23 year old, low T, this is my story! Clomid??? Please help!

[MunchEase]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for welcoming me to the forum! Really awesome to see you guys giving multi-paragraph responses to complete strangers on the internet. Hoping you guys have some guidance for me and I’d love to help you out with any issues I’m educated in!

I am 23 years old, in peak physical condition (semi-professional athlete, 180 lbs, 6'1), eat incredibly healthy, live a healthy lifestyle, and overall have no serious health issues. I’ve gone through bad anxiety intermittently but I don’t believe this issue is related. Not on medication for it.

I have been struggling with libido/erectile issues HARD over the past five months, and have spent probably a cumulative $2000 already trying to find an answer. I have seen three M.D.’s, a naturopathic doctor, two sex therapists, and trolled forums for more hours online more than you could imagine! This is my first time reaching out in a forum.

Anyways, I followed everyone’s directions, experimented with tons of vitamins, was taking maca, adrenal supplements, and doing everything in my path to fix this issue. I took zinc, vitamin D, B, L-arginine, GNC Mega Man vitamin packs, was already in peak physical condition, getting good sleeps, etc, but I saw literally zero improvement. It's gotten to the point where I have no morning/sporadic erections, no sex drive, etc. And then of course I meet an amazing girl (perfect timing lol)

I have been dating her now for the past 3 months, everything is going perfect, BUT I have been RUTHLESSLY coping with this. I take Cialis before we hang out every time - occasionally I am superman and rock her socks off, other times, I can't function period.
NOW

I got my blood work done multiple times and was told everything was normal by everyone. When I reviewed it myself, I noticed my testosterone was 372 ng/dl. Then I looked online. HOW DID NOBODY NOTICE THIS?! I couldn’t have driven faster back to the doctor’s office. There’s no reason my testosterone should be at the level of a 70 year olds! Finally, it all made sense. I was prescribed Androgel, and took it for possibly a week. Immediately I started to see results - I started to get morning wood, remembered what it was like to have a sex drive again, and the slow recovery process had begun. I wasn’t fixed but I definitely noticed improvement.

But I also contacted a private medical clinic specializing in hormones (this process is gonna potentially cost $3000). The doctor was extremely alarmed that I was taking Androgel at such a young age. She told me that she feared I would never be able to have kids, and I was way too young to be shutting down my natural production - I would have to be on TRT for life. So I quit, and am one week in to a two week waiting period to get fresh baseline blood work done (no supplements, no nothing) so we can implement a new plan. Four days off TRT and I am right back to square one. Incredibly disheartening because I know it’s probably going to get worse before it gets better, and it’s gonna take some time to get back to normal!

ANYWAYS

HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS:

1) This specialty doctor has said she will probably get me using Clomid. I’ve done my fair share of Googling and noticed horror stories of it killing libido/erections. She told me to stay off the internet and has said it has literally had a 100% success rate with her clients? What do you guys think of this?
2) Do you guys have any guidance/suggestions? Alternative measures? I'll take anything I can get!


Thank you so much for taking the time to read this (if you made it through!) I look forward to working with you guys and hopefully contributing to this forum!

TESTOSTERONE: 12.9 nmol/L (372 ng/dl)
TSH: 1.52 mIU/L
CORTISOL: 576 nmol/L
FERRITIN: 47 ug/L (right at the bottom of normal range)
DHEA: 13.9 umol/L (over the normal range)

 

[Nelson Vergel]

You do not have to lose fertility on TRT if you combine it with HCG. Clomid does not improve erections in most men.

Please watch my video on TRT + HCG

https://www.excelmale.com/?s=149-Ho...o-Preserve-Fertility-Libido-and-Testicle-Size

Also, try to get on 5 mg per day of Cialis for a few weeks while your TT reaches levels above 600-700 ng/dL.

 

[MunchEase]

Thank you for the quick reply my friend!

