Anything Different About Working Out on TRT?

[bkb33]

Hi all,

I will soon begin my first round of TRT (200 mg t-cyp). I have high TT, but also astronomical SHBG (> 100), so much of it is bound. I think my wacky hormones are the biggest reason that, despite weight training 5-6 times a week and eating well for nine years, I have made minimal gains (6'2", 175 lbs, 11.5% BF, recent image attached). Every time I've tried to put on weight, I've just gotten fat -- it's gone straight to my midsection.

My workouts have felt stale lately, as I've been dejected by my lack of progress over the years (seriously, 6'2", 175?!). TRT has given me new hope that it is possible for me to make gains and attain the muscular physique I've always sought.

What I'm wondering is, what changes did you observe in your workouts when you started TRT? Did you adjust your programming? I've tried just about every split in the book, but I'm excited to experience resistance training with T flowing more freely in my system.

I work out in my home gym, with a rack, bench, hex bar, pull-up bar, and a bunch of free weights, and primarily focus on the compounds. Any recommendations on splits? I'm open to whatever has worked for you!

Thanks, guys!

 

[Airborne Warrior]

I assume you're going to be on quite a hefty dose with such high SHBG. You definitely should see a change but don't expect miracles on such low doses. It also depends on how your body responds to excess T. Some can get quite big on 250mg per week whilst others only see marginal gains on that dose.

 

[madman]

Hi all,

I will soon begin my first round of TRT (200 mg t-cyp). I have high TT, but also astronomical SHBG (> 100), so much of it is bound. I think my wacky hormones are the biggest reason that, despite weight training 5-6 times a week and eating well for nine years, I have made minimal gains (6'2", 175 lbs, 11.5% BF, recent image attached). Every time I've tried to put on weight, I've just gotten fat -- it's gone straight to my midsection.

My workouts have felt stale lately, as I've been dejected by my lack of progress over the years (seriously, 6'2", 175?!). TRT has given me new hope that it is possible for me to make gains and attain the muscular physique I've always sought.

What I'm wondering is, what changes did you observe in your workouts when you started TRT? Did you adjust your programming? I've tried just about every split in the book, but I'm excited to experience resistance training with T flowing more freely in my system.

I work out in my home gym, with a rack, bench, hex bar, pull-up bar, and a bunch of free weights, and primarily focus on the compounds. Any recommendations on splits? I'm open to whatever has worked for you!

Thanks, guys!

Depending on the individual most with naturally higher SHBG need to run a higher TT in order to achieve a healthy FT and even than your FT will not be extremely high especially having high SHBG (sure it may come down some on trt) but no one can say for sure how much SHBG will lower.

Even if you need to user a higher end trt dose (200 mg/week) in order to achieve healthy testosterone levels.....diet/training will be key regarding gaining muscle mass.

On trt you will definitely notice changes in body composition (muscle gains/fat loss) and improved recovery as long as you are training and eating right but it will not be significant as we are not using steroid doses.

On trt if one has descent genetics, followings a good training protocol and has their diet in check you will definitely see mild gains in muscle but do not expect a major body transformation using trt doses.

In order for oner to truly see significant gains in muscle/strength steroid doses of testosterone (300-600 mg/week) would be needed and even than gains would be much better when using doses close to the higher end 500-600 mg/week.

Also understand that regardless of whether one was training naturally and had healthy T levels or one is using exogenous T (trt) when trying to gain muscle mass one is in a caloric surplus and even if you eat clean and add in HIIT you are still going to gain some body fat along with the muscle....so do not expect to be big and lean on trt!

The men walking around with a significant amount of muscle mass that are big and ripped are either blasting/cruising high doses of testosterone/AAS or cycling steroids.

If trt doses truly resulted in significant gains in muscle.....no one would ever use/abuse testosterone/AAS in high doses!

 

[maxadvance]

200mg per week to start sounds right, hopefully your shbg will drop with the exogenous T. Even though you look like you're in great shape recovery between workouts should improve. I'd recommend compounds with progressive overloads to see if you can jumpstart some muscle mass. Bench 4 sets for 4-6 reps with that last rep being 1 -2 reps before failure, same for military press and dumbbell inclines. Squats and deads are more about form and and I'd recommend volume over max weights for those. 20-30 minutes cardio per week should be enough for you.

My bench went from pressing maybe a rep or 2 at 185 2 years ago to being able to do 5 reps of 275 today. Doing what i described above, and all at a max dose of 200mg in 2 pins per week. At 55 years old.

