Arimidex? Do we need it?

[ef88]

So I'm getting closer to being prescribed HRT. I did another blood test and total T is 271, the initial was 240.

Both sad numbers. I am talking to a clinic and have my consultation on Saturday. If all goes well, I'll get Test Cypionate, HCG, and arimidex.

I'm concerned with the AI. My main concerning symptoms are no libido and ED issues. From what I know, estrogen plays a huge role in this. Will crushing Estrogen levels make it even worse? Or am I ok since my Testosterone will be much higher than the 200's and enough will be converted to estrogen?

 

[madman]

So I'm getting closer to being prescribed HRT. I did another blood test and total T is 271, the initial was 240.

Both sad numbers. I am talking to a clinic and have my consultation on Saturday. If all goes well, I'll get Test Cypionate, HCG, and arimidex.

I'm concerned with the AI. My main concerning symptoms are no libido and ED issues. From what I know, estrogen plays a huge role in this. Will crushing Estrogen levels make it even worse? Or am I ok since my Testosterone will be much higher than the 200's and enough will be converted to estrogen?

Sounds like a T-mill and if they prescribe an aromatase inhibitor of the hop then they will most likely be starting you on a high dose of T 200 mg/week.

I would be cautious here and first off avoid the A.I. and regarding T dose the best piece of advice is to start low and go slow.

Chances are they will be starting you on a high-dosed T from the get-go and throwing in an AI is standard practice as they very well know such a dose of T will skyrocket your TT/FT/e2 levels.

Having healthy estradiol levels is critical as it plays a significant role when it comes to libido/erections, brain/cardiovascular/bone/immune system health.

AIs are potent and can easily result in crashing estradiol even when running absurdly high T levels!

Most in the know on trt + AI are using micro-doses to manage elevated e2.

The most sensible piece of advice is to start low and go slow to see how your body reacts to a T only protocol and where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has your trough TT/FT/e2 levels let alone other blood markers such as RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.

Also, keep in mind that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

The only way to know where your FT truly sits is to have it tested using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration.

Critical to know where your SHBG sits as not only will it have a significant impact on TT/FT but can also dictate what injection frequency may suit you best.

 

[Gman86]

That’s easy. Start the protocol on testosterone only, ideally, and dial that in by itself. But it’s not the worst idea to start with test and HCG together. A little risky trying to dial in 2 compounds at the same time when starting out, but still not the worst idea. But whatever u do, DO NOT take the ai from the beginning. Dial in without it the best u can. If down the road u’ve tried everything and u think high E2 is possibly ur issue, u can then at least try a small dose of ai to see if u feel better or worse. But whatever u do, do not take the ai from the beginning. That would probably be the worst mistake u can make when starting out on TRT/ HRT

 

[ef88]

I do not want an AI. I am not afraid of Estrogen. Super high....yes bad, but LOW...just as bad and worse for some things. Are there any threads on here that discuss how to dose and dial in a test only protocol? I want to use the least amount of T per week that yields the best benefits and least side effects. It's still scary to me and frustrating due to my age. But I can't stand the way I feel and perform for the past few years. I'm not me, or at least what I envision me to be.

 

[Gman86]

Exactly. Estrogen has immense health benefits and definitely should not be feared. You’re spot on in regards to ur view on E2. Too high no good (how high varies person to person), too low definitely worse than too high.

Dialing in T only is easy. Would start with 80-100mg/ week, split into twice weekly injections or every other day injections. Inject IM. See how u feel after a few months. If u really don’t feel well on that protocol and can’t wait a few months, just bump the dose up 10-20mg and see how u feel in another 6-8 weeks. Longer if ur patient enough and can go longer without changing anything. And do that until u feel pretty optimized

If u end up at a dose where u start to feel worse, I would back ur dose down to the last dose that u felt ur best at so far, and then look into addressing other deficiencies u may have. Like DHEA, progesterone, Pregnenolone, and u can then add in HCG to see if it makes u feel better or worse

 

[ef88]

I'm not crazily impatient. In all honesty, I'm scared. I don't think I'm going to die or have heart failure or any of the crazy stuff. It's just a crazy realization that at 32 my levels are so low. I've never touched an anabolic and don't do anything to impact it that much. Oh well.

I can start off low. 100mg/week seems good. It'll be better than where I'm at now anyways. I'll stick with my herbal supplements as well; maca, ashwaghanda, dhea, citrilline.

As far as dosing HCG, I'll have to sort that out too. This is a stupid question, but the testosterone will come in a 200mg/ml vial right? a vial per week? or in my case, half a vial split up? I want to use insulin syringes as well. Do you just throw away the residual waste in the vial?

