45 Considering TRT: PCa History & Rate My Labs - Feedback Pls

[JYD21]

I'm 45, feel fine, but definitely lower libido impacting my relationship of 4 years, not retaining muscle as much, belly fat harder to get rid of, a bit increased anxiety, so symptoms of "lower" T, but my labs are "normal", EXCEPT my E2 is too low for me. Optimal E2 is around 25-30 for me.

I've been taking LJ100 200mg 5/2 6 weeks on, two off, for about 6 years, and just added Boron 6mg daily a week ago. My libido kinda tanked the last few days, more so than usual. Here are my labs from August 3rd:

NAME	Sep-17	Sep-18	Sept 209	Aug-20	Jan-21	Aug-21	REFERENCE RANGE
	9:14am Fasted	7:30AM Fasted	8AM Fasted	10am Fasted	10:10am fasted	8:45am fasted
ESTRADIOL		24.2	31.4	18.1	29.3	17.7	<=60.7 (PG/ML)
Total TESTOSTERONE	522	581	627	434	534	536	300 - 890 (NG/DL)
SEX HORM BIND GLOBULIN		41.5	43.7	33	37.4	35	16.5 - 55.9 (NMOL/L)
FREE TESTOSTERONE		108.4	114.6	89.3	105	109	47.0 - 244.0 (PG/ML)
PROLACTIN				9.3		13	4.0-26.0 (NG/ML)
FERRITIN				126		127	30-400 (NG/ML)
DHEA						129
PSA, TOTAL
PSA, TOTAL		1.12	1.4	0.99		1.29	<=4.00 (NG/ML)

My brother is a professional bodybuilder, fitness coach and preps for some globally known names. He suggested I start TRT at the following protocol:


75mg test cyp 2x week
25 - 50mg masteron E 2x week
10-12 mg daily boron bisglycinate

I want some feedback from you guys as well. My trepidation to TRT is my dad survived PCa, but is 80 and had his removed 10 years ago and has been impotent ever since.

Thanks for taking the time and offering some thoughts.

 

[madman]

I'm 45, feel fine, but definitely lower libido impacting my relationship of 4 years, not retaining muscle as much, belly fat harder to get rid of, a bit increased anxiety, so symptoms of "lower" T, but my labs are "normal", EXCEPT my E2 is too low for me. Optimal E2 is around 25-30 for me.

I've been taking LJ100 200mg 5/2 6 weeks on, two off, for about 6 years, and just added Boron 6mg daily a week ago. My libido kinda tanked the last few days, more so than usual. Here are my labs from August 3rd:

NAME	Sep-17	Sep-18	Sept 209	Aug-20	Jan-21	Aug-21	REFERENCE RANGE
	9:14am Fasted	7:30AM Fasted	8AM Fasted	10am Fasted	10:10am fasted	8:45am fasted
Test, Free, E2, ETC.
ESTRADIOL		24.2	31.4	18.1	29.3	17.7	<=60.7 (PG/ML)
Total TESTOSTERONE	522	581	627	434	534	536	300 - 890 (NG/DL)
SEX HORM BIND GLOBULIN		41.5	43.7	33	37.4	35	16.5 - 55.9 (NMOL/L)
CALC FREE TESTOSTERONE		108.4	114.6	89.3	105	109	47.0 - 244.0 (PG/ML)
PROLACTIN				9.3		13	4.0-26.0 (NG/ML)
FERRITIN				126		127	30-400 (NG/ML)
DHEA						129
PSA, TOTAL
PSA, TOTAL		1.12	1.4	0.99		1.29	<=4.00 (NG/ML)

My brother is a professional bodybuilder, fitness coach and preps for some globally known names. He suggested I start TRT at the following protocol:





75mg test cyp 2x week
25 - 50mg masteron E 2x week
10-12 mg daily boron bisglycinate

I want some feedback from you guys as well. My trepidation to TRT is my dad survived PCa, but is 80 and had his removed 10 years ago and has been impotent ever since.

Thanks for taking the time and offering some thoughts.

