Clomid Restart w/Defy

[JakeH]

I will update as more labs or significant changes occur.

[TABLE="width: 372"]
[TR]
[TD]I switched to Defy Medical on January 11th for two reasons: 1) my doctor required in-office shots, which prevented dosages every 3.5 days; 2) he would not entertain the idea of multiple shots to prevent my 48-72hr spike that led to my feeling awful every week, with pronounced redness from my nipples to my ears; sweating, ED resistant to higher doses of Cialis and Viagra. SO, I felt crazy for three days each week.

I met with Defy on the 11th, and I was told I could give a Clomid Restart a shot if I wanted to, though my chance of success is less than 50% due to age, past injuries, etc.

Age: 39
Height 73.5"
Weight 192
Daily supplements:
DIM 200mg ED
DHEA 25mg ED
Vit-D 10,000 ED

Last shot 160mg Test Cyp, 500HCG on 9 January.
Begin HCG (300ui) daily x 14 days on 23 Jan
Begin Clomid (25mg) daily x30 days on 6 February

Protocols :1x per week 150mg Cyp,500HCG (23Sep-Nov7); 170mg CYP,500hcg (Nov7-Dec12); 160mg Cyp,500HCG (Dec12-Jan9)


[TABLE="width: 520"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]9/16/2016[/TD]
[TD]10/31/2016[/TD]
[TD]12/5/2016[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total Test[/TD]
[TD]232[/TD]
[TD]433 (Trough)[/TD]
[TD]979 (Trough)[/TD]
[TD]348 - 1197 ng/dL[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Free Test[/TD]
[TD]3.3[/TD]
[TD]7.6[/TD]
[TD]20.5[/TD]
[TD]9-30 ng/dl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]FSH[/TD]
[TD]4.5[/TD]
[TD]<0.1[/TD]
[TD]<0.1[/TD]
[TD]0.7-11.1 mIU/ml[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]LH[/TD]
[TD]3.3[/TD]
[TD]<0.1[/TD]
[TD]<0.1[/TD]
[TD]0.8-7.6 mIU/ml[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Prolactin[/TD]
[TD]2.8[/TD]
[TD]Blank[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]2.5-17 ng/dl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]E2 (standard)[/TD]
[TD]39.6[/TD]
[TD]41[/TD]
[TD]46.8[/TD]
[TD]<57 pg/ml[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SHBG[/TD]
[TD]49.6[/TD]
[TD]42.6[/TD]
[TD]39.5[/TD]
[TD]16.5-55.9 nmol/L[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DHEA-S[/TD]
[TD]221[/TD]
[TD]476[/TD]
[TD]292[/TD]
[TD]102.6-416 ug/dl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]TSH, 3rd GEN[/TD]
[TD]1.41[/TD]
[TD]Blank[/TD]
[TD]Blank[/TD]
[TD]0.4-4.5 uIU/ml[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]FREE T4[/TD]
[TD]1.12[/TD]
[TD]Blank[/TD]
[TD]Blank[/TD]
[TD]0.89-1.76 ng/dl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Free T3[/TD]
[TD]3.8[/TD]
[TD]Blank[/TD]
[TD]Blank[/TD]
[TD]1.8-4.2 pg/dl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ANTI-TPO[/TD]
[TD]16.4[/TD]
[TD]Blank[/TD]
[TD]Blank[/TD]
[TD]<35 IU/ml[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]A1C/Glucose[/TD]
[TD]5.1/99[/TD]
[TD]Blank[/TD]
[TD]5.3/87[/TD]
[TD]<5.7/99[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total Chol[/TD]
[TD]200[/TD]
[TD]Blank[/TD]
[TD]181[/TD]
[TD]100 - 199 mg/dL[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Non-HDL-C[/TD]
[TD]123[/TD]
[TD]Blank[/TD]
[TD]122[/TD]
[TD]<130[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]HDL-C[/TD]
[TD]77[/TD]
[TD]Blank[/TD]
[TD]59[/TD]
[TD]>39 mg/dL[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Vit-D[/TD]
[TD]38.4[/TD]
[TD]34.1[/TD]
[TD]39.9[/TD]
[TD]25-75[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RBC[/TD]
[TD]4.6[/TD]
[TD]4.4[/TD]
[TD]4.62[/TD]
[TD]3.8-5.6 x10e6/ul[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hemoglobin[/TD]
[TD]14.2[/TD]
[TD]13.7[/TD]
[TD]14.8[/TD]
[TD]12.6-17.7 g/dl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hematocrit[/TD]
[TD]41.3[/TD]
[TD]41.2[/TD]
[TD]42.2[/TD]
[TD]35-47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PSA[/TD]
[TD]0.6[/TD]
[TD]0.539[/TD]
[TD]0.583[/TD]
[TD]<4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]CRP hs[/TD]
[TD]0.4[/TD]
[TD]Blank[/TD]
[TD]0.59[/TD]
[TD]<3 mg/L[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[CoastWatcher]

Well, you're certainly receiving better medical care - no matter what the results of your Clomid effort turns out to be. We're glad you joined Excelmale and hope you'll be an active member.