 

[Gman86]

Don’t get too caught up with ur age or being on it forever. I was 27 when I had to start. And I look at being on HRT as a blessing, not a burden. I feel beyond lucky that I was able to start monitoring and balancing my hormones at such a young age, and having steady test levels has been a miracle. I no longer have ups and downs mood wise when I don’t get enough sleep or am stressed or don’t eat the best. I’m an eternal optimist 24/7 now with 24/7 motivation and depressed thoughts don’t even enter my mind anymore. Before HRT when negative things would happen I would get bummed out and slightly depressed. Now, negative things happen and I just think of a gameplan/ solution to the negative situation and execute it and move on. Stuff just doesn’t get to me like it did before HRT. Obv results may vary, but that’s just been my experience and what HRT has done for me. So I feel extremely lucky to be on it, and feel extremely lucky that I hopefully get to be on it for life

Most test cyp vials come in 10ml vials. And they’re usually 200mg/ ml. So the whole vial will have 2000mg in it total. If you get the test from a compounding pharmacy, they sometimes have 5ml vials. Those are also 200mg/ ml. So they would have 1000mg of test in them total

and yes, just use an insulin syringe. I’ve used many different gauge needles, and I prefer 27 gauge 1/2” insulin syringes. I like the easy touch brand. I tried 28 gauge but they draw up a little too slow for my liking. 27 gauge is perfect, and u barely feel it.

 

[ef88]

You all are helping me feel good about this. Or better. I do wonder if my mood will be better as well. I'll admit that I'm bitchy about lots of things. And it's definitely gotten worse the past few years.

Regarding needles, I keep leaning towards the 1/2" insulin syringes. 27 gauge sounds good. I think I'm going to inject twice a week, 50mg each time. And see how I feel. I'm assuming anything at this point will be better than my current state.

 

[Gman86]

Again, everyone’s results may vary, but testosterone is the best mood enhancing compound in the world, imo. There’s nothing that comes close to testosterone, when it comes to consistently feeling stable and calm and in a good mood and just feeling like u can handle life properly and be the person u want to be around others. Ime testosterone, and just balanced hormones in general, allow u to express and be the person that u want to be. When I had low T, I knew how I wanted to act and react and be around people, but I wasn’t able to express myself properly. I knew I should be calm, but maybe I would be nervous or anxious. I knew I didn’t want to be irritable or short with people, but I just couldn’t help it. I knew I was happy and my life was great, but I just didn’t feel that way inside and couldn’t come off like I was super happy. I knew certain things weren’t a big deal, but I couldn’t help overreacting and making things into bigger deals than they needed to be. Being on HRT just allows me to be and express myself exactly how I feel on the inside, and how I know I am and want to be, and I treat people and situations how I want to. It’s hard to explain, but it’s subtle things that for me have been a life saver. I’ve been on HRT for 8 years and still can’t believe that one hormone can control and effect all these things. It doesn’t seem real or believable until u experience it for urself.

When I was 27 and had a bunch of low T symptoms, my total T was mid to high 600’s. And being on HRT transformed me and gave me my life back. It’s been a god send for me. So if it’s made that much of a difference for me, with total T levels of almost 700 prior to being on HRT, I would imagine with u currently sitting at a total T of less than 300, ur results will be as dramatic as mine were, possibly even more so. I was legit barely functioning with a total T of almost 700, so idk how ur functioning as well as u are with a total T in the 200’s. I give u a ton of credit lol

 

[M.J]

I wasted my time trying to manage estrogen and taken arimidix. Thinking I will find the sweet spot turns out there is no such thing and libido and everything else doesn’t depend on estrogen only.

 

[Gman86]

I wasted my time trying to manage estrogen and taken arimidix. Thinking I will find the sweet spot turns out there is no such thing and libido and everything else doesn’t depend on estrogen only.

How u doing currently? How did u end up dialing in ur protocol?

 

[Match]

Meu E2 é 32 pg / ml
T 637
Tomo apenas 0,25 Anastrazol a cada 5 dias, pois 32 não está tao alto

 

[M.J]

How u doing currently? How did u end up dialing in ur protocol?

Currently doing 75mg once weekly and 500hcg EOD.

recently I am trying to lower hcg felt good but not sure if it’s temporary or permanent have to give it some time.

regarding dialing in I am not sure if you can call this dialed in as I have issue in libido and no morning wood. Erection is not that good also.

I am not sure how to get dialed in as I trying many different t dosage and I always end up with the same no libido no interest in sex.

now trying to play around with hcg let’s see.

 

[M.J]

How u doing currently? How did u end up dialing in ur protocol?

