American men are hungry for injectable T: A legion of new health clinics are serving it up

Buy Lab Tests Online
madman

madman

Super Moderator
As I have always stated many of those dime a dozen run of the mill T-clinics are overmedicating men on T from the get-go!

Dishing out those high doses let alone treating some men who do not truly need to be on T!

All those bumass so called HRT/men's health forums let alone so called gurus stinking up the net are also to blame for that more T is better mentality!

Herd f**king mentality, complete sheep show.....I mean S**T SHOW!





1752359015523.webp

​

 
Defy Medical TRT clinic doctor
Jerajera said:
Plenty of young men with Test levels on the lower end of the distribution. Probably the best time to get treated so they can build a life based on high T levels instead of going through life as cucks and then trying to salvage that disaster in the middle of an epic midlife crisis.
Click to expand...

True but the whole point here is there are numerous men who are just looking for that magical boost and even then those young men who'are truly hypogonadal are being overmedicated!
 
Jerajera said:
Plenty of young men with Test levels on the lower end of the distribution. Probably the best time to get treated so they can build a life based on high T levels instead of going through life as cucks and then trying to salvage that disaster in the middle of an epic midlife crisis.
Click to expand...

Need to tread lightly on this needing a high FT level!

Big difference between a natty hitting a healthy FT let alone a FT that falls in the 90-95th percentile vs one using exogenous T.

These natty men that are hitting a healthy let alone high FT (95th percentile) is a daily short-lived f**king peak to boot!

Many of the men on TTh are are running around with a high let alone absurdly high trough FT 24 hrs post-injection (dailies), 2 days (48 hrs post-injection EOD protocol), 3.5 days (84 hrs post-injection twice-weekly protocol) let alone many injecting once weekly are hitting a high-end/high trough 7 days post-injection far cry from a natty living with that daily short-lived healthy/high peak FT.

Too many are amped up on T 24/7 steady state running trough FT levels beyond/well-beyong their NATTY GENETIC SET-POINT!

FT levels were never meant to be elevated 24/7 let alone SKY F**KING HIGH!

Clueless left scratching their noggins wondering why they continue to struggle!

More T is where it's at though eh.....LMFAO!




madman

Thread 'Age-stratified reference ranges for directly measured (ED LC-MS/MS) serum free testosterone in healthy men'

Just to be clear up any confusion this is Fiers camps data for mFT reference ranges not the harmonized reference range being worked on by the CDC.


*Serum samples were analyzed from healthy men participating in the SIBLOS/SIBEX and EMAS studies, both population-based cohort studies

* mFT levels were measured in 867 men using ED LC-MS/MS as previously reported (1). Subsequently, 95% reference ranges were determined using the non-parametric method


Reference: 1. Fiers T, Wu F, Moghetti P, Vanderschueren D, Lapauw B, Kaufman JM. Reassessing Free-Testosterone...


*Serum samples were analyzed from healthy men participating in the SIBLOS/SIBEX and EMAS studies, both population-based cohort studies

* mFT levels were measured in 867 men using ED LC-MS/MS as previously reported (1). Subsequently, 95% reference ranges were determined using the non-parametric method


Reference: 1. Fiers T, Wu F, Moghetti P, Vanderschueren D, Lapauw B, Kaufman JM. Reassessing Free-Testosterone Calculation by Liquid Chromatography–Tandem Mass Spectrometry Direct Equilibrium Dialysis. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2018;103(6). doi:10.1210/jc.2017-02360




We present 95% mFT age-stratified reference ranges. These reference ranges show an expected, decreasing trend of mFT with aging. Lower limits and median mFT decrease at a remarkably stable rate of, on average, 12% per decade up into the 6th decade of life. However, in the upper limit, a marked decrease of 25% occurs after 39 years, followed by smaller decreases of 6% per decade in older age categories.