You are obviously someone who knows what they are talking about and I would trust your opinion over 90% of M.D.'s.

Would you recommend TRT for a 23 year old male with my numbers? Or do you believe I should go an alternate route?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

MuchEase


At 23 years of age, you may want to try to increase testosterone naturally if you can. But if you decide to be on TRT, HCG is definitely something to consider along with your TRT.

What are your LH, FSH and DHT?

Have you ever taken anabolic steroids or oral testosterone boosters?

Are you getting morning wood? Do you get hard when you masturbate? Is there any possibility that your ED is related to performance anxiety or lack of attraction?

Depending on what your LH and FSH show, you may want to consider going through a program like this one. Keep in mind that you will probably need Cialis or any other ED drug in the meanwhile since PCT usually does not improve ED while men are going through it.

 

[MunchEase]

I am not sure what my LH, FSH, DHT levels are, I am getting an assortment of tests done this weekend! Will get back to you on that.

Never taken any anabolic steroids or other testosterone - contrary to my low T I am still quite muscular and athletic!

RARELY get morning wood. Erections are weak at best when masturbating - I won't be in the mood, I'll get myself to watch porn anyways, and force one out!

TOTALLY attracted to the new girlfriend, great connection, and physically we match up perfect. There is certainly an element of performance anxiety tacked on to this (based on this issue), the issue is definitely anxiety causing, but there is definitely something physical going on. Because I have a low sex-drive and struggle to keep erections when masturbating and there is no pressure. Put it this way - I woke up cuddling my naked girlfriend who I am totally attracted to on Cialis and was still soft! When I do get hard, we have amazing sex.

I have another appointment with my fresh blood work at the specialty clinic Tuesday. Will get back to you with my results, and maybe I will learn something you guys could gain from as well!

 

[MunchEase]

I have one final question for you as well if you don't mind!

I asked the doctor on the phone today about Clomid, saying at least 80% of what I read online regarding clomid and erections/libido is bad. She immediately got frustrated, listing all of her credentials and asking "Who do you trust, me or Google?" insinuating if I didn't trust her, I should go somewhere else. Lol she's a very nice/smart lady, I don't hold it against her, bit of a fireball though!

But the internet forums are real people who have gone through this stuff! People who obviously care enough to spend their time writing about it! If they're as obsessed as I am, I think there's a real merit to what these people have to say!

Based on your experience, what do you think of Clomid, and do you think it is the best route (for a 23 year old)?

I hope I will gain something to offer back soon!

 

[DHM]

Mid 30s here, multi-sport athlete

Clomid looks great on paper, but I rarely feel great and sex drive/ erections are nothing to write home about.


Do you have or have you ever had a porn addiction or watch porn regularly?

 

[MunchEase]

Mid 30s here, multi-sport athlete

Clomid looks great on paper, but I rarely feel great and sex drive/ erections are nothing to write home about.


Do you have or have you ever had a porn addiction or watch porn regularly?

I watch a healthy amount of porn but this is certainly not the issue! Totally turned on by my girlfriend - it is something physical for sure. I felt the difference during my week on TRT. Psychological elements/stress plays a BIG factor, but even when I've had the greatest day, sex drive is still low.

Did you regret taking Clomid or, given the circumstances, are you happy you did?

In theory, I am already tripping balls about this issue, if clomid is gonna make libido/erections WORSE than they already are, I might say "**** it" and go on TRT.

 

[bigfred32]

Im reading this post and imagining the conversation you had with this doctor in my head and getting pissed. Im still a newbie when it comes to TRT and learning everyday, thanks to the internet, by the way. How dare this doctor talk down to you, its your body, you have every right to question treatment, regardless of what her certificates say. Even though I was a professional in my field of work for over 30 years I learned something new almost everyday....all I can say is run for the hills son....literally!
Find a new doctor and good luck....
Im still pissed by the way! Lol

 

[Gene Devine]

At 23 years of age to have such low levels would lead an astute Physician to look for an underlying pathology as the root cause.

