Arimidex

[James]

Hey guys:

What's the best time after an injection to take Arimidex? Some guys have said test peaks about 72 hours after injection, so take Arimidex 48 hours after since it's in your system for only a couple days. Others say they take it with their injection or later that night. Others take it the morning after an Injection. Yet a few say they take it 24 hours before their injection, and seem to have a logical reason for that protocol. What do you guys do? When do you take AI, in relation to your injection.

Thanks.

 

[Superman]

i take it 24 hours after injection which for me is monday mornings and thursday evenings

 

[Vince Carter]

You'll have to make your own choices knowing the half-life of TCyp, ~72hrs, and Anastrozole is ~50hrs. Timing is something you have to test and make informed decisions. For me I inject EOD due to low SHBG, I take my anastrozole on injection day. 24hrs after, 48hrs after, thats up to you, listen to your body and get tested and you'll figure something out.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Just a simple reminder:

Do not take anastrozole unless your estradiol via sensitive assay is over 45 pg/mL (before treatment and on TRT). If you do, your sex drive, cognitive function and bones could suffer.

How to Predict Estradiol and DHT at Different Testosterone Doses

I was able to come up with a table using the predictive model equation derived from data in this study: The Effects of Injected Testosterone Dose and Age on the Conversion of Testosterone to Estradiol and Dihydrotestosterone in Young and Older Men Summary This video discusses a research paper...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Vince Carter]

Im coming around to Nelson's position on Estradiol and Aromatase Inhibitors, basing primarily on the T:E ratio.

I'm down to taking .15mg of Anastrozole, just once per week.

 

[James]

I'd love to not be on it, but I get crazy anxiety and depression the first few days after my injection and then I feel better. Do you guys have any idea what that could be caused by if not E2? That's the mystery for me!

 

[CoastWatcher]

I'd love to not be on it, but I get crazy anxiety and depression the first few days after my injection and then I feel better. Do you guys have any idea what that could be caused by if not E2? That's the mystery for me!

Have you measured your E2 during those first days post-injection?

 

[Vince Carter]

sounds plausible on the timing of symptoms that you could have an E2 spike. How much TCyp are you injecting and how often?

 

[HarryCat]

Just a simple reminder:

Do not take anastrozole unless your estradiol via sensitive assay is over 45 pg/mL (before treatment and on TRT). If you do, your sex drive, cognitive function and bones could suffer.

Using what assay?

The top of the range for the quest ultra sensitive test is 30 pg/mL. I've been at 40 the past couple of times I've been tested which puts me 33% over the top of the reference range. My doc had me start on low does anastrozole to get it down.

 

[Vince Carter]

Using what assay?

The top of the range for the quest ultra sensitive test is 30 pg/mL. I've been at 40 the past couple of times I've been tested which puts me 33% over the top of the reference range. My doc had me start on low does anastrozole to get it down.

The LC/MS/MS sensitive assay. There's a belief that overuse of Anastrozole, or E2 management isn't necessary until it reaches 45. Contrary to the popular thought on E2 management of 21-30 on that assay.

There's a belief if you're treating numbers on a test, absent symptoms, that that is not a best practice.

Im trying to not speak for Nelson but I've been studying his position on E2 management.

 

[CoastWatcher]

The LC/MS/MS sensitive assay. There's a belief that overuse of Anastrozole, or E2 management isn't necessary until it reaches 45. Contrary to the popular thought on E2 management of 21-30 on that assay.

There's a belief if you're treating numbers on a test, absent symptoms, that that is not a best practice.

Im trying to not speak for Nelson but I've been studying his position on E2 management.

LabCorp's range on the Sensitive LC/MS/MS assay is 8.0-35.0 mg/mL. My own doctor, I have learned, feels that may be too conservative - as Nelson and Vince note. She is allowing/encouraging a higher E2 value as she totally supports the concept of testosterone/estradiol ratio as being critically important. My own estradiol has crept up recently, but so has my total test - I feel quite good.

 

[Vince Carter]

Im investigating the higher E2 as so many guys still complain of low libido and/or ED (primarily), it's either the Anastrozole effect or just plain E2 to low. E2 may be low in relation to the T, the ratio should be tighter.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Im investigating the higher E2 as so many guys still complain of low libido and/or ED (primarily), it's either the Anastrozole effect or just plain E2 to low. E2 may be low in relation to the T, the ratio should be tighter.

