Attempting a Restart - again....

[GettingAnswers]

Well here we go again. Currently in the middle of a restart attempt. Brief summary.....

I've been on trt for three years. I started because I had all the symptoms even though my TT was in the 400s. Turns out it was issues with benzos that I was on at the time but by the time I figured that out I was on trt.

Anyway I tried a restart about a year ago but I was in the throes of withdrawal after a long taper off benzos and the physical and mental issues associated with low t and clomid on top of the benzo issues was just too much.

Now I am in a much better place and decided to give it a go again before committing to a life of shots. I am optimistic but have no doubt this might not work for a 41 year old.

I have used HCG all along so hopefully that will help. I also respond well to just HCG so the question is whether I can get my pituitary to kick back in. That is the big hang up because my LH has always been a tad below range even when I was in my twenties.

To date. I did 15 days of HCG along with tamoxifen. I initially did 20mg tamoxifen but I switched to 10mg because I noticed I actually had more nocturnal erections at the lower dose. Five days ago I dropped the HCG and added in 50mg clomid.

Been feeling weak and tired (but I did have the flu) and my blood pressure has been high the past couple of days (clomid?). Erections have become nonexistent too and my mood has been a little short tempered.

Sorry for rambling just figured I would start a thread to see how it goes.

 

[GettingAnswers]

Well I stopped the clomid and have continued with the tamoxifen. I was just feeling completely off and moody, and sleeping poorly. For whatever reason the clomid really seems to throw me for a loop. I have a blood draw in a few days to see if the old pituitary is doing anything.

 

[SuperDutyDave]

Be interested to see what happens......I tried Clomid restart a couple times over course of a year....my numbers came up with full dosage but as I tapered so did my numbers

Even when numbers were up..... Raw TT 319...... With Clomid TT 550 But symptoms were still unresolved. Moved on to TRT and now in 800's and feel much better

Hope it works for you...I would love to go back to natural but really doubt I could achieve even 400 naturally now at 50

 

[GettingAnswers]

I've always been low 400s even in my early 20s. I often wonder if my body adjusted to those levels and somehow doesn't know what to do with more. I mean. Someone who always had high levels and then plummeted would really benefit. Someone like me who was always mediocre doesn't feel the benefits of more as much. I'm over a month into the restart and I really don't feel that much different than when I was on. Well, i have felt like crap but I have had the flu and now a nasty cold so it has been masking things.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I am yet to meet someone who feels better through a PCT protocol. That is why many stay on TRT instead.

 

[Vettester Chris]

Agree with Nelson ... Usually don't see too many super success stories.

 

[GettingAnswers]

Chris and Nelson if the way I am feeling now is an indication of how well it is going then I have a feeling I will be back on very shortly. I'm more anxious, moody, lost weight, weak, and it feels like my penis has shriveled up, and the wife isn't too happy with my lack of interest. I'm getting blood done tomorrow to see if there has been any response.

I guess what it comes down to is that I went on it when I probably didn't need to because of a misdiagnosis and I hate the feeling that I have to be on it for life when I didn't need to in the beginning. I've probably ruined my chances at getting back to where I was but I figured I really should try. That and I despise donating blood cause it knocks me in my butt for days !!!!

 

[Vettester Chris]

GA, we'll be here for you regardless if your attempt succeeds or not ... During this process, win or lose, you gain more knowledge and discover the the things that work and that don't. Your experiences will no doubt be useful for others going through a similar situation down the road.

 

[GettingAnswers]

Decision time. I have been on the restart over a month. Still waiting on testosterone results but

LH 1.6 (1.5-9.3)
FSH 1.3 (1.4-18.1)

So. The nolvadex and clomid managed to get my LH just above bottom of the range. Even if it stayed at that level I doubt that is enough to get T production going.

plus isn't it supposed to bump it up pretty high and then it settles back into a decent range? Assuming mine will fall some then I think this is pointless.

The only thing I could do better is take higher doses of the serm s but honestly higher doses of either one turn me into a literal sobbing wreck that feels like shit.

Thoughts??

 

[SuperDutyDave]

Your numbers look similar to mine.....I had low LH and FSH. Clomid got them up to mid-range and my T levels got up to the mid-500's but symptoms persisted. I made decision to go on TRT and its been good since.

 

[GettingAnswers]

Except the clomid didn't even get mine up to mid range!!!

Decision time. I have been on the restart over a month. Still waiting on testosterone results but

LH 1.6 (1.5-9.3)
FSH 1.3 (1.4-18.1)

So. The nolvadex and clomid managed to get my LH just above bottom of the range. Even if it stayed at that level I doubt that is enough to get T production going.

plus isn't it supposed to bump it up pretty high and then it settles back into a decent range? Assuming mine will fall some then I think this is pointless.

The only thing I could do better is take higher doses of the serm s but honestly higher doses of either one turn me into a literal sobbing wreck that feels like shit.

Thoughts??

 

[Vettester Chris]

Yeah, those numbers are suppressed. You would be lucky to see a test serum level of 200-250ng/dl with that LH value.

I suggest you look at a TRT program and move forward ... JMHO

 

[GettingAnswers]

Thanks Chris. I Think I break out the brand new bottle of test cyp I have in the cabinet and end this misery haha

 

[SuperDutyDave]

I was trying to tell you.....I think Clomid is pretty much a waste your numbers did nothing mine came up some but ultimate gauge symptoms mine remained and it appears so have yours.......so time to go back on trt

That said I would look at a more comprehensive treat plan vs just grabbing the bottle of T-Cyp.

 

[GettingAnswers]

No worries I'm not gonna just starting shooting random doses! I've been on TRT for almost three years and know doses and frequencies needed and I run HCG with it as well. Have a doc that is up to speed on all things too.

This restart was to see if I could do without the trt. Looks like I can't so back on the old regimen I go!!

Thanks a bunch for all the input.

 

[GettingAnswers]

Just as some more confirmation I received my TT results

99 (240-900) LOW as hell!!!

Restart fail!!!! and no wonder I have felt like complete and utter hell.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

"Restarting" protocols that attempt to accelerate the recovery of the HPT axis is often not successful in men who have used TRT or anabolics long term, specially in older men and those who started TRT with very low baseline total testosterone blood levels.

It it is unfortunate that we have no controlled studies about HPTA restart or PCT ( post-cycle therapies) comparing them with unassisted HPTA reset.

 

[SuperDutyDave]

Nelson

Live learn.....most of us never really knew what are natural "normal" level of T was when we felt good. We didn't get tested until we had symptoms.....and for most of us symptoms that were very pronounced and lasting....therefore we never got to know what healthy normal was.

I tried Clomid restart never took and that was prior to doing any TRT and being mid40's but having some related health issues from adrenal fatigue etc.

Dr.John fixed me with a proper TRT program and life's better.....but it is life long treatment

Knowing now what I know........I will have my son tested when he reaches full maturity so he will have good baseline numbers for his life time

 

[GettingAnswers]

Any issues with estrogen rebound or anything when starting the shots again and stopping the nolvadex?