But I am not doing any arimidix any more. It’s feels pretty much the same maybe a bit better.
unless there is symptoms I don’t see the point of taking arimidix.

also if you think of it honeymoon periods comes regardless of estrogen level I had it many time during changing protocols and I was not on AI. So does really lowering estrogen help ? I am not buying this anymore.

 

[Gman86]

But I am not doing any arimidix any more. It’s feels pretty much the same maybe a bit better.
unless there is symptoms I don’t see the point of taking arimidix.

also if you think of it honeymoon periods comes regardless of estrogen level I had it many time during changing protocols and I was not on AI. So does really lowering estrogen help ? I am not buying this anymore.

An ai 100% helps some people. I’ve just read way too many anecdotes of guys finally getting the full effects of TRT and feeling how they thought they should feel once they implemented a small amount of ai. Could they have gotten to this place without it, possibly. Do they know how without an ai, no. Do they feel amazing with the small amount of ai, and horrible without it, yes. Ai’s definitely have there place. But I think everyone would agree that it’s much better to try and get dialed in without it, if possible. I’m personally trying to exhaust all options I can think of, in regards to dialing in, before implemented an ai again. It’s going to be the very last thing I try, if needed. Currently dialing in my progesterone and IGF-1 levels

Progesterone can control, to a certain degree, the conversion of testosterone into DHT and E2. I have a loose theory that I was thinking about. I was wondering if progesterone might be a factor in why young men can handle high androgen levels without any side effects or hair loss (for the most part). Young natural males will still have plenty of progesterone to balance out DHT and E2 levels, in relation to their testosterone levels. While men on TRT tend to have very low progesterone levels, due to most of a males progesterone being produced in their testicles, and unless they’re on HCG, their testicles are basically shut down, and consequently their progesterone levels are mostly shut down as well, and not being their to possibly balance out DHT and E2 levels, resulting in side effects and hair loss. Again, all theoretical. Just something I’ve been tossing around

 

[drpub2112]

Again, everyone’s results may vary, but testosterone is the best mood enhancing compound in the world, imo. There’s nothing that comes close to testosterone, when it comes to consistently feeling stable and calm and in a good mood and just feeling like u can handle life properly and be the person u want to be around others. Ime testosterone, and just balanced hormones in general, allow u to express and be the person that u want to be. When I had low T, I knew how I wanted to act and react and be around people, but I wasn’t able to express myself properly. I knew I should be calm, but maybe I would be nervous or anxious. I knew I didn’t want to be irritable or short with people, but I just couldn’t help it. I knew I was happy and my life was great, but I just didn’t feel that way inside and couldn’t come off like I was super happy. I knew certain things weren’t a big deal, but I couldn’t help overreacting and making things into bigger deals than they needed to be. Being on HRT just allows me to be and express myself exactly how I feel on the inside, and how I know I am and want to be, and I treat people and situations how I want to. It’s hard to explain, but it’s subtle things that for me have been a life saver. I’ve been on HRT for 8 years and still can’t believe that one hormone can control and effect all these things. It doesn’t seem real or believable until u experience it for urself.

When I was 27 and had a bunch of low T symptoms, my total T was mid to high 600’s. And being on HRT transformed me and gave me my life back. It’s been a god send for me. So if it’s made that much of a difference for me, with total T levels of almost 700 prior to being on HRT, I would imagine with u currently sitting at a total T of less than 300, ur results will be as dramatic as mine were, possibly even more so. I was legit barely functioning with a total T of almost 700, so idk how ur functioning as well as u are with a total T in the 200’s. I give u a ton of credit lol

Hi Gman86, do you mind talking about your dosage an total T numbers now? I know you saw my other post where I mentioned that my natural production shot up to 769 after optimizing Pregnenolone. I've been sick for so long that I'm extremely tempted to at least do a long cycle of cypionate. I'd like to have 1000 T levels for a while and see if that clears up the anxiety and depression.

The big jump from the 400s in to the 700s was only 4 weeks ago but I don't feel any better yet. I'm seriously tempted to just try it.

My issue is that I don't understand it enough because I've never done it before. I got a online trt doc and got everything shipped before I knew my new numbers. My TT was 431 last month when I signed up, now I have test, hcg, and adex sitting here and my starting number is about 770. Will a small 100mg/wk trial add to my current levels? Or will it just suppress my own production and keep me flat where I already am? I think I read somewhere that anything less than 200mg/week just isn't worth it. What are your thoughts?

 

[CKO]

I feel pretty bad if my E2 creeps up, so an AI is important for me. 1/8th arimidex x 2-3 a week.