Defy - Is this normally how they work? Negative experience so far...

[Hanzt]

Just had my first call with them. I really wanted to like them and handle everything thru them... No doctor on the call, it was a nurse. I thought I was told the first call would be with a doctor when I was looking into it. I figured not a huge deal if she is good. Time allotted was 60 minutes, but it only lasted about 35 minutes. She was nice but seems kind of scripted in that she stuck to the long list of recommendations that was pre-prepared and just going thru the motions. Some things she even admitted I was not really needing but if I wanted, I might get levels up in certain areas even though they were at a good place generally speaking (such as growth hormone). She recommended something to stimulate my LH production when I'm not making any since my pituitary stopped working...ok that's relatively minor. But what threw me is they really, really want you to buy EVERYTHING thru them and only their connected pharmacy. They will not fax a prescription to Express Scripts so that my testosterone would be covered by my insurance. They totally refuse. I'm paying Defy for medical consults on my T levels, they can prescribe me testosterone, but even though they could help me cover the Testosterone cost, sending a prescription to Express Scripts is not something they will do. They will send prescriptions to their pharmacy of course. WTF. It really feels like product pushing. Next, I got a huge list of stuff in my cart. $1,300 if I ordered it all. A few where choices, so it would be in the $700 range realistically. Some prices were good for supplements etc. But again, I could also get Anastrozole covered most likely thru insurance as well as T. But they won't help. FINALLY the most BIZZARE thing is they wanted me to sign this, their email:

Hello,

I sent you a Transfer of Care form to your email. Please read and complete the form before I process your order. I see you received Testosterone from another provider. Even though you are not ordering Testosterone right now from us, we just want to make sure our patients understand that they can only receive TRT meds from Defy Medical when transferring care over to us. If you have any questions, please feel free to respond back to this email.


Thank you for your time,

If I signed that, I would not be able to get testosterone covered thru insurance. I told them I would keep getting it thru my other doctor due to the insurance issue, and they we trying to block that it seems. This isn't my first rodeo. Seems totally shady. Why would anyone sign that? I have had a lot of doctors over the years, including fuctional and alternative dr's. No one has ever take this approach. Of course I refused. So they told me to "Please disregard" when I pushed back.

Should I be looking for another "doctor"? Starting to feel like it this early in the process.

Thanks

 

[Systemlord]

This process you’ve gone through is normal, your expeditions aren’t realistic and you lack basic understanding about this process.

Defy doesn’t deal with insurance companies period, if defy billed your insurance, insurance companies then dictate treatment protocols, doctors are handcuffed, negating the need for better treatment protocols/private care.

The whole point of using a place like Defy is to completely side step strict, often substandard limited insurance based care.

Defy like any other business needs to make money to stay in business, so by allying with compounding pharmacies, they get a percentage of the cost for prescription medications.

 

[Systemlord]

Should I be looking for another "doctor"?

If you can’t afford to pay out of pocket for your TRT, you should get TRT through an insurance based doctor, however treatment protocols and guidance may be less than optimal.

TrustPilot has Defy Medical at a 4.9 stars out of 5 stars.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

you don't need to order everything through them. I keep it to T and couple smaller items. HCG for ex. i started to order via reliablerx, which is 20usd or so for 10k IU. no way i pay 150usd for pregnyl. but this is not defy's fault, it will cost that anywhere else. they make a small cut on the medicines, but overall are one of the cheapest TRT places out there.
if you don't like it go to your general doc and try to get your hormones tuned. good luck.

 

[Hanzt]

you don't need to order everything through them. I keep it to T and couple smaller items. HCG for ex. i started to order via reliablerx, which is 20usd or so for 10k IU. no way i pay 150usd for pregnyl. but this is not defy's fault, it will cost that anywhere else. they make a small cut on the medicines, but overall are one of the cheapest TRT places out there.
if you don't like it go to your general doc and try to get your hormones tuned. good luck.

Thanks for a reasonable answer.

 

[Hanzt]

This process you’ve gone through is normal, your expeditions aren’t realistic and you lack basic understanding about this process.

Defy doesn’t deal with insurance companies period, if defy billed your insurance, insurance companies then dictate treatment protocols, doctor are handcuffed, negating the need for better treatment protocols/private care.

The whole point of using a place like Defy is to completely side step strict, often substandard limited insurance based care.

Defy like any other business needs to make to stay in business, so by allying with compounding pharmacies, that get a percentage of the cost for prescription medications.

Stooping down to the insults so quickly I see. Why would Defy have to bill my insurance if they fax a prescription into Express Scripts? They would not have to deal with insurance at all. The pharmacy does that, ie Express Scripts, and Express Scripts would bill my insurance. Faxing a prescription to a pharmacy has nothing to do with them dealing with insurance. If anyone doesn't have a basic understanding of the process, it's you.

