Defy 'Call-in Fee'?

[lunchbeast]

Just wondering if anybody else has run into this situation...

I recently contacted Defy to learn which labs I needed for my next follow-up appt. I had the rep add them to my cart with the intent of paying for them before Jan EOM to take advantage of a 10% discount.

When I went to complete the transaction on Jan 30, I did a quick math check in my head and the numbers did not add up. Pulled out the calculator to double check and sure 'nuf, the numbers did not add up. The individual tests added up to $406, but the cart total as $436 (see attachment). Checked again, and again, and again, thinking I had to be making a mistake, but nothing changed. The total for the listed items was $406, but the cart total was $436.

Shot off an email with a screen image of my cart to Defy, thinking this was a very obvious arithmetic error in the website software, for an explanation. The response referred to this as a 'call-in fee' -

"There is a call-in fee in your cart along with your labs. $406 is the total for the labs and $30 is the price of a call-in fee."​

More back and forth, but the gist is that there is this 'call-in fee' that is charged for calling in prescriptions to your own preferred pharmacy as opposed to theirs (ie, Empower, etc), which I do...just not this time. This was added to my cart even though I was just asking about labs. Most importantly, it did not show on my side, as you can see in the attached image. It got added into the total, but no line item for it. Had I not checked the math, I would have paid for this without knowing.

I was told the Defy staff can see it on their side, and I was told I could have it removed, which I did. However, I never really got satisfactory explanation as to why it was added in the first place, nor why I couldn't see it.

I don't know if this 'call-in fee' is routinely added to my, or anyone else's, cart. I don't always double check the math, and I doubt most people do. I hate to sound accusatory, but this feels kind of shady. It's one of those situations where the company could routinely add the 'call-in fee' to every transaction, then claim it was an accident, human error, etc. if somebody challenges them on it and then remove it. Remember, it doesn't show up in the cart. If it's not noticed and challenged, they simple collect an extra $30 on every transaction.

 

[gallant]

I use to be upset about Defy's fees as well until I did the math and thought about things. They are in business and need to make money somehow. In the big picture Defy is quite reasonable. Perhaps Defy could be more clear about what they are charging and why but I'm not concerned with it anymore. I'm glad you brought it up though because it seems to be an issue with many.
You can also buy your own lab tests from another provider, forward them to Defy and that will satisfy their testing requirements as long as it's the correct tests. You can look at privatemdlabs and as well as Nelson's discountedlabs. Be sure to use any available discount codes.

 

[tareload]

They are a business and you pay to cut through the typical red tape and bureaucratic BS. Nice summary @gallant. Remember time is money.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

they are one of the cheaper clinics out there with a good know how. i have a buddy who moved from CA here. back in San Diego he was part of a clinic, they charged something like 700usd/month 'all incl.' no fees of any kind.

 

[tareload]

"They're a business" is a reason to expect transparency not a reason to excuse what looks like a deceptive (intentional or not) practice.

I am as critical as they come; there is no deceptive practice here. This appears to be some special case /snafu. Defy very clear about "call in" fee for sending Rx for medication outside their partners. Has nothing to do with labwork.

 

[tareload]

Remember, it doesn't show up in the cart. If it's not noticed and challenged, they simple collect an extra $30 on every transaction.

I guess you mean this as a hypothetical. Does not happen with Defy. In fact, I've had them hand write an order for bloodwork I could use at lab of my choice. The ignorant reader is going to read this thread and be confused as shit.

There is a fee to call in a prescription medication to pharmacy external to Defy's network (i.e., ordering off their store). There is no fee on every order in some scammy way. Their shipping prices are transparent / maybe inflated.

As I said in my experience they will actually write me a labwork order free if I don't want to order the blood work off their site.

Good job checking your charges. Everyone should always check this.

 

[JmarkH]

I use a different provider, and they do the same thing. Every time I need a tadalafil refill (90 days) I get charged a $30 fee. Then I have to pay the pharmacy.

 

[Russell_Defy]

Hi there. I'm with Defy. First off, thanks for bringing this to our attention. Please send me an email so we can pull up your account and figure out exactly what happened here. Without knowing for sure which account this happened to, it is harder to figure out. Please email [email protected] and we will assist. Thanks and have a great day.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Hey, it just doesn't get any better than this. I am impressed with the customer service at Defy.

 

[tareload]

Hi there. I'm with Defy. First off, thanks for bringing this to our attention. Please send me an email so we can pull up your account and figure out exactly what happened here. Without knowing for sure which account this happened to, it is harder to figure out. Please email [email protected] and we will assist. Thanks and have a great day.

Russell where's my likes above? I need some dopamine hits Bro!

I am trying to break the high score. Mental health is health.

