Daily dosing my HCG similar to my test?

[PushrodV8]

I found I felt my best when I broke my 200mg of test/week into smaller injections. I currently take 700iu of HCG x 3/week in attempts to restart and conceive a child. I noticed HCG has spiked my estrogen more so than the test ever.

Short of having to stick myself a shit load more, is there any benefit from breaking up the 2100iu total a week into 7 smaller shots of 300iu/day instead of the larger 3, of 700iu?

Thank you

 

[Gman86]

I found I felt my best when I broke my 200mg of test/week into smaller injections. I currently take 700iu of HCG x 3/week in attempts to restart and conceive a child. I noticed HCG has spiked my estrogen more so than the test ever.

Short of having to stick myself a shit load more, is there any benefit from breaking up the 2100iu total a week into 7 smaller shots of 300iu/day instead of the larger 3, of 700iu?

Thank you

I’m not sure if increasing frequency would help decrease E2, but I would assume that there’s a chance it could help. But I can almost guarantee it can’t hurt, so I think it’s worth trying. I’ve always done HCG EOD. When I was on HCG monotherapy for a couple years I remember reading a study that showed EOD injections of HCG were close to ideal due to the fact that giving the leydig cells a day off made them a little more sensitive to stimulation on injection days, opposed to ED injections, while doing the same weekly dosage. So I don’t think ED injections are necessary. I’d say EOD is a good balance. Also, you can probably cut your dose in half and see if that’s enough to keep you fertile. I just got my ex pregnant in March while being off HCG for two months. Before that, I was taking around 1000iu’s/ week of Empower’s HCG, split up into EOD injections of 290iu’s each injection. I was taking testosterone the whole time I was using HCG. I’ve been on testosterone for about 3 years now with no breaks.

 

[madman]

I found I felt my best when I broke my 200mg of test/week into smaller injections. I currently take 700iu of HCG x 3/week in attempts to restart and conceive a child. I noticed HCG has spiked my estrogen more so than the test ever.

Short of having to stick myself a shit load more, is there any benefit from breaking up the 2100iu total a week into 7 smaller shots of 300iu/day instead of the larger 3, of 700iu?

Thank you

Are you 100% sure about this?

From one of your older threads from late last year: Newest lab results. It's a doozy. Need seasoned advice


Your SHBG is on the low end 20.6 nmol/L.....you were injecting 20 mg T daily (140 mg/week) and at trough your TT/FT and E2 levels were high.

You were hitting a TT 904 ng/dL, FT just over top end of the range and that was using the piss poor direct immunoassay which has been shown to be inaccurate let alone underestimated FT levels when compared to the most accurate FT testing method the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis.

Your E2 was also high 62 pg/ml (LC/MS-MS).

Now on your new protocol you are injecting a whopping dose of T roughly 28.5 mg daily (200 mg/week).....your TT/FT and E2 levels will be much higher compared to your previous protocol 20 mg T daily (140 mg/week).

Why did you not post full labs on new protocol?

Where does your TT/FT/E2 levels sit on such dose of T 28 mg daily as again your SHBG is on the lower end.

When one has low/lowish SHBG very high TT levels are not needed to achieve a healthy FT.

The only way to know where your FT levels truly sit on said T dose/protocol is to use the most accurate testing methods such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration or if anything simply use the newer calculated TruT method (which has been shown to be on par with results obtained by the gold standard ED).....TruT Free Testosterone Calculator by FPT.....available on line for free!

To give you an example having low end SHBG of 20.6 nmol/L than one would only need to hit a TT trough of 850 ng/dL.

Using the newer calculated TruT method having a TT 850 ng/dL, SHBG 20.6 nmol/L and Albumin 4.3 ng/dL (mean) than FT would be 31.36 ng/dL (top end of the reference range of 16-31 ng/dL).

Again where did your TT/FT/E2 levels sit on the whopping dose of roughly 28.5 mg T daily without the hCG added?

 

[PushrodV8]

Is there something wrong with 700iu x 3 week to restore fertility? I am not sure I am following the "are you sure about this?" HCG is used to restore fertility is it not?

I should have gave more information, because the intro is confusing. Prior to starting HCG I was at 200mg/week, I did truly feel my best because those earlier tests I was still having issues with my AI/knowing how I respond to high/low E2.

I am currently doing 700iu hcg x 3 week. My testosterone dose has been dropped significantly. I am currently at 75mg/week because of the HCG. I don't have current labs, those get done on Monday.

Why does my labs matter from when I was at 200mg test a week in relation to my original post? (I am not trying to come off like a dick, I mean that as sincerely as possible) I just know I benefit from the smaller more frequent injections and wasn't sure if the HCG could be done the same but from Gman86 reply, the day off rationale makes sense.

The purpose of the HCG is were trying to conceive a child. I am coming up on month 3. I am giving the HCG 2 more months before I try a clomid/HCG combo. I have a sperm test scheduled next week. However from what I am reading on other forums, some guys are conceiving without HCG and it's very possible that I am not the culprit and it could be the wife, so the sperm test will hopefully reveal some more answers.

Thank you for your detailed reply though, I do appreciate it.