At you age you at not even at peak levels yet!

There are any number of metabolic disorders, to Pituitary tumors to testicular disease and on and on that can cause hypogonadism.

Many times with guys your age a tiny Pituitary tumor called an Adenoma can be the cause. One of the biggest symptoms is low libido and ED as well. You need to have prolactin tested.

Ever have any head or groin injuries?

Here are the labs you need done for a good eval:



Testosterone Total
DHEA-S
Testosterone Bioavailable
Estradiol (“sensitive” assay only)
Testosterone Free
Chemistries
SHBG
CBC
LH
PSA
FSH
Prolactin (if T <150, or if sexual dysfunction)
DHT

 

[baughts]

Im reading this post and imagining the conversation you had with this doctor in my head and getting pissed. Im still a newbie when it comes to TRT and learning everyday, thanks to the internet, by the way. How dare this doctor talk down to you, its your body, you have every right to question treatment, regardless of what her certificates say. Even though I was a professional in my field of work for over 30 years I learned something new almost everyday....all I can say is run for the hills son....literally!
Find a new doctor and good luck....
Im still pissed by the way! Lol

I agree find yourself a new doctor. Defy medical specializes in all of the problems you are having.

 

[MunchEase]

At 23 years of age to have such low levels would lead an astute Physician to look for an underlying pathology as the root cause.

At you age you at not even at peak levels yet!

There are any number of metabolic disorders, to Pituitary tumors to testicular disease and on and on that can cause hypogonadism.

Many times with guys your age a tiny Pituitary tumor called an Adenoma can be the cause. One of the biggest symptoms is low libido and ED as well. You need to have prolactin tested.

Ever have any head or groin injuries?

Here are the labs you need done for a good eval:



Testosterone Total
DHEA-S
Testosterone Bioavailable
Estradiol (“sensitive” assay only)
Testosterone Free
Chemistries
SHBG
CBC
LH
PSA
FSH
Prolactin (if T <150, or if sexual dysfunction)
DHT

Thanks for your detailed reply buddy! I am going for new testing tomorrow at 6am, will make sure to post the results + include any missing things from this for my requisition. My case can be another one (hopefully) people can learn from.

I am a professional mixed martial arts/fighter instructor so I certainly get punched in the head quite often . Can't be healthy, but I doubt it's the cause of my problems.

I have had (since I can remember), a hydrocele on my right testicle. I had it ultra sounded last year and it was determined it was a non-issue, however, I am having that re-evaluated this week as well.

Incredibly excited to get to the bottom of this! I've been getting seriously sick all the time (like every two months), and I get good sleeps and take tons of vitamins. No reason I should be sick this much! Training has been more difficult - again, no reason I should gas out after 3 rounds on the pads! I'm in shape! Lastly, I have gone through through several bouts of depression, and constantly battle anxiety! My point - if my symptoms can be even IMPROVED, I would be hyped.

 

[MunchEase]

Im reading this post and imagining the conversation you had with this doctor in my head and getting pissed. Im still a newbie when it comes to TRT and learning everyday, thanks to the internet, by the way. How dare this doctor talk down to you, its your body, you have every right to question treatment, regardless of what her certificates say. Even though I was a professional in my field of work for over 30 years I learned something new almost everyday....all I can say is run for the hills son....literally!
Find a new doctor and good luck....
Im still pissed by the way! Lol

Hahahahaha appreciate the empathy there my friend! Exactly! You should feel comfortable asking your doctor anything! It should always be an open + respectful discussion! Especially when you're doing it privately and paying out of your own pocket...

While I didn't enjoy her bluntness, she's seemed leaps and bounds more knowledgable than the previous people I saw. Going to stick it out at least till I get to the bottom of this!

 

[Gene Devine]

Post your labs here in this thread complete with reference ranges.

Make sure to get the labs I posted....very important.

We will help you!