 

[ERO]

You will be getting the best of care with Defy. Even if your Clomid re-start fails, you will be able to get cutting edge TRT from them.

 

[ALMSGT502]

Good luck with the restart and you're in excellent hands with DEFY

 

[JakeH]

Well, you're certainly receiving better medical care - no matter what the results of your Clomid effort turns out to be. We're glad you joined Excelmale and hope you'll be an active member.

Thanks.

That is why I was willing to give a restart a try, because I feel that if it fails, I can transition to a sound protocol and great care.

 

[JakeH]

Day 12 without external testosterone. I have felt great the past week, but today is a bit dark, though I have not been able to sleep the past 4 nights, so it is probably a combination of hormones and sleep deprivation.

I am going to use Ambien tonight, because I need some sleep.

 

[johndoesmith]

You are in excellent hands with defy.

I'm curious, you never took AI? Your E2 was about the same on TRT as it was pre TRT.

 

[JakeH]

You are in excellent hands with defy.

I'm curious, you never took AI? Your E2 was about the same on TRT as it was pre TRT.

No, I never took one. I am interested to see what happens as I ramp up HCG for two weeks, and then hit the Clomid. That is to say, am I a hyper-converter or not. I plan to have a set of blood work done at the end of the HCG cycle, just to see what that does to my E2, Test, etc., and then have blood work run 14 days into the Clomid if I feel like my E2 is getting crazy.

 

[johndoesmith]

No, I never took one. I am interested to see what happens as I ramp up HCG for two weeks, and then hit the Clomid. That is to say, am I a hyper-converter or not. I plan to have a set of blood work done at the end of the HCG cycle, just to see what that does to my E2, Test, etc., and then have blood work run 14 days into the Clomid if I feel like my E2 is getting crazy.

Well, if the standard test is accurate for YOU(probably not, but it can be somewhat precise) and you didn't have significant E2 problems at 900, I'd say the chances are lessened.

I can't understand how your total and free test increasing that much had such a small effect on E2.

 

[JakeH]

Well, if the standard test is accurate for YOU(probably not, but it can be somewhat precise) and you didn't have significant E2 problems at 900, I'd say the chances are lessened.

I can't understand how your total and free test increasing that much had such a small effect on E2.

It is interesting that it increased so little. I had already lost 30 pounds by the baseline blood test, but I was drinking 4-5 alcoholic beverages a day, also, which I have since reduced to one. We shall see where it goes from here, though all future blood test will be LCMS.

 

[johndoesmith]

It is interesting that it increased so little. I had already lost 30 pounds by the baseline blood test, but I was drinking 4-5 alcoholic beverages a day, also, which I have since reduced to one. We shall see where it goes from here, though all future blood test will be LCMS.

Hmm. That makes even less sense.

You're with defy so they'll always order the proper test haha.

If you have insurance cover your labs ordered by defy ask them to put standard and sensitive E2 simultaneously. Mine was 21 and 28, standard was lower.

 

[JakeH]

Day 4 of HCG. Feeling really good so far. (Of note: my teticles are fuller than when I was only getting one HCG shot per week.)

My sleep patterns last week were terrible, but that has finally leveled out. I think that had more to do with the perfect storm of coming off Test Cyp and an impending court date, which led to higher anxiety.

My mental feeling has been comparable to my trough days while on TRT. That is to say, half the week I felt terrible and anxious, the other half I felt better. Either way, I think I do better at a lower levels of test.

ED has been responding to Cialis well. ED is what led me to the doctor in the first place. I still needed PDE5 on TRT, as it did not improve over the 4 months on and was quite unpredictable on TRT, so a wash in that department I suppose.

I am running a set of labs via Discountlabs.com on day 14 of HCG, just for the data point, but I will keep updating as the days go by.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Day 4 of HCG. Feeling really good so far. (Of note: my teticles are a fuller than when I was only getting one HCG shot per week.)