Much more involved than just having healthy T levels let alone other hormones as low libido let alone ED are multifactorial.

Need a more thorough set of labs.

Keep in mind that dysfunctional thyroid/adrenals can easily mimic low-t symptoms.

When were labs done?

Testing should be done in a fasted state between 7-10 am as we want to test at peak.

During the 24hr circadian rhythm of a healthy young male testosterone levels will start to increase around 3-4 am reaching a peak between 6-8 am and by 11-12 pm will start to decline late afternoon/early evening reaching a trough between 6-8 pm.

Fluctuations from peak--->trough would be around 20-25%

Natural T levels follow a diurnal 24 hr circadian rhythm and will start to rise gradually around 3 am reaching peak levels around 8 am

Natural endogenous testosterone secretion is pulsatile and diurnal.

FT 5-10 ng/dL would be considered low.

FT 16-31 (high-end) ng/dL is healthy.

Most men on trt will do well with FT 20-30 ng/dL range.

Some men will feel just fine with a FT 15-20 ng/dL.

Comes down to the individual.


Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the unbound active fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

Your TT 536 ng/dL although not stellar is by no means low and more importantly, seeing as your SHBG is normal 35 nmol/L then your FT would be far from what would be considered low, and even then before jumping to any conclusions the only way to know where your FT level truly sits is to have it tested using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best).




My brother is a professional bodybuilder, fitness coach and preps for some globally known names. He suggested I start TRT at the following protocol:

75mg test cyp 2x week
25 - 50mg masteron E 2x week
10-12 mg daily boron bisglycinate


Hard to believe he would let you rely on supplementing with longjack (Eurycoma longifolia) all those years let alone throwing in drostanolone of the hop when you have no experience using exogenous T let alone have absolutely no idea how your body will react to a said dose of exogenous T.

Even then if there was a boost in T from the so-called T-boosters it would be transient and minimal at best!

19. What is the evidence for herbal or natural testosterone “boosters” in treating TD?

Current evidence-based reviews of the most common ingredients in testosterone boosters (T-boosters) on the market have found minimal to no evidence demonstrating their efficacy.40 Many of the ingredients within such compounds have never been tested for safety and/or efficacy in human trials. Among human trials, only 30% demonstrated an improvement in testosterone levels, 2% resulted in a decrease in testosterone, and 68% had either an indeterminant effect or no effect at all on testosterone levels.41 Concerningly, several case studies have demonstrated severe adverse events from T-boosters that contain banned/illicit substances, including steroids.42,43 Currently, T-boosters cannot be recommended by health practitioners and patients should be cautioned regarding the unknown efficacy and safety of T-boosters, along with the possibility for severe adverse events. Regulated, evidence-based treatments should be offered as an alternative in symptomatic hypogonadal men (moderate LE, strong recommendation).

No point in jumping in on 150 mg T/week let alone adding in drostanolone which has no place in a standard trt protocol.

Supplementing boron will have no significant impact on T.

100 mg/week split (50 mg every 3.5 days) would be a good starting point.

With an SHBG 35 nmol/L, you would most likely achieve a healthy let alone high-end or in some cases absurdly high FT level.

Most men on trt are using 100-200 mg/week and even then most can easily achieve a healthy let alone very high FT on 100-150mg/week.

Sure some men may need the higher end dose to achieve such levels but it is far from common.

Standard 200mg/week protocol pushed by those run-of-the-mill T clinics let alone some doctors in the know.....sure if you are content with having absurdly high T level during the first 2-3 days of the week only to be followed by lower levels come weeks end and in most cases, trough levels at day 7 are still high for many and top it off that they all throw in an AI off the hop to control elevated estradiol!

Keep in mind that the metabolites estradiol and DHT are needed in healthy amounts to experience the full spectrum of testosterones beneficial effects on mood, energy, libido, erectile function, cardiovascular/brain/bone/immune system health, body composition.

*Testosterone drugs provide a hormone identical to that already produced in the body, presenting the same spectrum of physical and physiological effects.

