Anyone doing better off trt long term?

[sh1973]

I’d personally be extremely weary of putting any hormones 2 inches from my prostate. There’s absolutely no proof anywhere that states elevated DHT levels are safe. I’ve seen guys post labs 4-5 times the max dht lab value and that cannot be good. The shoulders gave me higher numbers with androgel by 200-300ng as compared to the rib cage and abdomen. The shoulders are muscular and absorb very well.

 

[Gman86]

My bad, added the link. I asked Dr. Saya and he said the rib cage or shoulders are fine. I decided against other areas for fear of transferring it to my GF. I want to keep the application sites under clothing so that there is no direct skin contact with her or furniture. I may try other areas this winter when I wear clothing that covers it.

My DHT sat at 240ng/dL(30-80) with just one click to the scrotum. Personally I'm happy with that number, and while the consensus is that elevated DHT is safe in males without prostate issues, we're still pretty far from that being an absolute certainty IMO. I will consider increasing the dose to the scrotum in the future, but I want to play around with trying to keep my hormones closer to normal limits.

Ya I have the exact same mind set as you. Everything’s about balance, and I want to play it safe as well. I want elevated DHT for its benefits, but don’t know if I feel comfortable applying all the cream to the scrotum and sky rocketing DHT. I’m pretty vain, and am also concerned about hair thinning with the extremely high DHT levels lol. You haven’t noticed any hair issues with your DHT being over double the range so far have you? Can’t believe your DHT is so high on one click. I can’t even imagine how high DHT gets in individuals applying all clicks to the scrotum.

 

[StepbyStep]

No hair issues yet at 28yrs old, hair is as thick as ever with no shedding. Since starting the cream, my beard has been filling out a litter better, and back/arm hair has increased a little too.

IIRC, Dr. Saya said some guys applying 2-3 clicks to the scrotum were getting DHT levels of 400-500ng/dL. It would be super convenient to apply everything to my scrotum, and it would be nice to get the max absorption possible from the cream, but man it just seems naive to think that there will be no longer term consequences of maintaining levels that high.

 

[StepbyStep]

I’d personally be extremely weary of putting any hormones 2 inches from my prostate. There’s absolutely no proof anywhere that states elevated DHT levels are safe. I’ve seen guys post labs 4-5 times the max dht lab value and that cannot be good. The shoulders gave me higher numbers with androgel by 200-300ng as compared to the rib cage and abdomen. The shoulders are muscular and absorb very well.

Good point man, I've never thought about the close proximity. So I can't help but wonder, is PSA the only thing that we need to do when monitor out prostate health if there are no physical symptoms?

Thanks for the report of shoulders giving you higher numbers, hopefully I'll get these labs done soon and I can comment on shoulders vs ribcage as well.

 

[Gman86]

No hair issues yet at 28yrs old, hair is as thick as ever with no shedding. Since starting the cream, my beard has been filling out a litter better, and back/arm hair has increased a little too.

IIRC, Dr. Saya said some guys applying 2-3 clicks to the scrotum were getting DHT levels of 400-500ng/dL. It would be super convenient to apply everything to my scrotum, and it would be nice to get the max absorption possible from the cream, but man it just seems naive to think that there will be no longer term consequences of maintaining levels that high.

That’s awesome to hear. Can’t wait to see what your labs currently look like. I’ll be getting labs done this week as well, while doing 3 clicks in am on back of knees, and 3 clicks in pm on inner forearms and inner bicep area. Will post once they come in. Using discounted labs to just get a quick snapshot of my total and free T. I get the results next day, so I should have them at the end of the week.

And I completely agree. I’m not saying there’s dangers with having supraphysiological DHT levels, I’m just saying that we don’t 100% know yet if there is, and I also feel more comfortable raising DHT to slightly higher levels than seen in natural men, vs extremely higher levels seen in natural men. It is a nice aspect of the cream though, to be able to control DHT and libido, just by applying it to a specific part of the body. It’s nice because you don’t have to go around your doctor’s orders and change the dose at all, like you normally would have to with injections.