 

[lunchbeast]

I guess you mean this as a hypothetical. Does not happen with Defy. In fact, I've had them hand write an order for bloodwork I could use at lab of my choice. The ignorant reader is going to read this thread and be confused as shit.

There is a fee to call in a prescription medication to pharmacy external to Defy's network (i.e., ordering off their store). There is no fee on every order in some scammy way. Their shipping prices are transparent / maybe inflated.

As I said in my experience they will actually write me a labwork order free if I don't want to order the blood work off their site.

Good job checking your charges. Everyone should always check this.

It's not hypothetical, it was not for prescriptions, and it most certainly did occur with Defy. I attached the image.

 

[lunchbeast]

I think a lot of you kind of missed the point. There was a (completely unjustified as it turned out - this was NOT for prescriptions) fee added to my cart for labs that did not appear anywhere except in the total. I have no issues with their rates or fees, not did I imply such. My concern was with a charge added to my cart without my knowledge and which was not itemized with the rest of the contents. Had I not checked the math, I wouldn't have known it was there and I'm sure Defy would have let me pay for it.

If you're ok with being charged unjustified fees that you're not even aware of ("I'm not concerned with it anymore" - @gallant, "Remember time is money." - @readalot, "Hey, it just doesn't get any better than this.", @BigTex ), then obviously issue would not apply to you. I don't think most people would find this to be acceptable.

 

[tareload]

I think a lot of you kind of missed the point. There was a (completely unjustified as it turned out - this was NOT for prescriptions) fee added to my cart for labs that did not appear anywhere except in the total. I have no issues with their rates or fees, not did I imply such. My concern was with a charge added to my cart without my knowledge and which was not itemized with the rest of the contents. Had I not checked the math, I wouldn't have known it was there and I'm sure Defy would have let me pay for it.

If you're ok with being charged unjustified fees that you're not even aware of ("I'm not concerned with it anymore" - @gallant, "Remember time is money." - @readalot, "Hey, it just doesn't get any better than this.", @BigTex ), then obviously issue would not apply to you. I don't think most people would find this to be acceptable.

Understood. They placed a fee in your cart that was not part of the line items and should not have been part of your order. Thank you for posting and explaining in detail.

Ask them give you a $60 credit to make up for it. Your clarification does indeed make this whole situation sound either scammy/strange or supernatural.

Also I dig you attention to detail. Excellent use of callouts and quotations above. Methodical. Respect.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I think a lot of you kind of missed the point. There was a (completely unjustified as it turned out - this was NOT for prescriptions) fee added to my cart for labs that did not appear anywhere except in the total. I have no issues with their rates or fees, not did I imply such. My concern was with a charge added to my cart without my knowledge and which was not itemized with the rest of the contents. Had I not checked the math, I wouldn't have known it was there and I'm sure Defy would have let me pay for it.

If you're ok with being charged unjustified fees that you're not even aware of ("I'm not concerned with it anymore" - @gallant, "Remember time is money." - @readalot, "Hey, it just doesn't get any better than this.", @BigTex ), then obviously issue would not apply to you. I don't think most people would find this to be acceptable.

No point missed here. You are absolutely right to question any charge you don't understand or agree with. I think it is great they Defy took the time to address you post in public and offer to remedy the issue. No doubt CVS would not do this or any of the other doctors we all use. However, since Defy is a sponsor of the board (we love our sponsors), it might have been better to do this in private. Again, I applaud Defy for stepping up and addressing this. I hope you get this all worked out to your approval.

 

[lunchbeast]

"... However, since Defy is a sponsor of the board (we love our sponsors), it might have been better to do this in private. Again, I applaud Defy for stepping up and addressing this."

As I mentioned in my post, I asked very clear questions about what this was, why it was there, and why it wasn't itemized in my cart. All I got was "It's an admin fee" and an acknowledgment that they could see it from their side. Every effort to get the 'why' for why I couldn't see it on my side was sidestepped. These conversations were in email dialogs and phone conversations. Doesn't get much more private than that.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

IMHO, private woud have been contacting Defy to work it out, not posting your private communications in a PUBLIC forum, which this definitely is. No big deal to me as I am not a Defy patient but I as a forum administrator I do respect those who sponsor a web site and forum and would not want to see dirty laudry aired in a board they support. Its just a lack of respect. I still think Defy showed a lot of class by addressing this in a public forum. Hopefully you will continue the dialogue in privacy with Defy, seem to me they offered to solve this. Again, I hope it gets worked out. I would be a little ticked off too but would have taken that up with Defy, not here.