I’m not sure if increasing frequency would help decrease E2, but I would assume that there’s a chance it could help. But I can almost guarantee it can’t hurt, so I think it’s worth trying. I’ve always done HCG EOD. When I was on HCG monotherapy for a couple years I remember reading a study that showed EOD injections of HCG were close to ideal due to the fact that giving the leydig cells a day off made them a little more sensitive to stimulation on injection days, opposed to ED injections, while doing the same weekly dosage. So I don’t think ED injections are necessary. I’d say EOD is a good balance. Also, you can probably cut your dose in half and see if that’s enough to keep you fertile. I just got my ex pregnant in March while being off HCG for two months. Before that, I was taking around 1000iu’s/ week of Empower’s HCG, split up into EOD injections of 290iu’s each injection. I was taking testosterone the whole time I was using HCG. I’ve been on testosterone for about 3 years now with no breaks.

Thank you, the day off makes sense, as I have heard about overloading the leydig cells to the point that more does not equal better. I am currently at 75mg/week of test, I am half tempted to keep tapering off and do solely HCG but we will see how this next ovulation window goes. I am about 3 months in since starting HCG

 

[madman]

Is there something wrong with 700iu x 3 week to restore fertility? I am not sure I am following the "are you sure about this?" HCG is used to restore fertility is it not?

I should have gave more information, because the intro is confusing. Prior to starting HCG I was at 200mg/week, I did truly feel my best because those earlier tests I was still having issues with my AI/knowing how I respond to high/low E2.

I am currently doing 700iu hcg x 3 week. My testosterone dose has been dropped significantly. I am currently at 75mg/week because of the HCG. I don't have current labs, those get done on Monday.

Why does my labs matter from when I was at 200mg test a week in relation to my original post? (I am not trying to come off like a dick, I mean that as sincerely as possible) I just know I benefit from the smaller more frequent injections and wasn't sure if the HCG could be done the same but from Gman86 reply, the day off rationale makes sense.

The purpose of the HCG is were trying to conceive a child. I am coming up on month 3. I am giving the HCG 2 more months before I try a clomid/HCG combo. I have a sperm test scheduled next week. However from what I am reading on other forums, some guys are conceiving without HCG and it's very possible that I am not the culprit and it could be the wife, so the sperm test will hopefully reveal some more answers.

Thank you for your detailed reply though, I do appreciate it.

Prior to starting HCG I was at 200mg/week, I did truly feel my best because those earlier tests I was still having issues with my AI/knowing how I respond to high/low E2.

- seeing as your TT/FT/E2 levels were high on the 140 mg/week protocol (20 mg daily)due to low end SHBG levels and you eventually increased your T dose to 200mg/week (whopping dose 28 mg daily) although you may have felt great overall aside from high E2 your TT/FT levels must have been absurdly high let alone you needed to implement an aromatase inhibitor.


Why does my labs matter from when I was at 200mg test a week in relation to my original post? (I am not trying to come off like a dick, I mean that as sincerely as possible) I just know I benefit from the smaller more frequent injections and wasn't sure if the HCG could be done the same but from Gman86 reply, the day off rationale makes sense.


- I misunderstood and thought you were still injecting 28 mg T daily (200 mg/week) along with the hCG.

- I see now as you stated that you have significantly reduced your T dose to 75 mg/week since the addition of the hCG.





Low-dose hCG can prevent sterility in men prescribed testosterone (2019)

pg 1-3

Low-dose hCG can prevent sterility in men prescribed testosterone

As you are aware a semen analysis is critical pre-trt for those men that plan on fathering children.

 

[madman]

Regardless of one using hCG to maintain fertility let alone adding FSH to the protocol when trying to maintain fertility a critical point that men on trt need to understand is as stated by Lipshultz


“Patients need to realize that 2% of all men are sterile,” Lipshultz said. “We need to know where the individual is before we introduce testosterone because our endpoint may not be able to be any better than pre-treatment level.”

No point in anyone stressing whether the addition of hCG, FSH let alone other methods to improve fertility unless one has had a semen analysis done.

 

[PushrodV8]

Gotcha, I understand now. I appreciate the detailed response. I have the analysis scheduled but I looked into FSH, at $600 with empower that's gonna be a last resort though I am still leery about adding clomid. I had been debating about tapering off test completely, then adding clomid with the HCG, then if that didn't do the trick bite the bullet and do FSH.

However being that I am just now at the 3 month mark with introducing HCG again, I should give it a few months considering 3 month maturation of sperm time frame if I was in fact 0 from the TRT. I should have done an analysis prior to starting trt but prior to starting I did not want kids.

 

[Gman86]

Gotcha, I understand now. I appreciate the detailed response. I have the analysis scheduled but I looked into FSH, at $600 with empower that's gonna be a last resort though I am still leery about adding clomid. I had been debating about tapering off test completely, then adding clomid with the HCG, then if that didn't do the trick bite the bullet and do FSH.

However being that I am just now at the 3 month mark with introducing HCG again, I should give it a few months considering 3 month maturation of sperm time frame if I was in fact 0 from the TRT. I should have done an analysis prior to starting trt but prior to starting I did not want kids.

Very curious to see what your sperm test results are. Definitely keep us posted if you remember.

 

[at15]

I am currently doing 700iu hcg x 3 week. My testosterone dose has been dropped significantly. I am currently at 75mg/week because of the HCG. I don't have current labs, those get done on Monday.

@PushrodV8 any update?

 

[Corsair84]

bump for update