DHT Gel Effectively Treats Gynecomastia in HIV + Men

[Jerajera]

DHT creams are not legal to make in the US

Nelson, if one got prescribed DHT cream in Europe, would you be able to travel to the US with a prescription for it or is even that illegal?

 

[K.pietera]

Hi There ,

Yes it is the clinic in the UK. I think that if you are allready on TRT and you explain why you would want to give it a try they can help you with that.

I started with DHT Because it is superior than taking mesterolone( proviron ). And for me it helped to boost libido a lot ( also everyday morning erections like a rock !) and self esteem also.

I wished it would help me to lower my estradiol a bit but it didn't for me. Tough I don't believe that estradiol is something bad , I still want to see it a bit lower because I also have a little bit of gyno in my left breast ,but I personally think that is a progesterone or/and prolactine problem because always when one of those is above the standards my gyno flares up or is growing...

I apply the cream on my forearms because I use TRT transcrotal cream on my scrotum and I don't think you can combine the two together at one time.. also Dr George T said I should do it that way.

I use 2 clicks of the DHT 10% One am and one pm. Together with 2 clicks of 20% Testosterone cream on my scrotum also 1 am and 1 pm...

I feel awesome accept my sleep is not good , sometimes hot flashes at night ... Still trying to find the best protocol for me.

 

[Jerajera]

Hi There ,

Yes it is the clinic in the UK. I think that if you are allready on TRT and you explain why you would want to give it a try they can help you with that.

I started with DHT Because it is superior than taking mesterolone( proviron ). And for me it helped to boost libido a lot ( also everyday morning erections like a rock !) and self esteem also.

I wished it would help me to lower my estradiol a bit but it didn't for me. Tough I don't believe that estradiol is something bad , I still want to see it a bit lower because I also have a little bit of gyno in my left breast ,but I personally think that is a progesterone or/and prolactine problem because always when one of those is above the standards my gyno flares up or is growing...

I apply the cream on my forearms because I use TRT transcrotal cream on my scrotum and I don't think you can combine the two together at one time.. also Dr George T said I should do it that way.

I use 2 clicks of the DHT 10% One am and one pm. Together with 2 clicks of 20% Testosterone cream on my scrotum also 1 am and 1 pm...

I feel awesome accept my sleep is not good , sometimes hot flashes at night ... Still trying to find the best protocol for me.

Thanks for the in depth response, I really appreciate it.

The hot flashes are typically a symptom of low Estrogen, it could be from too much DHT. DHT is an Estrogen antagonist at the receptor level (DHT is an estrogen (receptor) antagonist – To Extract Knowledge from Matter) so it's not going to lower your Estrogen levels on a blood test but will still act as an AI.

The cream applied to the scrotum disproportionately increases DHT levels because of the high concentration of 5-alpha reductase enzymes (responsible for converting T to DHT) situated there; it's not uncommon for men on the scrotal cream to have DHT levels 3-4 times over the top of the range.

If on top of that you add pure DHT your DHT levels might be so high that even though your E2 looks pretty high on paper, most of it is antagonized by the DHT at the receptor level, leaving you with some symptoms of low E2.

I'm about to give the scrotal cream a try myself, but if you have access to actual DHT cream it might make sense to get on injections for normal DHT conversion, and use more or less DHT cream to fine tune your protocol if you've never tried something like that.

I know from the "Lifting Dermatologist" guy on youtube that it's really hard to get DHT tested in Belgium but it might be worth it in your case to see what's going on there

 

[K.pietera]

Hi ,


wow thanks for the reply I never taught DHT could do that , I have a follow up phone call with my medical case manager the 16th of may and I will ask about it. If my E2 is really low due to the high DHT I will probaly stop the cream , but if I do would my production of DHT be completely shut down from the few months I used the cream ?

I hope I will still produce it aftherwards...

Ps: If my English is not so good please be kind Like I said I'm from Belgium

 

[Jerajera]

Hi ,


wow thanks for the reply I never taught DHT could do that , I have a follow up phone call with my medical case manager the 16th of may and I will ask about it. If my E2 is really low due to the high DHT I will probaly stop the cream , but if I do would my production of DHT be completely shut down from the few months I used the cream ?