Age category (years)
Median mFT (ng/dl)
95% mFT reference range (ng/dl)

18-29 (n=140)
30-39 (n=252)
12.0
9.8
6.7-25.3
4.9-18.5

40-49 (n=207)
8.1
4.3.14.2

50-59 (n=146)
7.1
3.8-12.8

60-69 (n=126)
6.4
3.4-11.7

70-79 (n=125)
5.6
2.7-8.7


Conclusion

We have determined mFT reference ranges in healthy men aged 25 to 69. These reference ranges are a first step to improving the framework for further development and integration of free testosterone measurements and calculations in clinical practice.
 
madman said:
True but the whole point here is there are numerous men who are just looking for that magical boost and even then those young men who'are truly hypogonadal are being overmedicated!
Click to expand...

I don't disagree there's such a thing as overmedicated. I've just heard too many times the narrative that if you're a younger man and you have low T it has to be because of lifestyle issues that you can almost always address.

I think people don't understand how distributions work. Average means half the population is below that number. Personally I wouldn't want to go through life with an IQ below 100, but hey...maybe that's just me.

So if your Test levels are for example bottom 25% for a 20yo, I absolutely believe you would benefit from careful supplementation, and that's by definition 25% of the 20yo men population, so we're talking a lot of people.

And younger is the best time to correct those deficiencies. Also the dramatized notion that Test significantly stunts growth, etc...needs to stop. Test has incredible benefits when going through puberty, including in mental/psychological/emotional development, and going through puberty with low T levels has profound negative effects on someone's life later on.

The gatekeeping is from idiots who can't model this stuff with any nuance.
 
I'm 69 and started TRT just last year, largely because I would fatigue easily when exercising or doing physical work; it has helped me that way.

As a younger person I would have my T tested occasionally, and it was on the lower side if not actually considered low. I prefer to be humble, but for purposes of this argument I can honestly state that I've had a life of great accomplishment both physically, academically and in the business world. The only magic that I had or needed was in the power of my mind to create the realities that I envisioned. The notion that a man with lower T must go through life as a "cuck" is not only offensive, but absurd beyond description.

Unless we have VERY low levels of T, which is likely only a smaller percentage of men, it must be realized that whatever makes us great is not found in a syringe. Discipline and focus are more often the factors that are in short supply. Unfortunately, there will always be those who yearn for an easy way out, and there will always be those who seek to profit from it. Selling the perceived benefits of T is not hard; the easiest person to sell is the one who desperately wants to believe what you're saying.

A younger man should exploit every alternative to whatever problem he may have before resorting to alteration of his body chemistry. More often than not, the answer will be found in his mental makeup, not the physical . . .
 
Melody68 said:
I'm 69 and started TRT just last year, largely because I would fatigue easily when exercising or doing physical work; it has helped me that way.

As a younger person I would have my T tested occasionally, and it was on the lower side if not actually considered low. I prefer to be humble, but for purposes of this argument I can honestly state that I've had a life of great accomplishment both physically, academically and in the business world. The only magic that I had or needed was in the power of my mind to create the realities that I envisioned. The notion that a man with lower T must go through life as a "cuck" is not only offensive, but absurd beyond description.

Unless we have VERY low levels of T, which is likely only a smaller percentage of men, it must be realized that whatever makes us great is not found in a syringe. Discipline and focus are more often the factors that are in short supply. Unfortunately, there will always be those who yearn for an easy way out, and there will always be those who seek to profit from it. Selling the perceived benefits of T is not hard; the easiest person to sell is the one who desperately wants to believe what you're saying.

A younger man should exploit every alternative to whatever problem he may have before resorting to alteration of his body chemistry. More often than not, the answer will be found in his mental makeup, not the physical . . .
Click to expand...

I agree to an extent, but the mental often affects the physical and vice versa. Lots of guys suffer too long when the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze (no pun intended). But you definitely make a good point that it shouldn’t be considered a magical cure for all of life’s issues. Often times people view it that way and it prevents them from addressing other issues or correcting things that need to be fixed. TRT is a valuable tool for many people, but it should be viewed as a single tool for a specific set of problems (though the set of problems it can assist with is pretty broad).