 

[sh1973]

Yeah just because you don’t have prostate issues now don’t Mean you don’t have a predisposition for having them later in life. Androgens And estrogen fuel cancer and estrogen more than testosterone. DHT isn’t bad when kept within physiological ranges but with it or anything else, boosting levels to 4-5 times the max can’t be good. I lost nearly all my hair on top within a year and a half of using topical testosterone and my DHT levels were a tad above the top of the range at the time. Baldness runs in my family but I had a full head of hair until I started androgel at 36y/o. By 38y/o I just started shaving my head. At the time I thought feeling better was better than worrying about having hair but maybe that was a poor choice on my part. There’s a member on one of the other forums that was trying scrotal application with high doses and ended up with a PSA of nearly 7 and could barely pee from his prostate being swollen. You guys have to do whatever you think is right for you but there’s no way in hell I’m putting anything within 2 inches of my prostate and sure as hell not listening to some fool on YouTube regarding my healthcare. I’m sure you know who I’m referring to and that’s probably enough said about that but these guys views are fucking wacko and that’s putting it lightly!

 

[StepbyStep]

Got a link to that thread sh1973?

 

[sh1973]

Wasn’t a thread it was someone I was on private message with.

 

[Gman86]

Yeah just because you don’t have prostate issues now don’t Mean you don’t have a predisposition for having them later in life. Androgens And estrogen fuel cancer and estrogen more than testosterone. DHT isn’t bad when kept within physiological ranges but with it or anything else, boosting levels to 4-5 times the max can’t be good. I lost nearly all my hair on top within a year and a half of using topical testosterone and my DHT levels were a tad above the top of the range at the time. Baldness runs in my family but I had a full head of hair until I started androgel at 36y/o. By 38y/o I just started shaving my head. At the time I thought feeling better was better than worrying about having hair but maybe that was a poor choice on my part. There’s a member on one of the other forums that was trying scrotal application with high doses and ended up with a PSA of nearly 7 and could barely pee from his prostate being swollen. You guys have to do whatever you think is right for you but there’s no way in hell I’m putting anything within 2 inches of my prostate and sure as hell not listening to some fool on YouTube regarding my healthcare. I’m sure you know who I’m referring to and that’s probably enough said about that but these guys views are fucking wacko and that’s putting it lightly!

Just curious, did your hair come back at all once you stopped the gel?

Suprised the gel had such an effect on your hair, considering you weren’t even applying it to the scrotum. I’ve had DHT over 100 while on injections, and never had any issues. Everyone’s obviously different. Were you on TRT before the gel, or was that your first experience with TRT and elevated levels?

 

[sh1973]

Unfortunately my hair never did come back I probably have 15 to 20% of what I had prior to starting gel on the top of my head. My DHT is normally been close to the top while on injections it has went over a couple times whenever I tried higher doses. My dad started losing his hair in his early 20s so I guess that makes me genetically predisposed for being bald but all I can tell you is within a year and a half of Androgel g I was pretty much bald on top. It did seem to slow some on the injections but it certainly never grew back.

 

[Gman86]

Unfortunately my hair never did come back I probably have 15 to 20% of what I had prior to starting gel on the top of my head. My DHT is normally been close to the top while on injections it has went over a couple times whenever I tried higher doses. My dad started losing his hair in his early 20s so I guess that makes me genetically predisposed for being bald but all I can tell you is within a year and a half of Androgel g I was pretty much bald on top. It did seem to slow some on the injections but it certainly never grew back. View attachment 8366

Man you’re so lucky! U have a great shaped head! Lol. If I had a good shaped head like that I’d shave my head tonight!

How old were you when you started losing it?

