Blood Sugar: Metformin and Berberine

[CSI007]

In regard to the A1c value - has Metformin been discussed?

We have discussed it. The first and only endo I went to see said that was what I needed to fix me up and my testosterone was nothing to worry about. :/

I have dragged my feet because I really don't want to take any more medication than absolutely needed. I wanted to give the T a chance to lower my blood sugar if it can before I added metformin (or an alternative) to the mix.

According to a few articles I have read, it seems that increasing T can reduce the FBG by as much as 20 points over the course of 2 or more years. That would get me back into normal range.

 

[baughts]

CSI007 there are some herbs that can help keep your sugar (glucose) under control. Here are 4 herbs but there are more, just do a google. Cinnamon, Turmeric, Gymnema and Ginger. My wife was diabetic for 6 or 8 years and by making big changes in our diet by cutting out white flour and sugar (much lower carbs) she was able to get off all medicines. Any herbs that you buy should be organic.

 

[Leesto]

CSI007 there are some herbs that can help keep your sugar (glucose) under control. Here are 4 herbs but there are more, just do a google. Cinnamon, Turmeric, Gymnema and Ginger. My wife was diabetic for 6 or 8 years and by making big changes in our diet by cutting out white flour and sugar (much lower carbs) she was able to get off all medicines. Any herbs that you buy should be organic.

Another one is Berberine. It has been compared to metformin as to effectiveness. I take 1000 mg per day. It helps to lower my glucose levels and HbA1c.

https://examine.com/supplements/berberine/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0083V8UB...=sr-1&keywords=berberine&tag=isparklbeyourbes

 

[CSI007]

Thanks guys.
If you read my other thread you know that I generally eat less then 30 carbs per day. Most coming from veggies, berries and cheese. This has had some impact on my FBG and A1C but not much over the past 3 1/2 years. I did manage to lose 40lbs though before I hit a brick wall and since starting TRT have gained about 15 of it back.

My typical days are 75% fat/15% protein and 10% carbs.

I tried an entire bottle of cinsulin (sp?) which is safe cinnamon. Had no impact on BG at all. The funny thing is,

I can eat a large meal with high carbs or sugar and my blood sugar will spike some and come back down quickly. Only once have I had a BG over 200 after a meal and I think I didn't wash my hands off well enough after eating a couple of sugar cookies.

With my current diet I should have been thrown back into the 80s an 90s of FBG. Something is screwed up in my body and it's thrown everything out of whack.

 

[CSI007]

Leesto,

I may give the Berberine a try. That looks really interesting and I had not heard about it before.

 

[Vince]

Leesto,

I may give the Berberine a try. That looks really interesting and I had not heard about it before.

The people I know, were disappointed with Berberine. Metformin I believe is a very benign drug, really worth taking, so may good qualities.
https://www.excelmale.com/tags.php?tag=metformin

 

[CSI007]

The people I know, were disappointed with Berberine. Metformin I believe is a very benign drug, really worth taking, so may good qualities.
https://www.excelmale.com/tags.php?tag=metformin

Reading about both last night. To be honest neither sounds particularly safe for long term use. Metformin seems to also cause down regulation over time in some people and becomes less an less effective.

Some studies on Berberine seem to indicate that it might cause DNA destruction and have mutational properties thus cancer possibilities particularly with regards to the liver.


<confused>

 

[Vince]

Reading about both last night. To be honest neither sounds particularly safe for long term use. Metformin seems to also cause down regulation over time in some people and becomes less an less effective.

Some studies on Berberine seem to indicate that it might cause DNA destruction and have mutational properties thus cancer possibilities particularly with regards to the liver.


<confused>

I started using Metformin-ER October 2013, 750mg twice a day since October 2013. I have only found it beneficial and for me no bad side effects.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Reading about both last night. To be honest neither sounds particularly safe for long term use. Metformin seems to also cause down regulation over time in some people and becomes less an less effective.

Some studies on Berberine seem to indicate that it might cause DNA destruction and have mutational properties thus cancer possibilities particularly with regards to the liver.


<confused>

You should never take a drug, a supplement, anything, that you aren't comfortable with. However, there is a significant long-term risk in not controlling blood sugar levels. I don't use Meformin, but did use Berberine for a time - was pleased, but decided to set it aside and increase my activity levels to see if (one last try) would bring things into line. They did respond. I would have turned to Metformin had those efforts failed as I strongly feel the benefits it can achieve outweigh potential risks.

 

[CSI007]

You should never take a drug, a supplement, anything, that you aren't comfortable with. However, there is a significant long-term risk in not controlling blood sugar levels. I don't use Meformin, but did use Berberine for a time - was pleased, but decided to set it aside and increase my activity levels to see if (one last try) would bring things into line. They did respond. I would have turned to Metformin had those efforts failed as I strongly feel the benefits it can achieve outweigh potential risks.