I hope I will still produce it aftherwards...

Ps: If my English is not so good please be kind Like I said I'm from Belgium

No worries

So unless I misunderstood what you said, I just want to clarify that DHT is not produced on its own in your body, whether in your testicles or adrenals. DHT, just like Estradiol, is entirely converted from Testosterone through an enzyme named 5-alpha reductase, equivalent to the aromatase enzyme responsible for converting Testosterone to Estradiol.

Nothing is going to shut down your production of DHT because it's not "produced" per say. The reason the cream applied to the scrotum results in such high DHT levels is that there's a very high concentration of 5-alpha reductase enzymes located there, so a disproportionate amount of the Testosterone is going to be converted to DHT, relative to other parts of your body or administration routes (nasal, injections, oral, etc...).

The other thing is that very high DHT levels might not impact your Serum Estradiol levels on a blood test because DHT doesn't prevent the conversion of T to E, unlike for example an actual aromatase inhibitor such as Arimidex (Anastrozole) or Exemestane (Aromasin).
DHT "competes" (simplification, the article I linked in my previous post goes into more detail) with Estrogen at the receptor level, effectively acting in some ways as an Estrogen blocker, such that you could very well suffer from low E2 symptoms despite having very high E2 levels on a blood test if your DHT is high enough.

Bodybuilders have known this for a long time and often use a DHT-derivative such as Primobolan or Masteron to act as a form of AI and keep a dryer look while preventing side effects such as bloating, gyno and hypertension.

Hot flashes are typically a sign of low E2, which is why post-menopausal women, whose Estrogen levels basically drop to 0, notoriously get them.
Given that you're not only disproportionately converting to DHT from the scrotal application of the cream, but also adding exogenous pure DHT with the DHT cream, I think it's at least worth exploring the hypothesis that your DHT levels could be so high that even though your E2 could look fine (or even high) on a lab result, you would suffer from low E2 symptoms.

There's no way to truly verify this, but if you got your DHT tested and it came back at 5 times the top of the range, it would be reasonable to bring it down a bit and see if that helps.

The reason I'm so excited about this DHT cream is that one of the biggest problem for a large number of men taking exogenous T, is that we don't get three separate knobs to control levels of T, E2, and DHT. Instead DHT and E2 are converted from Testosterone at rates that are for the most part genetically predetermined, with some nurture factors in there (mostly how fat you are, which to some degree increases aromatization).

It's like having an equalizer with Bass Trebble and Middle where every time you move the Bass up, Trebble and Middle also move up in a completely predetermined way. Unless those rates are somehow optimally correlated, you're going to have a really hard time getting the sound you want, it's basically going to be impossible.

But because DHT is a natural Estrogen antagonist and we now have the ability to supplement it independently from Testosterone conversion, we have a lot more separate control on those three knobs (T, E2, DHT).

That's why to me something like a really stable base of injected Test (Test C daily injections, for ex) with some DHT cream as an adjustable add-on to modulate E2, sounds like a good experiment to run. Start with just injections and see how you feel, then add a bit of DHT cream. Do you feel better? Ok, add a little more. Better? Keep going until you start getting low E2 sides, step back a bit and you could potentially find yourself a really nice sweet spot

 

[Lumalux]

No worries

So unless I misunderstood what you said, I just want to clarify that DHT is not produced on its own in your body, whether in your testicles or adrenals. DHT, just like Estradiol, is entirely converted from Testosterone through an enzyme named 5-alpha reductase, equivalent to the aromatase enzyme responsible for converting Testosterone to Estradiol.

Nothing is going to shut down your production of DHT because it's not "produced" per say. The reason the cream applied to the scrotum results in such high DHT levels is that there's a very high concentration of 5-alpha reductase enzymes located there, so a disproportionate amount of the Testosterone is going to be converted to DHT, relative to other parts of your body or administration routes (nasal, injections, oral, etc...).