 

[sh1973]

Honestly if I could grow hair back I don’t know that I would want to do it this point it’s so much easier it’s cooler in the summer time it saves me a shitload of money not having to get haircuts LOL

 

[sh1973]

Not sure if there’s ever any way of knowing for sure but I can pretty much certainly tell you the gel made the process move at an exponential rate if nothing else

 

[Gman86]

Honestly if I could grow hair back I don’t know that I would want to do it this point it’s so much easier it’s cooler in the summer time it saves me a shitload of money not having to get haircuts LOL

Nah man, enjoy it. I wish I had the balls to just shave it. I cut my own hair. So even tho I save money, it’s still a pain in the balls to cut it all the time. I’m super jealous of any guy that can rock a bald head

So how old were u when your hair started to go on the gel? I only ask because I heard that if you still have all your hair by 30, you have a better chance of being resilient to hair issues. I just turned 33, and haven’t had any issues, so I’m hoping that holds true.

 

[sh1973]

Started gel at 36 and was pretty much bald mid year of 37. Had a full head of hair prior to that. I have to admit it sort of freaked me the hell out in the beginning and it took a lot of courage to start clipping it really close. After a while I just finally said screw it and started using a razor and honestly I think it’s all mental because I think I had a harder time getting used to it then people around me. There’s just so many things that are nice about it such as not having to worry about the wind, it feels so cool when you lay your head down on the pillowcase at night and the cool air in the fall and winter feels fantastic. I’m normally hot by nature so I’m all for that. I was a diesel mechanic for 23 years prior to getting injured and it also made it nice not to have to was oil out of my hair lol.

 

[Systemlord]

I was on TRT for two and a half years and after 6-8 months things went downhill. I've been off TRT for 5 months and I do feel better off TRT at 97-119 ng/dL than I did as a whole on TRT, but I was iron, vitamin C, potassium and vitamin D deficient pretty much the entire time. I remember my first symptoms was excessively curly hair, nasty taste in mouth, aching teeth and swelling gums-> lack vitamin C.

The iron deficiency followed and the others as well and now that I mostly have vitamin deficiencies corrected, I can only imagine what awaits me on TRT. Now I'm prepared to restart TRT and if I encounter any of the symptoms I had last time, I will know if either of the vitamins are dipping low because I'm aware of what symptoms are caused by what deficiency.

 

[sh1973]

I think with injections and the nearly static 24/7 levels, that the body just adapts and sorta flatlines as far as energy, libido and well-being. I’m convinced after over 8 years on injections that topical formulations are superior. Perhaps in the future someone can create an injectable ester with a 5-8 hour half life than can be injected daily and provide a true daily variation. I’ve considered also trying natesto which sounds pretty intriguing.

 

[Charliebizz]

I was on TRT for two and a half years and after 6-8 months things went downhill. I've been off TRT for 5 months and I do feel better off TRT at 97-119 ng/dL than I did as a whole on TRT, but I was iron, vitamin C, potassium and vitamin D deficient pretty much the entire time. I remember my first symptoms was excessively curly hair, nasty taste in mouth, aching teeth and swelling gums-> lack vitamin C.

The iron deficiency followed and the others as well and now that I mostly have vitamin deficiencies corrected, I can only imagine what awaits me on TRT. Now I'm prepared to restart TRT and if I encounter any of the symptoms I had last time, I will know if either of the vitamins are dipping low because I'm aware of what symptoms are caused by what deficiency.

What caused those deficiencies?

 

[Systemlord]

What caused those deficiencies?

I believe it was a lack of vitamin C in my diet that tipped over the first domino, I think second I was pushing TT and FT beyond what I had naturally requiring more of what I had little of in the first place. I started having problems when I chose protocols that kept my levels more stable, but was fine when levels were swinging which spared the vitamins.

I didn't notice much benefits on once and twice weekly other than good energy and mood benefits even with estrogen at 70, no muscle and erections. When I started injecting my doses EOD, things started to move fast and noticed muscle improvements in only 2-3 weeks.

My muscles got hard fast, I remember I was so sore all the time and I loved the feeling.

 

[sh1973]

System lord did you ever have libido problems on injections? This has by far been my biggest hurdle.