All HCG is NOT the same. Your balls care.

[Saxon]

I started by TRT journey with a Florida based anti aging clinic (not Defy) and the clinic was affiliated with a pharmacy that filled the scripts. Well, I was using 250iu twice a week of the compounded pharmacy HCG and my balls got high and tight and pretty much disappeared. I talked to my Rep and he advised to up the dose to 500iu 3x a week. I did that BUT I used some of my wife's Corion brand HCG and my balls came right back. I didn't put 2&2 together and thought it was the dose so when I ran through the Corion, I reconstituted one of the ones from the Florida Pharmacy and kept at the 500iu 3x a week. Well low and behold, my balls shrunk again. I realized that the issue wasn't the dose but the crap from the anti-aging clinic is bogus or completely underdosed. It can pass a pregnancy test but it's not the same strength as the Corion. That is crappy. So, I found one more vial of Corion laying around and voila, balls are back.

I have some Alpha-Pharma HCG and some Fertigen sp? that I got from India. I will try that next. This is why I'm looking for a good place that doesn't require a script to order Corion from. Beware gentlemen of shady pharmacies.

 

[Vince]

My HCG comes from Empower and before that APS, I never had any issues with either. I use 500iu of HCG twice a week. But I'm not trying to make babies.

 

[Miguel99]

I use Alpha Pharma, and I think it works great

 

[Gman86]

I've experienced the exact same thing. Used 2 different compound pharmacy brands of HCG and both didn't work properly. Both verified my multiple blood tests. I even tried Empower HCG recently, which was my third compound pharmacy HCG that I tried, and although I'm not sure if it worked well or not, due to not verifying by blood test, once I switched to Pregnyl brand HCG I did notice my testicles enlarge within a week or two. I've actually tried Pregnyl before, and it worked extremely well in the past, again verified by blood tests. It's obviously the reason why I switched back to Pregnyl. If anyone is wondering, the only reason I had to use the compound pharmacy's HCG is because my previous doctor would only use their pharmacies, and would not write the prescription for Pregnyl.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

I've experienced the exact same thing. Used 2 different compound pharmacy brands of HCG and both didn't work properly. Both verified my multiple blood tests. I even tried Empower HCG recently, which was my third compound pharmacy HCG that I tried, and although I'm not sure if it worked well or not, due to not verifying by blood test, once I switched to Pregnyl brand HCG I did notice my testicles enlarge within a week or two. I've actually tried Pregnyl before, and it worked extremely well in the past, again verified by blood tests. It's obviously the reason why I switched back to Pregnyl. If anyone is wondering, the only reason I had to use the compound pharmacy's HCG is because my previous doctor would only use their pharmacies, and would not write the prescription for Pregnyl.

Curious, when you say Pregnyl worked extremely well in the past, verified by blood work...what blood work are you referring to?

The only blood work that can TRULY assess efficacy of any HCG product is a serum beta HCG test, which is almost never done outside of pregnancy or a case study (such as when I performed a case study on the serum concentrations of compounded HCG 150iu vs 500iu dosages).

 

[Gman86]

The blood work just verified the efficacy in raising testosterone levels and also the consistency of the product. Had blood tested twice while on 2,000iu/ week monotherapy. Total testosterone was 1185 on first test, and 1193 the second test. Those blood tests were 2.5 months apart. Then was switched to 1,000iu/ week monotherapy for the next blood test. It came back at 579. That third test was 2 months after the previous test. So Pregnyl, for me, had worked very well at raising testosterone, and was also extremely consistent. When my dose was cut in half, my total testosterone levels were pretty much cut exactly in half as well. Also, my LH and FSH were zeroed out on all three blood tests, which basically just told me that there was no endogenous testosterone being made by my body, so the total testosterone levels on all three blood tests were 100% coming from the HCG. Well the HCG stimulating my testitcles to make it's own testosterone, but you know what I mean lol.

Then I tried 2 different compounding pharmacy brands recently, and the efficacy was just poor on the exact same dosages that I was using with Pregnyl, and they were just not consistent. I can put the name of the compounding pharmacies, but just not sure if that's okay to do or not on this forum. I also can go into detail on my experiences with both of them in regards to blood work, but to save time, they both basically didn't suppress my LH and FSH like they should, didn't raise testosterone levels as well as they should of, came back with very different testosterone levels on two separate blood tests while taking the same dosage (559 vs 348 total testosterone, both tests were while on 2,000iu/ monotherapy), and didn't increase testicular size as much as Pregnyl did.