The other thing is that very high DHT levels might not impact your Serum Estradiol levels on a blood test because DHT doesn't prevent the conversion of T to E, unlike for example an actual aromatase inhibitor such as Arimidex (Anastrozole) or Exemestane (Aromasin).
DHT "competes" (simplification, the article I linked in my previous post goes into more detail) with Estrogen at the receptor level, effectively acting in some ways as an Estrogen blocker, such that you could very well suffer from low E2 symptoms despite having very high E2 levels on a blood test if your DHT is high enough.

Bodybuilders have known this for a long time and often use a DHT-derivative such as Primobolan or Masteron to act as a form of AI and keep a dryer look while preventing side effects such as bloating, gyno and hypertension.

Hot flashes are typically a sign of low E2, which is why post-menopausal women, whose Estrogen levels basically drop to 0, notoriously get them.
Given that you're not only disproportionately converting to DHT from the scrotal application of the cream, but also adding exogenous pure DHT with the DHT cream, I think it's at least worth exploring the hypothesis that your DHT levels could be so high that even though your E2 could look fine (or even high) on a lab result, you would suffer from low E2 symptoms.

There's no way to truly verify this, but if you got your DHT tested and it came back at 5 times the top of the range, it would be reasonable to bring it down a bit and see if that helps.

The reason I'm so excited about this DHT cream is that one of the biggest problem for a large number of men taking exogenous T, is that we don't get three separate knobs to control levels of T, E2, and DHT. Instead DHT and E2 are converted from Testosterone at rates that are for the most part genetically predetermined, with some nurture factors in there (mostly how fat you are, which to some degree increases aromatization).

It's like having an equalizer with Bass Trebble and Middle where every time you move the Bass up, Trebble and Middle also move up in a completely predetermined way. Unless those rates are somehow optimally correlated, you're going to have a really hard time getting the sound you want, it's basically going to be impossible.

But because DHT is a natural Estrogen antagonist and we now have the ability to supplement it independently from Testosterone conversion, we have a lot more separate control on those three knobs (T, E2, DHT).

That's why to me something like a really stable base of injected Test (Test C daily injections, for ex) with some DHT cream as an adjustable add-on to modulate E2, sounds like a good experiment to run. Start with just injections and see how you feel, then add a bit of DHT cream. Do you feel better? Ok, add a little more. Better? Keep going until you start getting low E2 sides, step back a bit and you could potentially find yourself a really nice sweet spot

Thank you for a fantastic explanation of this complicated balance.

 

[K.pietera]

No worries

So unless I misunderstood what you said, I just want to clarify that DHT is not produced on its own in your body, whether in your testicles or adrenals. DHT, just like Estradiol, is entirely converted from Testosterone through an enzyme named 5-alpha reductase, equivalent to the aromatase enzyme responsible for converting Testosterone to Estradiol.

Nothing is going to shut down your production of DHT because it's not "produced" per say. The reason the cream applied to the scrotum results in such high DHT levels is that there's a very high concentration of 5-alpha reductase enzymes located there, so a disproportionate amount of the Testosterone is going to be converted to DHT, relative to other parts of your body or administration routes (nasal, injections, oral, etc...).

The other thing is that very high DHT levels might not impact your Serum Estradiol levels on a blood test because DHT doesn't prevent the conversion of T to E, unlike for example an actual aromatase inhibitor such as Arimidex (Anastrozole) or Exemestane (Aromasin).
DHT "competes" (simplification, the article I linked in my previous post goes into more detail) with Estrogen at the receptor level, effectively acting in some ways as an Estrogen blocker, such that you could very well suffer from low E2 symptoms despite having very high E2 levels on a blood test if your DHT is high enough.

Bodybuilders have known this for a long time and often use a DHT-derivative such as Primobolan or Masteron to act as a form of AI and keep a dryer look while preventing side effects such as bloating, gyno and hypertension.

