Trans scrotal testosterone cream application is a game changer

So I was on injections of Testosterone cyp for almost 4 years before switching over to scrotal testosterone cream application. Let me tell you it has been absolutely amazing how much better I feel on the cream verses the injections. I dose it at 150 mg daily (3 clicks), 50 mg in the morning before bed (I work nights) and 100 mg about an hour before I leave for work at night. I was doing daily sub q injections for the past couple years, 20 mg cyp daily. I felt good on that protocol, but this blows that protocol out of the water. I messed up and did labs about 2 hours after my application and everything came back out of range, with free t at 48. I would encourage anyone interested to give the scrotal t-cream application a go, I can't see myself ever going back to injections.

 

You also have the DHT all wrong. Why can it not be the Aromatase inhibitor being a medication with side effects that caused your problem? Why is it DHT? The DHT receptors at the tissue level are fully saturated at a fairly low testosterone level (250ng/dl in the prostate for example) What you are measuring in the serum is just excess. It has no effect on the tissues, because those receptors have been fully saturated.

I couldn’t agree more. My dht is sitting at 180 right now top range is 85 I believe. I legit have no so-called “high dht” symptoms. non at all. The only side effect I might have is way better erections then injections lol.

 

I'd bet against it if your HPTA is suppressed. I suspect changes in DHT are going to be smaller than the measurement errors of our tests.

All I can give you is a non-scrotal failure story. A lot of DHT, highly variably testosterone, and poor subjective results.


This sounds like an oversimplification to me. Depends on which receptors. On topical testosterone with relatively low serum T levels I had body and facial hair going crazy. Switch to injections with 2-3 times higher testosterone and the excess hair goes away.

I have the same amount of body hair on cream as injections. was It trt or the natural progression of aging for me. My dad is a very hairy dude too. It Seemed like trt ramped up my body hair growth but can’t be sure. My dht was mid range on injections and way over range on cream. And no difference at all in body hair

 

... All the guys that I see “consistently“ doing well are in very basic protocols. ...

You might rephrase, since I should be counted as an exception. I'll grant that there may be some non-essential parts to my complicated protocol. But no amount of tweaking "basic protocols" got me close to the consistency that I enjoy now.

I have the same amount of body hair on cream as injections. was It trt or the natural progression of aging for me. My dad is a very hairy dude too. It Seemed like trt ramped up my body hair growth but can’t be sure. My dht was mid range on injections and way over range on cream. And no difference at all in body hair

The point here is that his blanket statement is demonstrably false. We do not have all our androgen receptors saturated at "fairly low testosterone" levels. If that were true then nobody would need more than those low levels.

 

You might rephrase, since I should be counted as an exception. I'll grant that there may be some non-essential parts to my complicated protocol. But no amount of tweaking "basic protocols" got me close to the consistency that I enjoy now.


The point here is that his blanket statement is demonstrably false. We do not have all our androgen receptors saturated at "fairly low testosterone" levels. If that were true then nobody would need more than those low levels.

Before you comment, make sure you understand the physiology of androgens, as well as DHT etc. I’ll be glad for you some literature on DHT so do you understand that at target tissues the receptors are fully saturated at a low testosterone level. Take a look at Morgentalera saturation model.

 

I'd bet against it if your HPTA is suppressed. I suspect changes in DHT are going to be smaller than the measurement errors of our tests.

All I can give you is a non-scrotal failure story. A lot of DHT, highly variably testosterone, and poor subjective results.


This sounds like an oversimplification to me. Depends on which receptors. On topical testosterone with relatively low serum T levels I had body and facial hair going crazy. Switch to injections with 2-3 times higher testosterone and the excess hair goes away.

Sorry that it sounds like an oversimplification, but it’s just the facts and the physiology.

 

You also have the DHT all wrong. Why can it not be the Aromatase inhibitor being a medication with side effects that caused your problem? Why is it DHT? The DHT receptors at the tissue level are fully saturated at a fairly low testosterone level (250ng/dl in the prostate for example) What you are measuring in the serum is just excess. It has no effect on the tissues, because those receptors have been fully saturated.

Anything is possible, but it doesn’t seem logical that the anastrozole would have the cardiovascular effects I experienced. Androgens, on the other hand, are well-known to do this.

I am open to your explanation if you have one.

 

If you feel like scrotal was bringing your levels too high. Why not just lower the dose? you’ll save money by having to apply less cream. And also no risk of transference. my dht and estrogen were the same on scrotal vs non scrotal when t levels were similar. Again you’re completely overthinking this. From reading too much bs on the forums. People in this forum are always looking for problems when switching protocol’s And it breeds all this nonsense and overthinking. Trust me I know better than anyone. I’m nuts go back and look at my post history. Anyway. Stop worrying about e2 and dht. Just focus on finding a dose where you feel good at.

Good suggestion. I have already considered this. I was only doing one click on the scrotum. I don't think half clicks are very consistent. So, I would have to get a different strength cream. I happen to have 20% and 15%, so I could drop the dose by changing the cream.

That said, I decided to try a similar dose, but on the arms. I can always push it up from there (ie, apply to well absorbed areas) once I determine I can tolerate things.

I must be a snowflake. I don't tolerate rapid changes very well.

 

Before you comment, make sure you understand the physiology of androgens, as well as DHT etc. I’ll be glad for you some literature on DHT so do you understand that at target tissues the receptors are fully saturated at a low testosterone level. Take a look at Morgentalera saturation model.

I'm aware of this particular saturation model, though the details are more complex than you imply. Your prior phrasing is still wrong, highlighting the perils of making such generalizations. Your current phrasing can only be rescued if you force a restrictive definition of "target tissues". At least I assume you're not claiming that androgen receptors in muscle tissue are saturated at low levels of testosterone.