And I do agree that too many people take the “more is better” approach. Sometimes less is more, but it’s also true that sometimes less is less. I run what @madman would call “absurdly high” levels, and by that I mean at or slightly above the top of the range at my trough. I feel and look better in my mid 40’s than I have at any other point of my life. Sure I could probably get by just fine running a lower dose, but to hear him tell it I’m being reckless and opening myself up to tons of issues. I’m right at the five year mark and my bloodwork looks as good as ever. So for me it works incredibly well and I’m sure that’s the case for lots of other men. We aren’t being reckless or irresponsible. Or at least not the way I see it. If you feel great and are healthy (much healthier than I would be with levels on the lower end of the spectrum) then I don’t see what the problem is. And yes, again, I agree to an extent about the points y’all make, but as jera pointed out it’s important to be nuanced. People who scream in absolutes are usually missing a lot of key pieces.
 
Phil Goodman said:
Sometimes less is more, but it’s also true that sometimes less is less. I run what @madman would call “absurdly high” levels, and by that I mean at or slightly above the top of the range at my trough.
Click to expand...
I will take him seriously on this when he posts his labs and they are not also found to be "absurdly high". I am reminded of the closeted gay congressman that publicly rails against homosexuality until they are caught in a men's room sex act.
 
Something I've observed that may be driving some of the "more is better" mentality is that many people (mostly men) do their gym protocols in a manner that essentially comes down to "try harder", which is what the 1-2 sets to failure approach boils down to. This will work to some degree for the first 2-3 years of training, but IME experience leads to burnout, overtraining, injuries and a permanent plateau in fairly short order. I trained that way for a long time before I ran across approaches based on gradually increasing base work capacity and letting that lead to gains in muscle and strength. Training with the "try harder" approach (assuming diet and recovery are sound) basically leaves hormones as the only variable left to change, and for people who know of no other approach I can understand why they would assume they need to run higher than natural levels.

A closely related point is that gym-bro mentality has become very focused on achieving extreme strength on a few key lifts (often low-benefit lifts like the bench press) rather than overall athleticism, which again creates an "I need something more" mentality.

I'm not judging anyone who goes down either of these paths, but I do think instead of bashing the road people take it would be more constructive to help people understand how to get more out of whatever hormones levels they have before they become hormone-constrained.
 
Phil Goodman said:
I agree to an extent, but the mental often affects the physical and vice versa. Lots of guys suffer too long when the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze (no pun intended). But you definitely make a good point that it shouldn’t be considered a magical cure for all of life’s issues. Often times people view it that way and it prevents them from addressing other issues or correcting things that need to be fixed. TRT is a valuable tool for many people, but it should be viewed as a single tool for a specific set of problems (though the set of problems it can assist with is pretty broad).


And I do agree that too many people take the “more is better” approach. Sometimes less is more, but it’s also true that sometimes less is less. I run what @madman would call “absurdly high” levels, and by that I mean at or slightly above the top of the range at my trough. I feel and look better in my mid 40’s than I have at any other point of my life. Sure I could probably get by just fine running a lower dose, but to hear him tell it I’m being reckless and opening myself up to tons of issues. I’m right at the five year mark and my bloodwork looks as good as ever. So for me it works incredibly well and I’m sure that’s the case for lots of other men. We aren’t being reckless or irresponsible. Or at least not the way I see it. If you feel great and are healthy (much healthier than I would be with levels on the lower end of the spectrum) then I don’t see what the problem is. And yes, again, I agree to an extent about the points y’all make, but as jera pointed out it’s important to be nuanced. People who scream in absolutes are usually missing a lot of key pieces.
Click to expand...

I run what @madman would call “absurdly high” levels, and by that I mean at or slightly above the top of the range at my trough. I feel and look better in my mid 40’s than I have at any other point of my life. Sure I could probably get by just fine running a lower dose, but to hear him tell it I’m being reckless and opening myself up to tons of issues.


Being reckless, tons of issues.....never f**king stated such!

Give ur head a shake!

Putting words in peoples mouths now are we?

Get ur S**T STR8 before calling someone out!

You inject daily no?

Your still hitting a trough beyond the 95th percentile!