Hot flashes are typically a sign of low E2, which is why post-menopausal women, whose Estrogen levels basically drop to 0, notoriously get them.
Given that you're not only disproportionately converting to DHT from the scrotal application of the cream, but also adding exogenous pure DHT with the DHT cream, I think it's at least worth exploring the hypothesis that your DHT levels could be so high that even though your E2 could look fine (or even high) on a lab result, you would suffer from low E2 symptoms.

There's no way to truly verify this, but if you got your DHT tested and it came back at 5 times the top of the range, it would be reasonable to bring it down a bit and see if that helps.

The reason I'm so excited about this DHT cream is that one of the biggest problem for a large number of men taking exogenous T, is that we don't get three separate knobs to control levels of T, E2, and DHT. Instead DHT and E2 are converted from Testosterone at rates that are for the most part genetically predetermined, with some nurture factors in there (mostly how fat you are, which to some degree increases aromatization).

It's like having an equalizer with Bass Trebble and Middle where every time you move the Bass up, Trebble and Middle also move up in a completely predetermined way. Unless those rates are somehow optimally correlated, you're going to have a really hard time getting the sound you want, it's basically going to be impossible.

But because DHT is a natural Estrogen antagonist and we now have the ability to supplement it independently from Testosterone conversion, we have a lot more separate control on those three knobs (T, E2, DHT).

That's why to me something like a really stable base of injected Test (Test C daily injections, for ex) with some DHT cream as an adjustable add-on to modulate E2, sounds like a good experiment to run. Start with just injections and see how you feel, then add a bit of DHT cream. Do you feel better? Ok, add a little more. Better? Keep going until you start getting low E2 sides, step back a bit and you could potentially find yourself a really nice sweet spot

Awesome thanks a lot for your in depth response!!

What I will try is to reduce my dht cream to 1 click in the morning and see how I will feel then. Thanks a lot !

 

[Jerajera]

Thank you for a fantastic explanation of this complicated balance.

You're welcome, I'm glad it's helpful!

Awesome thanks a lot for your in depth response!!

What I will try is to reduce my dht cream to 1 click in the morning and see how I will feel then. Thanks a lot !

You're welcome! Let me know what happens. I'm going to sign up with the clinic and get the DHT cream, see what I can do with it

 

[Nelson Vergel]

The clinic in the UK?

TRT UK: Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) in the UK Guide by Trusted Experts

TRT UK guide on getting diagnosed, treatment options and the costs of TRT in the UK, written by expert doctors, we help answer your TRT FAQs.

balancemyhormones.co.uk

 

[K.pietera]

You're welcome, I'm glad it's helpful!



You're welcome! Let me know what happens. I'm going to sign up with the clinic and get the DHT cream, see what I can do with it

Hey man , it's only 3 days that I apply it once a day and I immediately feel better ( no hot flashes anymore) thanks for the great tip !!

 

[Jerajera]

Hey man , it's only 3 days that I apply it once a day and I immediately feel better ( no hot flashes anymore) thanks for the great tip !!

That's awesome! I'm glad you're feeling better

I just started the compounded cream applied to the scrotum 3 days ago myself. 2 clicks 2x/day (200mg total).

Felt really irritable the first 2 days and now starting to feel better. I'm going to give it a few weeks and see how I feel + get labs. I'll update this thread. Curious where my DHT will be!

 

[K.pietera]

Wow that is a lot to start with !! Yeah , keep us up to date I'm really curious how it will help you.

Ps : did you also get it via balancemyhormones dr george Touliatos ?

 

[Lumalux]

That's awesome! I'm glad you're feeling better

I just started the compounded cream applied to the scrotum 3 days ago myself. 2 clicks 2x/day (200mg total).

Felt really irritable the first 2 days and now starting to feel better. I'm going to give it a few weeks and see how I feel + get labs. I'll update this thread. Curious where my DHT will be!

Please keep us posted on all noted effects of this. Thank you!

 

[K.pietera]

Please keep us posted on all noted effects of this. Thank you!

So a little update from mysellf , I felt better afther using 1 click instead of two for a few days but now I have the hot flashes again :/... so I think I will quit using the DHT cream and see if I feel better...


I am glad that I know that quitting the DHT will NOT stop my own production... I am so gratefull for this forum !