200 mg T/week whether split twice weekly (every 3.5 days), M/W/F, EOD, or daily would be overkill for most and have your trough FT levels through the roof.

Even then the best piece of advice is to start low and go slow using a T only protocol as we want to see how the body reacts to testosterone let alone where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) will have your TT, FT, estradiol, SHBG and other blood markers such as CBC which includes (RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit).

The use of hCG can eventually be added if your main concern is maintaining fertility, minimizing/preventing testicular atrophy while using exogenous T.

 

[JYD21]

You guys rock. This is great info; thank you for sharing! I’m gonna look it all over and reply later after I’ve digested it.

I agree so far that a lower starting trt dose of 50mg every 3.5 days is a better approach. And doing that first without adding/pinning anything else. See how just the test cyp does.

Let’s keep this thread going and appreciate any more opinions and info y’all can share.
Much love.

 

[Systemlord]

I agree so far that a lower starting trt dose of 50mg every 3.5 days is a better approach.

This is a more reasonable starting point, no need to overshoot and end up way too high and symptomatic.

The best approach is keep your protocol simple, change one thing at a time and give each protocol at least 8 weeks or longer.

 

[JYD21]

Much more involved than just having healthy T levels let alone other hormones as low libido let alone ED are multifactorial.

Need a more thorough set of labs.

Keep in mind that dysfunctional thyroid/adrenals can easily mimic low-t symptoms.

Here are my other labs for LH, FSH, TSH, non-lipid and CBC, which those are in great shape. LH, FSH, TSH have alwasy been 'lower-ish normal' for a few years.

NAME	Sep-17	Sep-18	Sept 209	Aug-20	Aug-21	REFERENCE RANGE
	9:14am Fasted	7:30AM Fasted	8AM Fasted	10am Fasted	8:45am fasted
TSH/FSH/LH/Cortisol
FREE T4 (THYROXINE)		1.36	1.19	1.41	1.31	0.80 - 1.90 (NG/DL)
T3 TOTAL		110	98	114	103	80 - 200 (NG/DL)
T3-UPTAKE		n/A	36.1	33.1	Did not provide	24.3 - 39.0 (%)
THYROX. BIND. CAPAC.		n/A	0.9	1		0.8 - 1.3
TSH	0.987	2.05	1.51	1.23	1.05	0.400-4.100 (UIU/ML)
FSH		2.8	2.5	3.2	3.1	1.5 - 12.4 (IU/L)
LH		4.9	4.8	4.5	5.1	1.2 - 8.6 (IU/L)
CORTISOL		na	na	8.5	na	4.8-19.5 (UG/DL)

When were labs done?

Labs are done August 3rd at 8:45am. 100% fasted.

Testing should be done in a fasted state between 7-10 am as we want to test at peak.

During the 24hr circadian rhythm of a healthy young male testosterone levels will start to increase around 3-4 am reaching a peak between 6-8 am and by 11-12 pm will start to decline late afternoon/early evening reaching a trough between 6-8 pm.

Fluctuations from peak--->trough would be around 20-25%

Natural T levels follow a diurnal 24 hr circadian rhythm and will start to rise gradually around 3 am reaching peak levels around 8 am

Natural endogenous testosterone secretion is pulsatile and diurnal.

FT 5-10 ng/dL would be considered low.

FT 16-31 (high-end) ng/dL is healthy.

Most men on trt will do well with FT 20-30 ng/dL range.

Some men will feel just fine with a FT 15-20 ng/dL.

Comes down to the individual.


Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the unbound active fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

Your TT 536 ng/dL although not stellar is by no means low and more importantly, seeing as your SHBG is normal 35 nmol/L then your FT would be far from what would be considered low, and even then before jumping to any conclusions the only way to know where your FT level truly sits is to have it tested using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best).

OK, good info. Yeah, my Free T is sitting slightly below the middle range at 109

109	47.0 - 244.0 (PG/ML

I think I want to stop anything OTC that isn't really helping.

I will respond to the info about prostate cancer risks in that other thread.

 

[madman]

Here are my other labs for LH, FSH, TSH, non-lipid and CBC, which those are in great shape. LH, FSH, TSH have alwasy been 'lower-ish normal' for a few years.