 

[MunchEase]

Hello again everyone!

Thank you once again. I am back with updated test results! Obviously no medical advice is allowed, but any tips, insight, or helpful suggestions would be awesome! I am wanting to consult my boys on here before commencing any treatment, because given my past experience above ^^^, my trust in the medical system is incredibly low. Here are my numbers!


Testosterone: 10.1 nmol/L OR 291 ng/dl ———> (reference 8.0-29.0)
SBGH: 34 nmol/L ———> (reference 10-55)
Free Testosterone: 201 pmol/L OR 15.62 ng/dl ———> (reference 175-700)
DHEA: 12.3 umol/L ———> (reference 2.2-13.0)
TSH: 2.29 mIU/L ———> (reference 0.20-4.00)
Prolactin: 12 ug/L (reference 0-15)
Free T3: 5.9 pmol/L (reference 3.5-6.5)
Free T4: 18.9 pmol/L (reference 10.0-25.0)
Estradiol: 45 pmol/L (reference 0-160)
Cortisol AM: 500 nmol/L (reference 200-690)
Progesterone: 3.3 nmol/L (reference 0.0-3.0)
FSH: 15 IU/L (reference 1-18)
LH: 5 IU/L (reference 1-9)
Iron: 13 umol/L (reference 12-31)
Ferritin: 41 ug/L (reference 30-400)

Obviously, my testosterone levels are very low, my prolactin levels are on the higher end, my iron/ferritin levels are also very low, and I don't know what's normal about the rest. Obviously there are ranges you can pay attention to, but we all know those ranges are highly "generous". My numbers should (in theory) be peak at the age of 23.

I have been advised by my doctor to go on 25 mg Clomid a day along with 250 mg Chrysin. I thought 25 mg might be a bit high compared to what people have been telling me, so I would love some suggestions on that as well.

ANYWAYS, I'll leave it at that. If y'all have any suggestions, advice, whatever, I would be forever grateful. If there's a fund I can donate to or support, let me know!

Thanks!

H

 

[kramesh]

Hi Munchease

I just posted a thread on my case.. I was reading yours - there are some similarities:

I am 35yr old male - pretty healthy (slightly overweight) - 6'1" 220 pounds. (20-25 pounds overweight)

In Feb 2015 - I went to the urologist to get my ED situation checked. He checked my testosterone levels - and I had results of 224ng/dL (range 348-1197) [LOW]

I went back a week later to have them rechecked - tests were
Total T = 164ng/dL;
FSH = 19.2 (HIGH);
LH - 6.0 (Higher end)
Prolactin = 13.2 (Higher End)

He said I likely have Primary Hypogonadism and before putting me on testosterone replacement, we can check if Clomid works... chances are it will not. Lets.

5 weeks later at 25mg ED Clomid

Testosterone = 466 ng/dL (Range 348-1197)
Free Testosterone = 12.9 (Range 8.7-25.1)
SHBG = 21.8nmol (Range 16.5-55.9)
Prolactin = 6.7 (Range 4.0 - 15.2)
LH = 13.4 [HIGH] (Range 1.7 - 8.6)
FSH = 31.0 [HIGH] (Range 1.5 - 12.4)
Cortisol = 29.6 (HIGH) (Range 2.3 - 19.4)
ACTH, Plasma = 22.6pg/mL (Range 7.2 - 63.3)
TSH = 2.56 (0.45 - 4.5)


I will tell you that Clomid WILL increase
1) Testosterone - I had a ~ 300 point increase (not much compared to the stories you here.. but every little bit helps)
2) LH and FSH and Prolactin- here is the problem - both you and I have high FSH and higher end LH and also Prolactin is on higher end. At the end of my 5 weeks of 25mg ED of Clomid - my FSH is through the roof and my LH is also High. However, the Prolactin went down to normal range.

What I have not had done is any estradiol level checks - my endo said thats not a concern...