 

[fifty]

I gained 10-15 lbs on 160mg/wk (6 month period). Red blood cell count went way up too so cardio/intervals are easier (get less winded).

 

[at15]

for someone on trt or even higher doses, just train hard the same as natural if you want to maximize muscle.

put this into perspective, if the pro bodybuilders who see who are 250+ lb lean stopped going to the gym nothing would change for them as long as they stay on their grams of anabolics, GH, insulin, seo's, and diet. they dont actually need to be going to the gym. people dont understand this that pro bodybuilding has nothing to do with the gym, its all drugs and site enhancement.

 

[madman]

for someone on trt or even higher doses, just train hard the same as natural if you want to maximize muscle.

put this into perspective, if the pro bodybuilders who see who are 250+ lb lean stopped going to the gym nothing would change for them as long as they stay on their grams of anabolics, GH, insulin, seo's, and diet. they dont actually need to be going to the gym. people dont understand this that pro bodybuilding has nothing to do with the gym, its all drugs and site enhancement.

Aside from all the drugs used.....basically chemical warfare at its finest

One not only needs great genetics.....but without diet/training excess use of hormones are not doing S**T

 

[Airborne Warrior]

put this into perspective, if the pro bodybuilders who see who are 250+ lb lean stopped going to the gym nothing would change for them as long as they stay on their grams of anabolics, GH, insulin, seo's, and diet. they dont actually need to be going to the gym. people dont understand this that pro bodybuilding has nothing to do with the gym, its all drugs and site enhancement.

Are you for real?

 

[maxadvance]

lol that guy is full of shit

 

[at15]

Are you for real?

yes 100% serious. if every mr olympia competitor did not go to the gym once this year and stayed on their other regimens no one would even be able to tell a difference come stage time.

even for low doses of testosterone we have medical studies showing that training in addition to the testosteore only adds a small amount of muscle its mainly the testosterone dosage. so as you can imagine once your using grams of anabolics, gh, insulin, seo. training means absolutely fuvk all at that point.

and it goes without saying that genetics are #1, you can take 5 grams of anabolics, gh, insulin and look like you have never set foot in a gym.

 

[Airborne Warrior]

AAS promotes a higher state of protein synthesis but in order to take advantage of this you have to apply resistance to a muscle in order to obtain hypertrophy.

Can you show me one study or article where any bodybuilder in the world can cease training for 12 months and not lose size?

 

[fifty]

Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but don't nobody wanna lift no heavy ass weight

 

[bkb33]

Thanks for all the help, guys! This is great info and discussion.

I assume you're going to be on quite a hefty dose with such high SHBG. You definitely should see a change but don't expect miracles on such low doses. It also depends on how your body responds to excess T. Some can get quite big on 250mg per week whilst others only see marginal gains on that dose.

Yep, I'll be on 200mg per week. From what I've gathered, that is a pretty substantial dose. TRT typically goes as high as 300, correct? Anything beyond that seems to me like AAS, but I could be wrong.

In order for oner to truly see significant gains in muscle/strength steroid doses of testosterone (300-600 mg/week) would be needed and even than gains would be much better when using doses close to the higher end 500-600 mg/week…

The men walking around with a significant amount of muscle mass that are big and ripped are either blasting/cruising high doses of testosterone/AAS or cycling steroids.

I totally understand that the higher the dose, the more gains (and the more likely you’ll look like a monster), but I’m not sure I agree entirely. I’ve seen some pretty hulked out specimens (think Dr. Nichols) on TRT doses.

My bench went from pressing maybe a rep or 2 at 185 2 years ago to being able to do 5 reps of 275 today. Doing what i described above, and all at a max dose of 200mg in 2 pins per week. At 55 years old.

Thanks for the program notes. This is really cool and encouraging to hear! My max is currently around 5x185, so I’d be psyched to one day hit 5x275 like you are.

I gained 10-15 lbs on 160mg/wk (6 month period).

Damn, that’s quite a lot. Really impressive. What’d you do program/nutrition-wise?

put this into perspective, if the pro bodybuilders who see who are 250+ lb lean stopped going to the gym nothing would change for them as long as they stay on their grams of anabolics, GH, insulin, seo's, and diet. they dont actually need to be going to the gym. people dont understand this that pro bodybuilding has nothing to do with the gym, its all drugs and site enhancement.

They would still be way bigger than the average guy, but surely things would change. Their training still matters. The drugs just give them the ability to recover faster, from what I understand.