My sleep patterns last week were terrible, but that has finally leveled out. I think that had more to do with the perfect storm of coming off Test Cyp and an impending court date, which led to higher anxiety.

My mental feeling has been comparable to my trough days while on TRT. That is to say, half the week I felt terrible and anxious, the other half I felt better. Either way, I think I do better at a lower levels of test.

ED has been responding to Cialis well. ED is what led me to the doctor in the first place. I still needed PDE5 on TRT, as it did not improve over the 4 months on and was quite unpredictable on TRT, so a wash in that department I suppose.

I am running a set of labs via Discountlabs.com on day 14 of HCG, just for the data point, but I will keep updating as the days go by.

Just an observation on your comment that you felt terrible and anxious half the time when you were on a testosterone protocol. That's an indictment of your doctor and the protocol that was in place at the time; adjusting your dose/injection schedule could have resolved that challenge. Something to keep in mind if you do opt to return to testosterone injections at some point in the future.

Thank you for the ongoing progress reports.

 

[JakeH]

Just an observation on your comment that you felt terrible and anxious half the time when you were on a testosterone protocol. That's an indictment of your doctor and the protocol that was in place at the time; adjusting your dose/injection schedule could have resolved that challenge. Something to keep in mind if you do opt to return to testosterone injections at some point in the future.

Thank you for the ongoing progress reports.

That is what I kept telling the nurse and doctor, that the high initial spikes 24-72 hours post once-weekly injection was too much FOR ME. They were focused on getting a trough of 800-900, because that was "where he liked to keep his guys,"no matter the craziness and physical symptoms I endured, that subsided only by day 5,6,7.

 

[CoastWatcher]

That is what I kept telling the nurse and doctor, that the high initial spikes 24-72 hours post once-weekly injection was too much FOR ME. They were focused on getting a trough of 800-900, because that was "where he liked to keep his guys,"no matter the craziness and physical symptoms I endured, that subsided only by day 5,6,7.

You are a Defy patient now - the days of inept doctors are behind you. Thank goodness.

 

[JakeH]

Day 8. Yesterday and today have taken a noticeable turn downward. Extreme mental blah. Emotions all over the place. Even with high doses of Cialis I am losing erections and have penile "numbness." All of these symptoms are ones I had before TRT, when my estrogen to testosterone was around 1to5.

The only thing I can think of is my estrogen is climbing due to daily HCG shots.

I am going to try to get a quick order for Total, Free and Sensitive E2 from Defy today, for a test first thing Monday.

 

[johndoesmith]

Day 8. Yesterday and today have taken a noticeable turn downward. Extreme mental blah. Emotions all over the place. Even with high doses of Cialis I am losing erections and have penile "numbness." All of these symptoms are ones I had before TRT, when my estrogen to testosterone was around 1to5.

The only thing I can think of is my estrogen is climbing due to daily HCG shots.

I am going to try to get a quick order for Total, Free and Sensitive E2 from Defy today, for a test first thing Monday.

It's rather soon but Defy is pretty open to having labs drawn.

Call them today so you can get it and have it drawn monday.

 

[JakeH]

It's rather soon but Defy is pretty open to having labs drawn.

Call them today so you can get it and have it drawn monday.

It is pretty soon, but Melissa was concerned about my E2 from the beginning, so we planned for it when the Clomid starts, as she had a small amount of AI compounded with it, in order to be judicious and not drive it too low. She also prescribed separate AI to use if things got extra funky in the E2 area to try to manage it.

I emailed Chelsea to see if I could purchase the tests.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

A detailed journal so far JakeH, I've also seen the dialogue over on PeakT so kudos for logging your journey, both good and bad.

The above is correct, as a patient of ours you can order labs at any time. Calling the office directly is typically the most efficient route to start the process. Take care for now.

 

[JakeH]

A detailed journal so far JakeH, I've also seen the dialogue over on PeakT so kudos for logging your journey, both good and bad.

The above is correct, as a patient of ours you can order labs at any time. Calling the office directly is typically the most efficient route to start the process. Take care for now.

Thank you, Dr. Saya. I am trying to find the middle ground between logging pertinent details vs. navel gazing. It seems, and perhaps it perception bias, us forum guys can be hyper-sensitive to a fault.

I am mentally ready for the ups and downs and will soldier on. BUT I need to find a dose of tadalafil the works in the interim; the psychological and relational impact of intermittent ED is the worst.