 

[MunchEase]

I am just beginning to get educated on the subject, but I believe estradiol is EXTREMELY significant, especially when talking about your symptoms (mood, erections, libido, etc). I would get that checked, either through the doc or through Nelson.

How were your symptoms before/after Clomid? Numbers are cool but obviously results are what I am after =)

 

[CoastWatcher]

What I have not had done is any estradiol level checks - my endo said thats not a concern...

I would urge you to check estradiol levels as it can make a dramatic difference in how you feel.

 

[kramesh]

Hi Munchease

So before Clomid - I felt pretty lethargic, took me forever to get out of bed, and felt pretty sleepy in the afternoons. The biggest problem was the ED I experienced with my girl. Lost wood pretty quick. That's what prompted me to go to the doc

The 25mg Clomid - it's a LOT. Fed felt a little weird, anxiety levels were higher. In terms of erections, the first 2 weeks were great. However, by week 4 - I lost wood midway, but not as quick as before.

After 5 weeks, I dropped dosing to 12.5mg. It's been a week and I don't feel too bad - but Clomid has a pretty long half life... So I think it will take a good 10 days to see the real effects

I expect my testosterone and LH and FSH will fall.

I am trying to see if I can raise testosterone naturally. Will know in a few weeks

Any advice in the interim would be appreciated.

 

[Gene Devine]

Hello again everyone!

Thank you once again. I am back with updated test results! Obviously no medical advice is allowed, but any tips, insight, or helpful suggestions would be awesome! I am wanting to consult my boys on here before commencing any treatment, because given my past experience above ^^^, my trust in the medical system is incredibly low. Here are my numbers!


Testosterone: 10.1 nmol/L OR 291 ng/dl ———> (reference 8.0-29.0)
SBGH: 34 nmol/L ———> (reference 10-55)
Free Testosterone: 201 pmol/L OR 15.62 ng/dl ———> (reference 175-700)
DHEA: 12.3 umol/L ———> (reference 2.2-13.0)
TSH: 2.29 mIU/L ———> (reference 0.20-4.00)
Prolactin: 12 ug/L (reference 0-15)
Free T3: 5.9 pmol/L (reference 3.5-6.5)
Free T4: 18.9 pmol/L (reference 10.0-25.0)
Estradiol: 45 pmol/L (reference 0-160)
Cortisol AM: 500 nmol/L (reference 200-690)
Progesterone: 3.3 nmol/L (reference 0.0-3.0)
FSH: 15 IU/L (reference 1-18)
LH: 5 IU/L (reference 1-9)
Iron: 13 umol/L (reference 12-31)
Ferritin: 41 ug/L (reference 30-400)

Obviously, my testosterone levels are very low, my prolactin levels are on the higher end, my iron/ferritin levels are also very low, and I don't know what's normal about the rest. Obviously there are ranges you can pay attention to, but we all know those ranges are highly "generous". My numbers should (in theory) be peak at the age of 23.

I have been advised by my doctor to go on 25 mg Clomid a day along with 250 mg Chrysin. I thought 25 mg might be a bit high compared to what people have been telling me, so I would love some suggestions on that as well.

ANYWAYS, I'll leave it at that. If y'all have any suggestions, advice, whatever, I would be forever grateful. If there's a fund I can donate to or support, let me know!

Thanks!

H

Besides both Total and Free Testosterone being low; nothing here is a red flag.

Estrogen is fine and if not the "Sensitive" lab really not very accurate and I don't see that it was the Sensitive lab.

Progesterone is a tad high but nothing to worry about but just keep an eye on it.

Prolactin on the other hand is getting up there for your age. High Prolactin can be a symptom of a Pituitary Tumor called an Adenoma that can produce higher levels of Prolactin which can cause lower Testosterone serum levels. While your levels don't suggest that but it's something you want to talk to your Doctor about at the very least.

Thyroid labs look good.

Baring any serious pathology you are strong candidate for testosterone replacement.