 

[lunchbeast]

IMHO, private woud have been contacting Defy to work it out, not posting your private communications in a PUBLIC forum, which this definitely is. No big deal to me as I am not a Defy patient but I as a forum administrator I do respect those who sponsor a web site and forum and would not want to see dirty laudry aired in a board they support. Its just a lack of respect. I still think Defy showed a lot of class by addressing this in a public forum. Hopefully you will continue the dialogue in privacy with Defy, seem to me they offered to solve this. Again, I hope it gets worked out. I would be a little ticked off too but would have taken that up with Defy, not here.

As I have stated multiple times now, I did discuss this with them privately, or at least as privately as one-on-one phone conversations and emails can be - perhaps you have a different idea of 'private' than I do. I got nowhere expressing my concerns about this fee not being visible to me - I gave them every opportunity to get out in front of this, but nobody seemed remotely interested in even acknowledging that it was a problem. They simply responded they could see it on their side and that appeared to be all they cared about. Consequently, I felt I should post my experience here to give others a heads up - I have no idea if this is a one-off mistake with my account, an issue with potentially everybody's account, or a website bug. For all I knew, everybody has a hidden call-in fee in their carts that they're completely unaware of.

I've done literally everything you suggested, yet you describe this as "...just a lack of respect" and you worry about respecting "...those who sponsor a web site and forum and would not want to see dirty laudry aired in a board they support".

I'm not sure what more I could have done, other than keep quiet and simply look the other way, but I feel that would have been a disservice to the board's community.

 

[tareload]

As I have stated multiple times now, I did discuss this with them privately, or at least as privately as one-on-one phone conversations and emails can be - perhaps you have a different idea of 'private' than I do. I got nowhere expressing my concerns about this fee not being visible to me - I gave them every opportunity to get out in front of this, but nobody seemed remotely interested in even acknowledging that it was a problem. They simply responded they could see it on their side and that appeared to be all they cared about. Consequently, I felt I should post my experience here to give others a heads up - I have no idea if this is a one-off mistake with my account, an issue with potentially everybody's account, or a website bug. For all I knew, everybody has a hidden call-in fee in their carts that they're completely unaware of.

I've done literally everything you suggested, yet you describe this as "...just a lack of respect" and you worry about respecting "...those who sponsor a web site and forum and would not want to see dirty laudry aired in a board they support".

I'm not sure what more I could have done, other than keep quiet and simply look the other way, but I feel that would have been a disservice to the board's community.

Thanks for additional details. Yes that is problematic

 

[Deleted member 43589]

As I have stated multiple times now, I did discuss this with them privately, or at least as privately as one-on-one phone conversations and emails can be - perhaps you have a different idea of 'private' than I do. I got nowhere expressing my concerns about this fee not being visible to me - I gave them every opportunity to get out in front of this, but nobody seemed remotely interested in even acknowledging that it was a problem. They simply responded they could see it on their side and that appeared to be all they cared about. Consequently, I felt I should post my experience here to give others a heads up - I have no idea if this is a one-off mistake with my account, an issue with potentially everybody's account, or a website bug. For all I knew, everybody has a hidden call-in fee in their carts that they're completely unaware of.

I've done literally everything you suggested, yet you describe this as "...just a lack of respect" and you worry about respecting "...those who sponsor a web site and forum and would not want to see dirty laudry aired in a board they support".

I'm not sure what more I could have done, other than keep quiet and simply look the other way, but I feel that would have been a disservice to the board's community.

I think this is a much better posting about what extent you took. Seems you did all you could to call this to their attention and get them to work this out with you. As I said, I would have been ticked off, to say the least and not sure how I would have handled it. I apologize for not seeing the whole side of this story. I honestly at this point don't know what else you could have done. Hopefully Defy has remedied this. After reconsidering with all I know now I feel you had no choice but to warn the rest of us. I hope Defy does a little better job explaining all charges in their carts. While I do not intend to use Defy because they don't take insurance, I am sure this will help others be more aware of what they are being charged for. Again, I apologize for not understanding the whole story.

 

[Jon H]

I'm a Defy patient. I just ordered labs through the website on Jan 27th. The next Monday I gave them a phone call, and said I would like to add two more labs to the order. They actually had to cancel the previous order, add the labs, make the new order, and process it for payment. I couldn't have asked for a better experience, and the lab requisition was sent to my email within 15 minutes of hanging up. No extra fees, and they made sure to apply the January discount code to the entire order. I'm glad it's being resolved for you. If you think about it, it's phenomenal that a company like Defy is even taking a look at this forum and reaching out to help a customer outside the official business channels.

As a side note, when you log into the Defy patient portal you can check your messages from the last consult. After every one of my consults there has been a message that shows what medications I'm approved to order, and which ones may have been discontinued, based on the consult. There will also be some verbiage at the bottom that will state exactly what labs need to be ordered (or any other action I need to take care of) prior to the next consult. I never have to actually call to get this information.