As I started down the TRT highway, I was spooked into believing there was something sacred about a total E2 range between 20-30 pg/mL. I think a lot of guys are like that and it's very easy to fall into treating a number, as you noted, rather than a symptom. It's also easier for the TRT clinics to simply prescribe the AI and send guys on their way. In my case, my E2 was as miserably low as my total test at the beginning of this process. I believe it's been necessary to bring both up, dramatically, in order for my symptoms to improve.

My most recent total test/trough was 733 and my most recent estradiol was 31.8. I was told to relax and enjoy the fact that I'm feeling good.

 

[HarryCat]

Well, I certainly can't argue that if you feel good you need to worry about it, but I feel like crap and have no sex drive with my E2 at 40. Not sure if this is the cause or not, but I'll find out what the anastrozole is doing to me in about a month.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Well, I certainly can't argue that if you feel good you need to worry about it, but I feel like crap and have no sex drive with my E2 at 40. Not sure if this is the cause or not, but I'll find out what the anastrozole is doing to me in about a month.

What is your total test, HarryCat? And what is your TRT protocol? My apologies if you addressed those questions earlier.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I have read all papers published on estradiol in men.

There is only one in which men's average testosterone was 320 ng/dL that found out that those with estradiol under 12 and over 35 had increased cardiovascular mortality. This 12-35 pg/mL range could have been higher had the average testosterone be where most of us on TRT keep ours (over 500 ng/dL).

If we divide 320/12: Ratio of 27

320/35: ratio of 9

Let's assume TT had been 600 ng/dL

For a ratio of 9 we need 100 pg/mL estradiol

For a ratio of 27: we would need 22 pg/mL

This is speculative math game playing to show that the estradiol "range" that seem to rule many guys on this and many forums may be based on studies where most men had lower total testosterone blood levels, and thus lower estradiol blood levels.

Treating estradiol in the absence of symptoms is not smart. Also, there is no such a thing as a estradiol sweet spot.

 

[sportsfan8724]

I have read all papers published on estradiol in men.

There is only one in which men's average testosterone was 320 ng/dL that found out that those with estradiol under 12 and over 35 had increased cardiovascular mortality. This 12-35 pg/mL range could have been higher had the average testosterone be where most of us on TRT keep ours (over 500 ng/dL).

If we divide 320/12: Ratio of 27

320/35: ratio of 9

Let's assume TT had been 600 ng/dL

For a ratio of 9 we need 100 pg/mL estradiol

For a ratio of 27: we would need 22 pg/mL

This is speculative math game playing to show that the estradiol "range" that seem to rule many guys on this and many forums may be based on studies where most men had lower total testosterone blood levels, and thus lower estradiol blood levels.

Treating estradiol in the absence of symptoms is not smart. Also, there is no such a thing as a estradiol sweet spot.

Nelson this e2 thing seems more confusing then ever. So are saying the level doesn't matter at all? I'm very interested to hear more about this and hcg in the podcast next week so hopefully it will make more clear sense.

 

[ERO]

The level is only important in the context of the ratio. A ratio says how much of one thing there is compared to another thing.

Or to think of it another way - how could a fixed E2 range of 12 to 35 be the ideal for everyone, unless everyone fell into the exact same Total T range?

For example, if my total T is 600, would an E2 level of 35 be the same if instead my total T was 1200? Of course not - the ratio is totally different.

Nelson can likely do a better job of explaining.

 

[lutherdingle2]

Let's assume TT had been 600 ng/dL

For a ratio of 9 we need 100 pg/mL estradiol

Shouldn't that be 66 pg/mL? If so, the range is still significant. If not, I'm not good at math.

 

[James]

It's going to be interesting to see how this topic of estradiol and Arimidex shakes out over the next five to ten years. You have some pretty qualified individuals and physicians who specialize in testosterone replacement therapy who have radically different opinions on this topic. What the ideal estradiol level/range should be in men, the correct dose of Arimidex based on labs and reported symptoms, standard test vs sensitive test. It'll be fun to see what happens. We may look at things totally different in a few years.