The third compounding pharmacy brand I tried was Empower Rx. I never had a blood test while on this brand, so I can't comment on it's efficacy or consistency. All I know is that it did prevent my testicles from atrophying while simultaneously taking testosterone cypionate, which obviously tells me it definitely was working to some degree. However, when I switched to Pregnyl HCG, I did notice my testicles get slightly larger within about a week and a half to two weeks. Maybe like 25% larger or slightly less. Not much larger, but enough to notice a difference in size.

I can post the blood work from all the different times I was tested while on these products if needed. I'm not trying to bash any certain brand of HCG or anything, btw. I'm simply just saying that in my experience, there seems to be the possibility that not all HCG is created equal. They could all be equal, or they could not all be equal, I'm extremely open minded to either scenario. These are just my personal experiences. I just want to put them out there so amazing doctors like Dr. Saya can use this information to add to everything they already know, and improve even further on giving their patients the best possible care that's currently available to people in need of treatment.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

The blood work just verified the efficacy in raising testosterone levels and also the consistency of the product. Had blood tested twice while on 2,000iu/ week monotherapy. Total testosterone was 1185 on first test, and 1193 the second test. Those blood tests were 2.5 months apart. Then was switched to 1,000iu/ week monotherapy for the next blood test. It came back at 579. That third test was 2 months after the previous test. So Pregnyl, for me, had worked very well at raising testosterone, and was also extremely consistent. When my dose was cut in half, my total testosterone levels were pretty much cut exactly in half as well. Also, my LH and FSH were zeroed out all all three blood tests, which basically just told me that there was no endogenous testosterone being made by my body, so the total testosterone levels on all three blood tests were 100% coming from the HCG. Well the HCG stimulating my testitcles to make it's own testosterone, but you know what I mean lol.

Then I tried 2 different compounding pharmacy brands recently, and the efficacy was just poor on the exact same dosages that I was using with Pregnyl, and they were just not consistent. I can put the name of the compounding pharmacies, but just not sure if that's okay to do or not on this forum. I also can go into detail on my experiences with both of them in regards to blood work, but to save time, they both basically didn't suppress my LH and FSH like they should, didn't raise testosterone levels as well as they should of, came back with different testosterone levels on two separate blood tests while taking the same dosage, and didn't increase testicular size as much as Pregnyl did.

The third compounding pharmacy brand I tried was Empower Rx. I never had a blood test while on this brand, so I can't comment on it's efficacy or consistency. All I know is that it did prevent my testicles from atrophying while simultaneously taking testosterone cypionate, which obviously tells me it definitely was working to some degree. However, when I switched to Pregnyl HCG, I did notice my testicles get slightly larger within about a week and a half to two weeks. Maybe like 25% larger or slightly less. Not much larger, but enough to notice a difference in size.

I can post the blood work from all the different times I was tested while on these products if needed. I'm not trying to bash any certain brand of HCG or anything, btw. I'm simply just saying that in my experience, there seems to be the possibility that not all HCG is created equal. They could all be equal, or they could not all be equal, I'm extremely open minded to either scenario. These are just my personal experiences. I just want to put them out there so amazing doctors like Dr. Saya can use this information to add to everything they already know, and improve even further on giving their patients the best possible care that's currently available to people in need of treatment.

Thanks for the info Gman. It appears there may be some validity in your specific case. Equally as interesting, to me, were the testosterone levels close to 1200 on hCG monotherapy. You are certainly an outlier in that regard.

 

[Zooka15]

Is the difference between say pregnyl and the HCG you get from empower, is that pregnyl is the real thing from pregnant women and empower or others are synthetic?

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Is the difference between say pregnyl and the HCG you get from empower, is that pregnyl is the real thing from pregnant women and empower or others are synthetic?

Guidance we've received from the compounding pharmacies previously is that the same source for raw materials is used by compounding/big pharma.

 

[Gman86]

My previous TRT doctor was equally as impressed with the results. I unfortunately was never able to recreate those numbers about a year later while using the compound pharmacy brands of HCG. It could be that I stopped responding so well to HCG I guess, but the blood work results were so drastically different that it just makes me wonder if it's me not responding as well, or the certain brands of HCG that I was using. Again, never got tested while on Empower Rx HCG, so not sure how I was responding blood work wise to that brand.