FT <5 ng/dL would be considerd low.

FT 5-9 ng/dL would be considered the grey zone where some men may experience symptoms of low-T.

FT 10-15 ng/dL would be healthy.

FT 20-25 ng/dL would be high-end/high.

Your hitting a trough FT 30/30+!

Plain and simple your trough FT is very high so what is it bad did I tell you to change your protocol?

Again did I ever state it was f**king RECKLESS or you are going to run into TONS of issues?

Pick your f**king words WISELY next time round or keep your mouth shut!

Typical CLOWN putting words in peoples mouths!

Better yet did I not put it in perspective numerous times on the forum that there is a big difference between one running a high-end/high trough FT injecting daily vs twice-weekly let alone once weekly!

Yet you persist to babble on here!

Lets put the f**king icing on the cake when you and anyone who has been on the forum long enough should know where I stand when it comes to ones protocol.

Yes I am always kicking sense here putting s**t in perspective especially when it comes to FT but as I have always stated numerous times in my posts over the years.

Just to be clear here I see no issue if one chooses to run a high-end/high trough FT within reason especially if blood markers are healthy, minus any sides and they feel great overall.

Yes symptom relief is what truly matters but we need to tread lightly when it comes to the cop out for some claiming this is where I feel best!

Let me be clear here if you want to play f**king games keep my name out your mouth on here and any of those other bumass forums you clearly waste your time on.

Do not tempt me to come over there and air things out for you on any of those other kiddie sites you dwell on!




madman

Post in thread 'Switching From Oral Test to Test Cypionate'

Ethan@50 said:
madman,
May I ask you what total T and free T trough levels should I be aiming for to tell my dose is dialed in? Thank you!
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

Although it is important to know where your trough FT level sits symptom relief is what truly matters.

What level you need to hit would be through trial and error.

Every individual is different as some men will feel good running a mid-range trough whereas others may need a high-end trough to reap the...
  • Like
 
madman said:
I run what @madman would call “absurdly high” levels, and by that I mean at or slightly above the top of the range at my trough. I feel and look better in my mid 40’s than I have at any other point of my life. Sure I could probably get by just fine running a lower dose, but to hear him tell it I’m being reckless and opening myself up to tons of issues.


Being reckless, tons of issues.....never f**king stated such!

Give ur head a shake!

Putting words in peoples mouths now are we?

Get ur S**T STR8 before calling someone out!

You inject daily no?

Your still hitting a trough beyond the 95th percentile!

FT <5 ng/dL would be considerd low.

FT 5-9 ng/dL would be considered the grey zone where some men may experience symptoms of low-T.

FT 10-15 ng/dL would be healthy.

FT 20-25 ng/dL would be high-end/high.

Your hitting a trough FT 30/30+!

Plain and simple your trough FT is very high so what is it bad did I tell you to change your protocol?

Again did I ever state it was f**king RECKLESS or you are going to run into TONS of issues?

Pick your f**king words WISELY next time round or keep your mouth shut!

Typical CLOWN putting words in peoples mouths!

Better yet did I not put it in perspective numerous times on the forum that there is a big difference between one running a high-end/high trough FT injecting daily vs twice-weekly let alone once weekly!

Yet you persist to babble on here!

Lets put the f**king icing on the cake when you and anyone who has been on the forum long enough should know where I stand when it comes to ones protocol.

Yes I am always kicking sense here putting s**t in perspective especially when it comes to FT but as I have always stated numerous times in my posts over the years.

Just to be clear here I see no issue if one chooses to run a high-end/high trough FT within reason especially if blood markers are healthy, minus any sides and they feel great overall.

Yes symptom relief is what truly matters but we need to tread lightly when it comes to the cop out for some claiming this is where I feel best!

Let me be clear here if you want to play f**king games keep my name out your mouth on here and any of those other bumass forums you clearly waste your time on.

Do not tempt me to come over there and air things out for you on any of those other sites you dwell on!




madman

Post in thread 'Switching From Oral Test to Test Cypionate'

Ethan@50 said:
madman,
May I ask you what total T and free T trough levels should I be aiming for to tell my dose is dialed in? Thank you!
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

Although it is important to know where your trough FT level sits symptom relief is what truly matters.

