 10-12 hours) so if you count half lives it should be out of your system in 60 hours (2.5 days) after you take the last capsule.

One thing most of us fail to understand is that sex (desire, arousal, sensitivity, ejaculation, orgasm, etc) is the result of synergistic work of many systems (sympathetic, para-sympathetic, psychological, etc) and that there are many hormones and neurotransmitters involved, and all have to work flawlessly to get the best out of it. As we get old, some of those "components" start to fail, misfire, become less efficient, etc. Testosterone may help fix one or even several of them, but not all, so we may never really get to the end of the rainbow. There are some thing we have to accept.

The internet is filled with stories about guys who injected 1Kg of testosterone every day and feel like superman, having sex 10 times day with multiple women. It's also filled with beautiful women who are in reality 400 lbs 50 year old men, or generated by AI. Additionally, when the guy that had sex 10 times a day stops posting, one usually assumes that he's so busy with sex that doesn't have time to post, when in reality the guy maybe locked in a basement about to hang himself because he can't get it up, or may have died of a heart attack after injecting 1 Kg testosterone, or maybe it was just ba joker who posted just for the LOLs.

Just saying that we need to manage our expectations, because we may end up being more unhappy than we need to.

As the great British philosopher one said :"you can't always get what you want, but if you try, sometimes you get what you need"

 

[Forty2]

TBH, my problem wasn't exactly "libido" but "arousal" or "sensitivity" which caused a long time to finish. I had those problems prior to EC, but EC did not resolve it and even made it worse.

There wasn't a particular time, since I tried multiple things at multiple dosages and multiple frequencies, such as HCG and HCG plus EC.

HCG made it better but was very unreliable. One moment I thought that 500 IU every 3 days was good, then it stopped working, tried 300IU every day, it worked, then nothing, and so on.

Starting TRT has made some improvements, and it's also dosage dependent. Lower dosages appear to work better in that sense.

Enclomiphene doesn't has a long half life (about 10-12 hours) so if you count half lives it should be out of your system in 60 hours (2.5 days) after you take the last capsule.

One thing most of us fail to understand is that sex (desire, arousal, sensitivity, ejaculation, orgasm, etc) is the result of synergistic work of many systems (sympathetic, para-sympathetic, psychological, etc) and that there are many hormones and neurotransmitters involved, and all have to work flawlessly to get the best out of it. As we get old, some of those "components" start to fail, misfire, become less efficient, etc. Testosterone may help fix one or even several of them, but not all, so we may never really get to the end of the rainbow. There are some thing we have to accept.

The internet is filled with stories about guys who injected 1Kg of testosterone every day and feel like superman, having sex 10 times day with multiple women. It's also filled with beautiful women who are in reality 400 lbs 50 year old men, or generated by AI. Additionally, when the guy that had sex 10 times a day stops posting, one usually assumes that he's so busy with sex that doesn't have time to post, when in reality the guy maybe locked in a basement about to hang himself because he can't get it up, or may have died of a heart attack after injecting 1 Kg testosterone, or maybe it was just ba joker who posted just for the LOLs.

Just saying that we need to manage our expectations, because we may end up being more unhappy than we need to.

As the great British philosopher one said :"you can't always get what you want, but if you try, sometimes you get what you need"

Excellent post.
Were your sensitivity issues caused by SSRIs or Accutane, by any chance?

 

[aneuman]

Excellent post.
Were your sensitivity issues caused by SSRIs or Accutane, by any chance?

Nope. Although I’ve used SSRIs, I can’t say for sure they were the cause. It just started happening. If I were to blame a medication it would be cialis, but I’m not sure either

 

[PhilM7]

I stopped TRT for about 2 years, and decided to restart it this summer. I have been on Clomid before, and also the cream and the injections. With each one of those protocols, I could tell when it was working because I felt better and had more energy, and I couldn't see my ankle bones anymore due to water retention. My T levels were around 1,000 on all three previous treatments, even when I was taking 25 MG of Clomid.

I started taking 25 MG of Enclomiphene on my recent restart on July 19 from Empower Pharmacy. It has been about 6 weeks and I can't say yet that I feel any different and there are no puffy ankles. I will have a blood test coming up in the next few weeks through Defy, and I will report what the levels are, but I doubt they have risen. My levels were around 600 when I restarted in July. I even opened one of the enclomiphene capsules from Empower to be sure there was something inside, because I thought maybe they were empty. LOL This is the first TRT treatment when I didn't feel any different, nor notice any physical changes. This is my first time trying Enclomiphene, so maybe it is not as potent as Clomid. I'll see what happens but it is interesting to see that someone else noticed the same as what I had noticed.

I was able to get my testosterone to 877 by taking DIM and Fenugreek supplements earlier this year, and even at 877 I still didn't feel great. When I got off those two supplements, my T dropped back to the 600 range, and that's when I decided I would start TRT again.

I have posted my blood test before starting Enclomiphene and then my blood test after being on Enclomiphene and DHEA for about 3 months. You will see that my total testosterone increased from the 600's to the low 1,000's. Unfortunately my Free Testosterone actually dropped a little. I will have a follow up appointment in the coming days/weeks with Defy to discuss. My SHBG went really high. I also had some odd things appear, like high Sodium, Chloride and AST, which are things that I have never had elevated before. I can't say that I feel like Enclomiphene is working since I usually need my Free Testosterone in the upper portion of midrange to get the energy boost I was seeking. I will post later on what the follow up will be. I also started taking 3 fish oil supplements per day to improve my cholesterol, but that didn't seem to work as well as I had hoped. I am going to try Flax Seed oil this time around for cholesterol management.

I also attached my bloodwork from March when I had tried taking DIM at 200 MG per day, along with 3 Fenugreek supplements at 1,200 mg per tablet. That raised my Testosterone levels, but this is Quest lab as opposed to Labcorp on the other tests, so I am not sure the numbers compare correctly due to how labs do testing and the measurement scales they use.

If there is a common forum for posting blood tests, please let me know. This seemed the best place for this particular blood test.