 

[Hanzt]

If you can’t afford to pay out of pocket for your TRT, you should get TRT through an insurance based doctor, however treatment protocols and guidance may be less than optimal.

Because I want a prescription faxed I can't afford their service? Wow. You guys are so defensive. I don't understand how sending a prescription to my pharmacy instead of theirs show's I can't afford treatment, and it would not involve them working with an insurance company.

 

[Systemlord]

Stooping down to the insults so quickly I see.

No one is insulting you, your problem is your attitude.

 

[Systemlord]

Wow. You guys are so defensive.

This is a hypocritical statement, quite comical.

 

[RickB]

TrustPilot has Defy Medical at a 4.9 stars out of 5 stars.

I'm not judging Defy, but TrustPilot is not trustworthy at all. If a company has a score of 4.9, it is because they are paying TrustPilot. That's how it works. Pay TP and they squash every bad review.

 

[Russell_Defy]

Hi, I work with Defy Medical and wanted to take a quick moment to share some information about our policies to clarify any questions you might have. You can find all the details listed on our webpage. Our services' costs are spread out among medications, labs, and consults, hopefully making it more convenient for patients.

Please note that we do not send controlled substance prescriptions over state lines, and for hormone medications and controlled substances, we order them exclusively through Defy from our vetted and preferred pharmacy vendors. However, non-controlled/commercial medications can be sent to retail pharmacies.

Regarding insurance, we don't correspond with them, and we do not fill out prior authorizations. We believe in providing transparent and efficient services to our clients.

Lastly, our Transfer of Care form is our Medical Director's policy. Its purpose is to ensure that if we take over the prescribing of a controlled substance like testosterone, the patient agrees to stop receiving the prescription from their previous doctor. It's important to comply with the law, as receiving the same controlled medication from two different doctors is illegal.

We want to assure you that we are here to support you throughout your treatment journey. If you decide to continue receiving the prescription from your previous doctor while ordering everything else from Defy, that's completely fine, which is why our staff said you can disregard.

Feel free to reach out to us if you have any further questions or concerns. We're here to help!

 

[Hanzt]

Thanks for the reply. I never expected any correspondence with my insurance nor insurance authorizations. The state line issue makes more sense to me than the way the other person explained it to me when it comes to the pharmacy request. Anyway, I may move all my hormone treatment over to you in the future so I can ditch my endo that follows all the outdated and limited insurance guidelines but Ill do that one step at a time so I can measure the effects of each new drug I add or any changes in amount. We will see. Im still learning about your restrictions and how to work with them.

 

[CKO]

Defy is a "boutique" or private clinic. They work exclusively with a handful of quality compounding pharmacies. Faxing prescriptions for testosterone as well as a lot of other controlled meds across state lines becomes a huge issue. Every state has different standards. Some will accept, some won't. Some pharmacies will flag the rx drawing scrutiny. With defy you are paying for individualized care and a lot of available medications for your medical needs.

There are a handful of medications that they will fax to a local pharmacy. They can submit a prescription to Optum Pharmacy for HCG. It runs around 118 for 10,000, iu

The waiver they are asking you to sign is basically so that you're not getting to testosterone from two different places at the same time. Just a heads up , your endocrinologist may not want two different clinics treating the same thing. So you'll probably have to choose.

Hopefully I cleared a few things up. I'm with Defy and they are great.

 

[lunchbeast]

This process you’ve gone through is normal, your expeditions aren’t realistic and you lack basic understanding about this process.

Defy doesn’t deal with insurance companies period, if defy billed your insurance, insurance companies then dictate treatment protocols, doctors are handcuffed, negating the need for better treatment protocols/private care.

The whole point of using a place like Defy is to completely side step strict, often substandard limited insurance based care.

Defy like any other business needs to make money to stay in business, so by allying with compounding pharmacies, they get a percentage of the cost for prescription medications.

Maybe his "...expeditions..." aren't any better than your grammar and spelling. Kind of embarrassing when your snarkiness unveils your illiteracy...

 

[lunchbeast]

Just had my first call with them. I really wanted to like them and handle everything thru them... No doctor on the call, it was a nurse. I thought I was told the first call would be with a doctor when I was looking into it. I figured not a huge deal if she is good. Time allotted was 60 minutes, but it only lasted about 35 minutes. She was nice but seems kind of scripted in that she stuck to the long list of recommendations that was pre-prepared and just going thru the motions. Some things she even admitted I was not really needing but if I wanted, I might get levels up in certain areas even though they were at a good place generally speaking (such as growth hormone). She recommended something to stimulate my LH production when I'm not making any since my pituitary stopped working...ok that's relatively minor. But what threw me is they really, really want you to buy EVERYTHING thru them and only their connected pharmacy. They will not fax a prescription to Express Scripts so that my testosterone would be covered by my insurance. They totally refuse. I'm paying Defy for medical consults on my T levels, they can prescribe me testosterone, but even though they could help me cover the Testosterone cost, sending a prescription to Express Scripts is not something they will do. They will send prescriptions to their pharmacy of course. WTF. It really feels like product pushing. Next, I got a huge list of stuff in my cart. $1,300 if I ordered it all. A few where choices, so it would be in the $700 range realistically. Some prices were good for supplements etc. But again, I could also get Anastrozole covered most likely thru insurance as well as T. But they won't help. FINALLY the most BIZZARE thing is they wanted me to sign this, their email:

Hello,

I sent you a Transfer of Care form to your email. Please read and complete the form before I process your order. I see you received Testosterone from another provider. Even though you are not ordering Testosterone right now from us, we just want to make sure our patients understand that they can only receive TRT meds from Defy Medical when transferring care over to us. If you have any questions, please feel free to respond back to this email.


Thank you for your time,

If I signed that, I would not be able to get testosterone covered thru insurance. I told them I would keep getting it thru my other doctor due to the insurance issue, and they we trying to block that it seems. This isn't my first rodeo. Seems totally shady. Why would anyone sign that? I have had a lot of doctors over the years, including fuctional and alternative dr's. No one has ever take this approach. Of course I refused. So they told me to "Please disregard" when I pushed back.

Should I be looking for another "doctor"? Starting to feel like it this early in the process.

Thanks

For what it's worth, I fought this battle early on as well. I got nowhere until I complained directly to Dr Saya during one of my routine appointments, at which point he volunteered that they will happily call in prescriptions to a local pharmacy, but there is a $30 admin fee for each call. I was satisfied with that, and even more so the first time I went to take advantage of the option and it was explained by the tech that the $30 is per call, not per prescription. So if I changed the pharmacy for multiple scripts all at the same time, I only incurred the $30 admin fee once.

I have also been successful at getting my testosterone prescription moved several times in spite of it being a controlled substance and me being out of state in AZ. I felt Defy extended me a lot of flexibility when test seemed to be in short supply and hard to find. Several times a pharmacy would tell me they had it, only to find out they didn't and didn't know when they would AFTER I'd moved my script there. Tracked down another pharmacy, called Defy, had them move it again, only to find out said pharmacy also was mistaken about it being in stock. Repeated that three or four times, but Defy only charged me the one admin fee even though I know it was a PIA for them. Finally ended up (for now) at Amazon pharmacy - you might want to check them out.

If I recall correctly, I was initially given the option of consulting with a doctor or a PA, with the PA option being a little cheaper, when I first inquired about treatment. I took the doctor option for the extra peace of mind and don't regret that. While I do occasionally have minor problems or aggravations with the staff, you'll have that anyplace you go, and I've been very happy with Dr Saya's attention and treatment. If you were not comfortable with your first consultation, I'd request to transition to one of the doctors, or a doctor specifically if you have one in mind.

 

[Surcin67]

Stooping down to the insults so quickly I see. Why would Defy have to bill my insurance if they fax a prescription into Express Scripts? They would not have to deal with insurance at all. The pharmacy does that, ie Express Scripts, and Express Scripts would bill my insurance. Faxing a prescription to a pharmacy has nothing to do with them dealing with insurance. If anyone doesn't have a basic understanding of the process, it's you.

usually when estrogen is high folk use insults unfortunately or if smol pp

 

[Systemlord]

usually when estrogen is high folk use insults unfortunately or if smol pp

Telling someone if they can’t afford treatment privately through cash only businesses to seek treatment through insurance isn’t remotely considered an insult.

 

[Russell_Defy]

I'm not judging Defy, but TrustPilot is not trustworthy at all. If a company has a score of 4.9, it is because they are paying TrustPilot. That's how it works. Pay TP and they squash every bad review.

Hi Rick. That is inherently false. Defy Medical, nor any other company that is listed on TrustPilot has the ability to "squash" any review whatsoever. We are proud of our 4.9 rating; but every single 1-4 star review we have ever received, remains on the site and can be viewed by any current or prospective patient. We strive for every review to be five stars but think it's important for anyone to see where we have fallen short.

 

[RickB]

Hi Rick. That is inherently false. Defy Medical, nor any other company that is listed on TrustPilot has the ability to "squash" any review whatsoever. We are proud of our 4.9 rating; but every single 1-4 star review we have ever received, remains on the site and can be viewed by any current or prospective patient. We strive for every review to be five stars but think it's important for anyone to see where we have fallen short.

There's no way to corroborate what you claim, nor what I claim. But it's pay-to-play. That's the business model, so logic says no one is going to pay TP to leave up a bunch of negative reviews. Even if you can't unilaterally remove a review, TP has the backs of those companies who pay. I'm sure, in general, bad reviews are more likely to be removed for guideline violations than good reviews...if you pay to play.

Anybody who's on the fence should do a google search of "trust pilot is a scam".