What level you need to hit would be through trial and error.

Every individual is different as some men will feel good running a mid-range trough whereas others may need a high-end trough to reap the...
  • Like
Click to expand...
Damn bro, sorry if I offended you so bad. We’ve all seen you in TONS of threads telling users they don’t need to run as you call it “absurdly high” levels and repeatedly tell them they’ll likely introduce themselves to lots of issues. Not sure why you act like we can’t remember your posts when you make them almost daily. And yes, in your defense you usually state that you are fine with people running higher levels…. And that statement is usually buried in paragraph 5 after you spent the first 4 talking about how unnatural it is, and ranting about how so many people are over-medicated if they’re hitting the top end of the range at their trough. Like I said, I agree with your point to an extent because there are lots of people who suffer needlessly due to running too high of a dose. I just think you go too far in the other direction. I mean… where do you draw the line. Anyone taking a dose high enough to find symptom relief is probably hitting a level above the top of the range(and certainly what you would call a supra-physiological level at some point after dosing, even if they inject daily). Would that be absurdly high? I mean, it’s beyond what a normal male would reach? So again, you and I agree on some things, we just draw the line at different places.


So yeah, you never specifically told me that I was being reckless so didn’t mean to come off that way. But we have seen you state that same sentiment repeatedly to others when talking about people who are near the higher end of the range at trough(and ftr I inject 3 times/week). Again, didn’t mean to make you so mad. You should really try to calm down a little bit. That type of rage and stress is way worse for you than running levels near the top of the range.
 
Phil Goodman said:
Damn bro, sorry if I offended you so bad. We’ve all seen you in TONS of threads telling users they don’t need to run as you call it “absurdly high” levels and repeatedly tell them they’ll likely introduce themselves to lots of issues. Not sure why you act like we can’t remember your posts when you make them almost daily. And yes, in your defense you usually state that you are fine with people running higher levels…. And that statement is usually buried in paragraph 5 after you spent the first 4 talking about how unnatural it is, and ranting about how so many people are over-medicated if they’re hitting the top end of the range at their trough. Like I said, I agree with your point to an extent because there are lots of people who suffer needlessly due to running too high of a dose. I just think you go too far in the other direction. I mean… where do you draw the line. Anyone taking a dose high enough to find symptom relief is probably hitting a level above the top of the range(and certainly what you would call a supra-physiological level at some point after dosing, even if they inject daily). Would that be absurdly high? I mean, it’s beyond what a normal male would reach? So again, you and I agree on some things, we just draw the line at different places.


So yeah, you never specifically told me that I was being reckless so didn’t mean to come off that way. But we have seen you state that same sentiment repeatedly to others when talking about people who are near the higher end of the range at trough(and ftr I inject 3 times/week). Again, didn’t mean to make you so mad. You should really try to calm down a little bit. That type of rage and stress is way worse for you than running levels near the top of the range.
Click to expand...

Again!

Just to be clear here I see no issue if one chooses to run a high-end/high trough FT within reason especially if blood markers are healthy, minus any sides and they feel great overall.

Yes symptom relief is what truly matters but we need to tread lightly when it comes to the cop out for some claiming this is where I feel best!


Never going to tell one they need or have to lower their trough FT if blood markers are healthy, they are not experiencing any sides and they feel good overall!

You and everyone reads my posts all the time LOL than you and everyone should very well know in numerous posts I always state DO WHAT YOU FEEL IS BEST FOR YOU!

Like I said next time choose your f**king words WISELY before you call someone out!




And yes, in your defense you usually state that you are fine with people running higher levels…. And that statement is usually buried in paragraph 5 after you spent the first 4 talking about how unnatural it is, and ranting about how so many people are over-medicated if they’re hitting the top end of the range at their trough.


Really!

Again must have went over your head!

Yet did I not put it in perspective numerous times on the forum that there is a big difference between one running a high-end/high trough FT injecting daily vs twice-weekly let alone once weekly!