If I could actually get exercise going that would help me immensely. I had a BG of 124 right after dinner one night. Went for a walk and checked it after the 45 minute walk and it was down to upper 70s. So I know my body responds to exercise in a positive way where BG is concerned.

I agree though on the threat that is there with continue elevated BG. I certainly do not want to become diabetic that is why I change my eating lifestyle so drastically. Just not enough I guess. I used to consume at least 250 to 350 carbs per day (mostly fruit juices).

 

[Vince]

You should never take a drug, a supplement, anything, that you aren't comfortable with. However, there is a significant long-term risk in not controlling blood sugar levels. I don't use Meformin, but did use Berberine for a time - was pleased, but decided to set it aside and increase my activity levels to see if (one last try) would bring things into line. They did respond. I would have turned to Metformin had those efforts failed as I strongly feel the benefits it can achieve outweigh potential risks.

What affect did Berberine have on your A1c and when you stop using Berberine how high did it rise?

 

[CoastWatcher]

What affect did Berberine have on your A1c and when you stop using Berberine how high did it rise?

I had climbed from 5.3 to 5.6 and Berberine dropped it to 5.4. It now rides at 5.3/5.4 w/out intervention.

 

[CSI007]

It really looks like you have to find the right manufacturer of Berberine. Also appears that Milk Thistle is a synergist and helps the body absorb it better.

 

[Vince]

Ask The Herbalist: Berberine Herbs Warnings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO5c2L8CsDQ
Of course I don't know if this is true?

 

[CSI007]

Ask The Herbalist: Berberine Herbs Warnings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO5c2L8CsDQ
Of course I don't know if this is true?

There was some studies done in vitro with doses approaching normal human dosages on cells. I think this is where many of the warnings have come from. Of course, you can make anything toxic to cells in a test tube including water!

 

[CSI007]

Ask The Herbalist: Berberine Herbs Warnings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO5c2L8CsDQ
Of course I don't know if this is true?

Interesting thoughts on that video. I had heard there is a possibility of that occurring with regards to intestinal flora but he seems sure about it.

 

[CSI007]

Here is some more good info on it.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0042529

Due to the evident clinical therapeutic effects of berberine for diabetes and dyslipidemia [15], [18], the mechanisms involved in its beneficial effects against metabolic disorders have attracted much attention in recent years. In this study, we demonstrated that berberine co-administration at a dose of 100 mg/kg body weight effectively prevented the weight gain and development of insulin resistance induced by long-term HFD feeding. No obvious side effects were observed in the present study. As extrapolated using the body surface area normalization method [37], such dose is equivalent to about 1.0 g/day/person in humans. In a previous human trial, we also confirmed that oral administration of berberine at such a dose of 1.0 g/day/person for 3 months is effective and safe in the treatment of type 2 diabetes and dyslipidemia [15].

They go into detail on the gut flora issue with the herb. Seems like it has significant impact but only on certain species of bacteria most notably some Lactobacillus.

Reading further, some therorize that maybe that is the primary reason it works. It is affecting the gut microbes in a positive way. Clear out the bad and keep the good?

 

[CSI007]

Another one is Berberine. It has been compared to metformin as to effectiveness. I take 1000 mg per day. It helps to lower my glucose levels and HbA1c.

https://examine.com/supplements/berberine/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0083V8UB...=sr-1&keywords=berberine&tag=isparklbeyourbes

Leesto,
How long have you been taking the herb? How significant was your FBG drop? Any side effects?

 

[Leesto]

Reading further, some therorize that maybe that is the primary reason it works. It is affecting the gut microbes in a positive way. Clear out the bad and keep the good?

Interesting discussion.

I take 1000 mg per day and have been doing so for quite some time. It has helped my blood glucose level and lowered my HbA1C. I have not noticed any side effects at all. That doesn't mean there aren't any, just none that I can notice or identify. I do keep careful notes when changing meds or supplements or protocol.

 

[Leesto]

Leesto,
How long have you been taking the herb? How significant was your FBG drop? Any side effects?

I've been taking it for about a year. 1000 mg per day. No side effects that I have been able to notice. FBG drop was around 50. I had already been on Metformin and the keto diet which lowered my FBG to about 190. Adding berberine lowered it to about 140. Further dietary restrictions and some weight training have brought it to about 110 - 120. That's still higher than normal but much better than where I was at a year ago. At one point my FBG was over 500 and HbA1C was 13.5. The most recent HbA1C was 5.9.