NAME	Sep-17	Sep-18	Sept 209	Aug-20	Aug-21	REFERENCE RANGE
	9:14am Fasted	7:30AM Fasted	8AM Fasted	10am Fasted	8:45am fasted
TSH/FSH/LH/Cortisol
FREE T4 (THYROXINE)		1.36	1.19	1.41	1.31	0.80 - 1.90 (NG/DL)
T3 TOTAL		110	98	114	103	80 - 200 (NG/DL)
T3-UPTAKE		n/A	36.1	33.1	Did not provide	24.3 - 39.0 (%)
THYROX. BIND. CAPAC.		n/A	0.9	1		0.8 - 1.3
TSH	0.987	2.05	1.51	1.23	1.05	0.400-4.100 (UIU/ML)
FSH		2.8	2.5	3.2	3.1	1.5 - 12.4 (IU/L)
LH		4.9	4.8	4.5	5.1	1.2 - 8.6 (IU/L)
CORTISOL		na	na	8.5	na	4.8-19.5 (UG/DL)

Labs are done August 3rd at 8:45am. 100% fasted.


OK, good info. Yeah, my Free T is sitting slightly below the middle range at 109

109	47.0 - 244.0 (PG/ML

I think I want to stop anything OTC that isn't really helping.



I will respond to the info about prostate cancer risks in that other thread.

Again you will need to have your FT retested using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best) in order to know where your FT level truly sits!

When it comes to testing TT (LC/MS-MS) let alone FT(ED or UF) using the most accurate assays any one of these would suffice!


Quest Diagnostics

1. Total Testosterone (LC/MS- No Upper Limit) and Free Testosterone (Equilibrium Dialysis)

Total and Free Testosterone Test Panel plus Hematocrit

Lowest Cost Hematocrit, Total and Free Testosterone Test Panel for Men on TRT

www.discountedlabs.com

2. Total Testosterone (LC/MS- No Upper Limit) and Free Testosterone (Equilibrium Ultrafiltration)

Testosterone, Free (Equilibrium Dialysis) and Total, MS - Most Affordable and Accurate Test

Get an affordable and accurate testosterone test results with our Total Testosterone, M and Free (Equilibrium Dialysis) test. Visit DiscountedLabs.com for more information.

www.discountedlabs.com

Labcorp

1. Total Testosterone (LC/MS- No Upper Limit) and Free Testosterone (Equilibrium Dialysis)

500726: Testosterone, Free, Mass Spectrometry/Equilibrium Dialysis (Endocrine Sciences) | Labcorp

Labcorp test details for Testosterone, Free, Mass Spectrometry/Equilibrium Dialysis (Endocrine Sciences)

www.labcorp.com

2. Total Testosterone (LC/MS- No Upper Limit) and Free Testosterone (Equilibrium Ultrafiltration)

070038: Testosterone, Free, Equilibrium Ultrafiltration With Total Testosterone, LC/MS-MS | Labcorp

Labcorp test details for Testosterone, Free, Equilibrium Ultrafiltration With Total Testosterone, LC/MS-MS

www.labcorp.com

 

[JYD21]

OK, gotcha. I'll seek these out when I test next. Thanks!

 

[JYD21]

I'm reading a lot about guys that start slower, like 50mg a week. Weekly 50mg injections. Is that perhaps a better start?

 

[madman]

I'm reading a lot about guys that start slower, like 50mg a week. Weekly 50mg injections. Is that perhaps a better start?

Although some men do well using <100 mg T/week it is far from common.

Many tend to aim for higher-end FT levels.

Comes down to the individual and where they feel best.

100 mg/week split (50 mg every 3.5 days) would be a good starting point.

 

[JYD21]

Although some men do well using <100 mg T/week it is far from common.

Many tend to aim for higher-end FT levels.

Comes down to the individual and where they feel best.

100 mg/week split (50 mg every 3.5 days) would be a good starting point.

Ok, that's still my plan. I have 250ml test cyp.