Yet in numerous posts I always state DO WHAT YOU FEEL IS BEST FOR YOU!

You might want to throw that in there next time round!
 
FunkOdyssey said:
I will take him seriously on this when he posts his labs and they are not also found to be "absurdly high". I am reminded of the closeted gay congressman that publicly rails against homosexuality until they are caught in a men's room sex act.
Click to expand...

Are you still hanging out with all those kids?

As always I have run a high-end trough cFTV around 21 ng/dL and this is injecting twice-weekly strictly sub-q!

Yes it tends to overf**king estimate slightly too!

You that guy repping Maximus?

That same guy that never knew what Native T was LMFAO!

Going to try biting my tongue here otherwise this is not going to turn out too well for you!




madman

Post in thread 'Maximus: Oral TRT+ (native T + enclomiphene + pregnenolone)'

FunkOdyssey said:
Wtf is "native testosterone"?
Click to expand...

Unmodified T!


www.excelmale.com

Oral native testosterone - Excel Male TRT Forum

Abstract Context: There is no licensed oral Native Testosterone (NT) because of challenges in the formulation. Licensed oral formulations of the ester, testosterone undecanoate (TU), require a meal for absorption and generate supraphysiological dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels. Objective: To...
www.excelmale.com www.excelmale.com
  • Like


madman

Post in thread 'Principles of Testosterone and hCG Injection Technique'

DJXS said:
No problem pushing cyp. oil through these 31g needles? And here I am on the fence, leaning towards going with 27g, concerned that a 29g might be problematic

Where does this protocol put your TT and FT and estradiol, with what SHBG? Do you include any ancillaries, such as HCG and AI?
Click to expand...

hCG 500IU twice weekly and never used an AI.

trough
TT 900 ng/dL
FT 30-34 ng/dL
SHBG 32 nmol/L
Estradiol 39 pg/mL
  • Like
 
madman said:
Again!

Just to be clear here I see no issue if one chooses to run a high-end/high trough FT within reason especially if blood markers are healthy, minus any sides and they feel great overall.

Yes symptom relief is what truly matters but we need to tread lightly when it comes to the cop out for some claiming this is where I feel best!


Never going to tell one they need or have to lower their trough FT if blood markers are healthy, they are not experiencing any sides and they feel good overall!

You and everyone reads my posts all the time LOL than you and everyone should very well know in numerous posts I always state DO WHAT YOU FEEL IS BEST FOR YOU!

Like I said next time choose your f**king words WISELY before you call someone out!




And yes, in your defense you usually state that you are fine with people running higher levels…. And that statement is usually buried in paragraph 5 after you spent the first 4 talking about how unnatural it is, and ranting about how so many people are over-medicated if they’re hitting the top end of the range at their trough.


Really!

Again must have went over your head!

Yet did I not put it in perspective numerous times on the forum that there is a big difference between one running a high-end/high trough FT injecting daily vs twice-weekly let alone once weekly!

Yet in numerous posts I always state DO WHAT YOU FEEL IS BEST FOR YOU!

You might want to throw that in there next time round!
Click to expand...
Translation…


“Do what you feel is best for you….

.
.
.


After I post a book report about how dumb your approach is.”




Thanks for clearing that up
 

hCG Mixing Calculator

HCG Mixing Protocol Calculator

Similar threads

madman
Why Men’s Fertility Is Declining: The Truth About Testosterone
Replies
4
Views
130
madman
madman
madman
Dynamic landscape of therapeutic options for T deficiency in reproductive-aged males and their impact on suppression of the HPG-axis
Replies
12
Views
138
DorianGray
D
Buy Lab Tests Online
Defy Medical TRT clinic

Share this page

Sponsors

bodybuilder test discounted labs
buy enclomiphene
Discounted Labs
Testosterone Doctor Near Me
Register on ExcelMale.com
Trimix HCG Offer Excelmale
BUY HCG CIALIS

Online statistics

Members online
2
Guests online
161
Total visitors
163
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Latest posts

Back
Top