I watched a youtube video done by a guy I respect a lot (Virtuous Steve) and he claimed that HCG Leydig cell desensitization is real and HCG shouldn't be used year round to backfill DHEA and Pregnenolone, but supplementing w/pills is a better solution. 25mg DHEA/10mg Preg. I began TRT in addition to HCG at 250iu once per week a year and a half ago using compounded HCG. I switched doctors and was advised to go twice per week and use at least 250iu 2X. I now use Pregnyl (if that matters) instead of compounded. I have a sneaky suspicion that I may currently have this HCG desensitization. Is this a thing? How would I even check it? Measure DHEA and Preg on a bloodtest? I have no idea whether my testicles are the right size as I cannot remember their base size anymore. I asked my wife but she is no help either. My suspicion is due to wild swings in my libido... I have weeks where I need to jerk off/have sex 4 times a day and then I won't think about sex for 2 weeks. Lately it seems like more of the latter and less of the former. Any thoughts?
This subject is debated ad nauseam. There's no hard evidence that desensitization is a real phenomenon, particularly at the doses you're talking about. According to "Torrential" over at PeakT "This all stems from a flawed and misinterpreted rat study in the 40's." I have further said "Possibly contributing to the myth is the fact that dosing hCG too high produces less testosterone than more reasonable doses. See here for a reference."
I used to respond very well to Pregnyl, verified by labs and subjective and objective benefits. Tried Pregnyl not too long ago, and it seemed to have no effect. And been using compounded HCG for years now and it’s like injecting water. Not sure why HCG seemed to stop working for me
What labs? And what objective benefits out of curiousity?
Total test would go up. It would increase around 600 points for every 1000iu’s of pregnyl I would use. DHEA-S levels would jump up a bunch. Progesterone level would jump up a bunch. Objective benefits were that my testicles would noticeably increase in size, my penis would hang better while flaccid, and ejaculate volume would increase. Subjective benefits were that orgasms were more intense (probably due to the increase in ejaculate volume) and libido would increase and penis sensitivity would increase. I notice non of these now while taking compounded HCG. Not even one. No lab differences, and no subjective or objective benefits. Not sure why. Haven’t tried Pregnyl in a while, but the last time I used it, it did nothing for me
I have been using 250iu 2x/week for 5 years. This same dose has kept my balls just as inflated today as they were when I first started using it. So I am not getting any desensitization. I don't have labs to confirm this though. I have always used HCG w/ testosterone, so there is no way to tell on a lab value.
madman
Super Moderator
post #37/38
Playing with HCG gave me libido
I am thinking more like maybe 500 hcg and 250 is too much and increases something very high where you don’t get this libido maybe low than 250 is a key ? I am checking this now I will see how long it will last M.J., what you're finding is also being discussed on this thread as well...
www.excelmale.com
Pros and cons of using TRT vs HCG for treatment low-t symptoms
Human chorionic gonadotropin treatment: a viable option for management of secondary hypogonadism and male infertility (2020) Julius Fink, Brad J. Schoenfeld, Anthony C. Hackney, Takahiro Maekawa & Shigeo Horie Abstract Introduction: Low testosterone and its symptoms is a condition affecting...
www.excelmale.com
* It is currently unknown if long-term administration of HCG can lead to side effects such as gonadotropin resistance
4everyoung
New Member
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I basically suffer from exactly these issues.
I'm currently running 16mg test cyp, 250iu HCG, .03mg Anastrozole and 12.5mg DHEA every day. For the anastrozole I dissolve a 1mg tablet in 1ml of vodka in a syringe and dose it out.
The HCG dose is very high and that worries me a bit. I've been increasing it because my testicle size has decreased significantly and they just don't seem to be responding.
I'll have times where my flaccid size seems ok and my sex drive is up, but currently I have nearly no sex drive and flaccid size is embarrassingly small.
I'd love to hear from anyone else that has had similar issues and uncovered the cause...
I'm currently running 16mg test cyp, 250iu HCG, .03mg Anastrozole and 12.5mg DHEA every day. For the anastrozole I dissolve a 1mg tablet in 1ml of vodka in a syringe and dose it out.
The HCG dose is very high and that worries me a bit. I've been increasing it because my testicle size has decreased significantly and they just don't seem to be responding.
I'll have times where my flaccid size seems ok and my sex drive is up, but currently I have nearly no sex drive and flaccid size is embarrassingly small.
I'd love to hear from anyone else that has had similar issues and uncovered the cause...
Vince
Super Moderator
So are you injecting 250 IU of HCG daily?
4everyoung
New Member
Yup, 250iu/day.
I am thinking today that I might start staggering the injection of the HCG because I think I've noticed that if I go off for a couple days and then take a larger dose I see some positive changes, though I also have to deal with extra acne.
I am thinking today that I might start staggering the injection of the HCG because I think I've noticed that if I go off for a couple days and then take a larger dose I see some positive changes, though I also have to deal with extra acne.
I use Pregnyl and it stays good for a long time. Also, You shouldn't freeze reconstituted hCG. The lyophilized powder is fine to keep in the freezer but not once it's mixed with BAC water.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Can HCG Stop Working After Long Term Use in Men?
LONG TERM HCG- Does it stop working due to testicle Leydig cell desensitization? This study of two people did not show issues after 23 months of high doses: A STUDY OF HUMAN TESTICULAR FUNCTION BY THE USE OF HUMAN MENOPAUSAL GONADOTROPHIN AND OF HUMAN CHORIONIC GONADOTROPHIN IN MALE...
www.excelmale.com
HCG & Leydig Cell Disensitization
As per the title I am hoping some knowledgeable gents on the forum can shed some light on the reality of HCG use causing Leydig cell disensitization and if it does what that means long term. I’m currently using 250IU eod and have been reading on other forums, from people purporting to be...
www.excelmale.com
False
Actually, what I posted is accurate.
T
tareload
Guest
This is absolutely correct.
@equel Please explain your reasoning.
Nice review for those interested:
The freezing step in lyophilization: Physico-chemical fundamentals, freezing methods and consequences on process performance and quality attributes of biopharmaceuticals
Lyophilization is a common, but cost-intensive, drying process to achieve protein formulations with long-term stability. In the past, typical process …
www.sciencedirect.com
Last edited by a moderator:
T
tareload
Guest
More general guidelines.
4everyoung
New Member
This is absolutely correct.
@equel Please explain your reasoning.
Nice review for those interested:
The freezing step in lyophilization: Physico-chemical fundamentals, freezing methods and consequences on process performance and quality attributes of biopharmaceuticals
Lyophilization is a common, but cost-intensive, drying process to achieve protein formulations with long-term stability. In the past, typical process …
The article McBeavy posted doesn't seem to mention anything about freezing reconstituted HCG.
Please explain why you shouldn't freeze it?
I read at one point a lab put reconstituted HCG through multiple freeze thaw cycles testing the potency throughout the process and showed very little loss. I can't for the life of me find that info now though, so take that with a grain of salt.
Everything I'm reading suggests a single freeze thaw cycle won't have much affect on potency, but there seems to be very little data on whether the loss of potency from a single freeze/thaw cycle would be lesser or greater than a given amount of time being refrigerated.
I think most people will probably be fine either way unless you're dosing is so low that it takes the HCG past say 90days in the fridge...but that's just speculation.
On another note, I've started do 500iu injections EoD to see if the fluctuations help with what seems to be symptoms of desensitization or loss of potency or whatever it is that's keeping my testicles from returning to their normal size and causing my flaccid size to diminish so terribly.
I'll try to remember to update with any changes.
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