 

[Gman86]

The only difference that I can figure out between them all is the bacteriostatic water. Pregnyl comes with it's own vial of bacteriostatic water. Here are the ingredients in the Pregnyl bacteriostatic water vs the generic 30ml vial of bacteriostatic water with the reddish/ purplish cap that has been sent with all 3 compounding pharmacy brands of HCG that I've used, and is most likely the same bacteriostatic water that most people are using to reconstitute their HCG.

Pregnyl bacteriostatic water ingredients: Water for injection with 0.56% sodium chloride and 0.9% benzyl alcohol (preservative). pH adjusted with sodium hydroxide and/or hydrochloric acid if required.

Generic 30ml bacteriostatic water ingredients: 0.9% benzyl alcohol added. Sterile nonpyrogenic.

Those are both word for word what is in each according to their labels. So if by law they all have to use the same raw materials, which I have also heard that they have to do, the bacteriostatic water used to reconstitute is really the only variable that can possibly make a difference. The main difference seems to be that the Pregnyl brand water includes 0.56% sodium chloride, which I believe can increase the shelf life of the HCG once reconstituted, but I'm not completely positive on that. Anybody know anything about the benefits that adding the sodium chloride may have? Or does anyone see why the difference in ingredients could possibly make a difference?

 

[TMI]

Did you consider going back to Pregnyl HCG after using compounded HCG to see if your numbers would go up to their previous values? My guess is your response to HCG diminished over time.

 

[Gman86]

After initially using Pregnyl for mono therapy, I tried to do a restart with Clomid for a bunch of months, but in the end my levels would just not stay elevated once off of the Clomid. I ended up going back on HCG mono therapy, but by this time I was with a new doctor and the only HCG they would prescribe was from two compounding pharmacies that they used. I'm on testosterone and HCG now. Only been on this combo for 2 months, and about to get labs done this week. The reason I switched from Empower RX half way through being on the Test/ HCG combo is that I wasn't feeling much better than prior to TRT, so I thought switching to Pregnyl HCG might make a difference. The only difference I've noticed since switching however is slightly larger testicles. I can't really say I feel any differently subjectively after going back to Pregnyl.

 

[Vettester Chris]

I've had some issues in the past (many years ago) with an ex-clinic's compound HCG. My left teste, better known at the "nutometer", is my gauge. The right side is a little achy, but the left for whatever reason is friggin painful when LH isn't in the ballgame (pun) ... Even with perfectly good HCG, I can feel it starting to lose potency before 60 days. It's all subjective, but the nuts are always honest to their owner.

For the record, I believe Defy has been utilizing Empower, which has been Spot-On in all aspects!

 

[ratbag]

I've been getting my Corion from Reliable for years but for the last 3 months they've been out of stock. I called them and they said they might not be getting any at all. Once I tried Ovidac and it didn't work... my balls shrank and my brain can feel it too. So when Corion was available again i switched back and all was good again. So now I get Corion from
goldendrugshop.com, No Rx required.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

I've been getting my Corion from Reliable for years but for the last 3 months they've been out of stock. I called them and they said they might not be getting any at all. Once I tried Ovidac and it didn't work... my balls shrank and my brain can feel it too. So when Corion was available again i switched back and all was good again. So now I get Corion from
goldendrugshop.com, No Rx required.

Would probably strike more confidence in prospective customers if they spelled pharmacy correct on their web main page "Golden Pharmcy".

 

[Hoosier52]

Would probably strike more confidence in prospective customers if they spelled pharmacy correct on their web main page "Golden Pharmcy".

Good one!

 

[HanOng]

I use Ovidrel® PreFilled Syringe; any comments on this form?

Its really convenient and doesn't require any mixing; just twist and pin.

Hopefully its effective.

 

[ratbag]

Would probably strike more confidence in prospective customers if they spelled pharmacy correct on their web main page "Golden Pharmcy".

Yes I saw that and did an internet search about reviews on the place and nearly all of them were ok. However being in Canada I had to do an online transfer... shipping was free for anything over $100. so I called their US number and they were extremely helpful it making it work. They have a 10 day shipping guarantee. Overall it was a good experience.

 

[Matt Leiser]

Apologies if this has been asked before, but when ordering hcg online does the package come with bac water or do you have to order that separately?