AAS promotes a higher state of protein synthesis but in order to take advantage of this you have to apply resistance to a muscle in order to obtain hypertrophy.

^ Exactly what I’m saying. You can’t be a pro bodybuilder without lifting.

 

[madman]

Thanks for all the help, guys! This is great info and discussion.



Yep, I'll be on 200mg per week. From what I've gathered, that is a pretty substantial dose. TRT typically goes as high as 300, correct? Anything beyond that seems to me like AAS, but I could be wrong.



I totally understand that the higher the dose, the more gains (and the more likely you’ll look like a monster), but I’m not sure I agree entirely. I’ve seen some pretty hulked out specimens (think Dr. Nichols) on TRT doses.



Thanks for the program notes. This is really cool and encouraging to hear! My max is currently around 5x185, so I’d be psyched to one day hit 5x275 like you are.



Damn, that’s quite a lot. Really impressive. What’d you do program/nutrition-wise?



They would still be way bigger than the average guy, but surely things would change. Their training still matters. The drugs just give them the ability to recover faster, from what I understand.



^ Exactly what I’m saying. You can’t be a pro bodybuilder without lifting.

Hulked out specimens.....not going to happen using trt doses and him you speak of is far from it!

Many men on trt are using 100-150 mg/week (common).....sure some may be slightly higher as there are individuals that may need 200 mg/week (higher SHBG men).....than there are men who may have desensitization of the AR (older men or men who have used/abused testosterone/AAS) where higher trt doses are needed in order to achieve a positive outcome.

Do understand that for a large percentage of men on trt that 200 mg/week would be to high of a dose and would have their TT/FT levels too high!

 

[Ronnny]

put this into perspective, if the pro bodybuilders who see who are 250+ lb lean stopped going to the gym nothing would change for them as long as they stay on their grams of anabolics, GH, insulin, seo's, and diet. they dont actually need to be going to the gym. people dont understand this that pro bodybuilding has nothing to do with the gym, its all drugs and site enhancement.

That's not true. Body builder train hard, eat right and take performance drugs also. One cannot just stop training after building the desired body.

 

[AndyP]

Bkb, I would highly recommend going back to the old school basics. Google Kethnaab starting strength modification and milk it for as long as you can. If you can get your bench up to 1xbw, squat to 1.5x bw and deadlift to 2xbw then you can branch out.

I ran this solidly for just over a year, ate like a horse but got massively strong. The only reason for stopping was that with squatting 3x per week well north of 400lbs I was finding recovery (and walking) too difficult. In the end I swapped over to DC training.

To be fair, although strong as a truck I never seemed to look any better. I had the strength but looked like a fat power lifter what ever I tried. Since starting on trt, with no changes to diet or program I’m now changing shape rapidly and losing fat. As an example, my arms suddenly grew by well over an inch in the first 2 months or so. Adding the testosterone just seemed to flip a switch so my body can finally catch up to where it should be.

 

[bkb33]

Bkb, I would highly recommend going back to the old school basics. Google Kethnaab starting strength modification and milk it for as long as you can. If you can get your bench up to 1xbw, squat to 1.5x bw and deadlift to 2xbw then you can branch out.

Love this advice -- I'll look into it. I'm not seeing anything for "Kethnaab," though. Would it be under a different name?

 

[AndyP]

Kethnaab was a forum guy who simply took Mark Ripptoes “starting strength” program template and substituted Pendlay or Barbell Rows in place of cleans. The idea being that as a dynamic move the cleans are a challenge without proper coaching. Rows are relatively easy by comparison and therefore safer.

If you can’t find anything about Kethnaab then just google “starting strength”

 

[Starplex]

Another fantastic program is Growth Stimulus Training. Do a search on Amazon. I've been using this program with various modifications for 3 years now. Fantastic results. And for me I was in your same shoes before TRT, even weighing my food, with little benefit. With TRT all my lifts increased and muscle mass improved even when letting the diet slip a little bit.

 

[bkb33]

Another fantastic program is Growth Stimulus Training. Do a search on Amazon. I've been using this program with various modifications for 3 years now. Fantastic results. And for me I was in your same shoes before TRT, even weighing my food, with little benefit. With TRT all my lifts increased and muscle mass improved even when letting the diet slip a little bit.

Thanks for weighing in. I downloaded the starter guide and plan to start on this program tomorrow. It coincides perfectly with the start of my T protocol, and the information looks great. Thanks! So, from your perspective, the book is definitely worth the buy?