I recall someone making similar remarks about how serum estradiol is "just excess" and that such excess is inconsequential. I think I suggested he try injecting a milligram every day to test that idea.

 

Anything is possible, but it doesn’t seem logical that the anastrozole would have the cardiovascular effects I experienced. Androgens, on the other hand, are well-known to do this.

I am open to your explanation if you have one.

Really? Since DHT is over the counter in some countries and we have multiple studies raising DHT by factors of 10 and yet they get none of the symptoms that you complained of. Are you trying to associate the increase in DHT from testosterone with the use of anabolic steroids? That’s an apple and oranges comparison. What well-known cardiovascular adverse effects have resulted from taking testosterone? On the other hand, what adverse cardiac events have occurred while taking a Aromatase inhibitors? Side effects of Aromatase inhibitors have included myocardial infarction, angina pectoris, hypertension, and Venous thrombolic events just to name a few…. Testosterone and its active metabolites have never been shown to do any of that.

 

I'm aware of this particular saturation model, though the details are more complex than you imply. Your prior phrasing is still wrong, highlighting the perils of making such generalizations. Your current phrasing can only be rescued if you force a restrictive definition of "target tissues". At least I assume you're not claiming that androgen receptors in muscle tissue are saturated at low levels of testosterone.

I recall someone making similar remarks about how serum estradiol is "just excess" and that such excess is inconsequential. I think I suggested he try injecting a milligram every day to test that idea.

Testosterone goes down three pathways, whether you make it or take it. It has a direct effect on muscle tissue, and everyone knows that increasing testosterone levels increase androgen receptors as they are auto regulated in muscle tissue. But what we’re talking about is a different situation. Testosterone has to be converted into estradiol and DHT, in other target tissues. You can only make so much DHT and estradiol as well, because the enzymes have a saturation point. Once the receptors in those target tissues are fully saturated, the remaining DHT and estradiol or just excess. You don’t have an infinite number of receptors at the target tissue. So the amount of DHT and estradiol is limited, and each individual and the number androgen receptors are also limited. The saturation point of the engine receptors in target tissue like the prostate or in the skin, etc. or at a relatively low level of testosterone. Take a little look at the prescribing information on a anastrozole in the package insert.

 

Really? Since DHT is over the counter in some countries and we have multiple studies raising DHT by factors of 10 and yet they get none of the symptoms that you complained of. Are you trying to associate the increase in DHT from testosterone with the use of anabolic steroids? That’s an apple and oranges comparison. What well-known cardiovascular adverse effects have resulted from taking testosterone? On the other hand, what adverse cardiac events have occurred while taking a Aromatase inhibitors? Side effects of Aromatase inhibitors have included myocardial infarction, angina pectoris, hypertension, and Venous thrombolic events just to name a few…. Testosterone and its active metabolites have never been shown to do any of that.

Look, man, I am not trying to be argumentative. I didn't realize this thread had a contentious history until I looked book at old posts. My intention is not to revive all that. I am literally looking for answers. I am a long time struggler on TRT for various reasons. I want to feel good, and I am looking for explanations for why I felt the way I felt. If your answer is correct, I'd be more than delighted to know that all I need to do stay away from AI's. I am not 100% convinced that was the cause, but am open to the possibility.

For what it's worth, I have taken an AI on various occasions and have never experienced the CV effects I described (n=1). This article suggests androgens have various adrenergic affects that may be relevant in my case.

 

... You can only make so much DHT and estradiol as well, because the enzymes have a saturation point. Once the receptors in those target tissues are fully saturated, the remaining DHT and estradiol or just excess. You don’t have an infinite number of receptors at the target tissue. So the amount of DHT and estradiol is limited, and each individual and the number androgen receptors are also limited. The saturation point of the engine receptors in target tissue like the prostate or in the skin, etc. or at a relatively low level of testosterone. Take a little look at the prescribing information on a anastrozole in the package insert.

Thanks for that clarification. One interesting question that arises is, which saturates first, the metabolite-producing enzymes or the target receptors? Does it vary between tissues and has this been quantified?

Because you include the skin as a target tissue, are you suggesting that any man susceptible to androgenetic alopecia would not see accelerated hair loss if he began injecting significant amounts of DHT? For simplicity say he's on TRT so there's minimal impact on testosterone.

 

Thanks for that clarification. One interesting question that arises is, which saturates first, the metabolite-producing enzymes or the target receptors? Does it vary between tissues and has this been quantified?

Because you include the skin as a target tissue, are you suggesting that any man susceptible to androgenetic alopecia would not see accelerated hair loss if he began injectingk significant amounts of DHT? For simplicity say he's on TRT so there's minimal impact on

Thanks for that clarification. One interesting question that arises is, which saturates first, the metabolite-producing enzymes or the target receptors? Does it vary between tissues and has this been quantified?

Because you include the skin as a target tissue, are you suggesting that any man susceptible to androgenetic alopecia would not see accelerated hair loss if he began injecting significant amounts of DHT? For simplicity say he's on TRT so there's minimal impact on testosterone.

Studies giving man transdermal DHT for 24 months exposing them to exceptionally high levels of DHT did not result in acne, male androgenic, alopecia, or other skin pathology. Target tissues have local homeostatic control mechanisms that tightly control DHT concentrations. So circulating levels have no effect even when they are Supra physiologic (700ng/dl for 24 months). There’s just so much miss information on forums that is not supported in the medical literature. So everything I’ve just written here is directly from the medical literature.

 

Good suggestion. I have already considered this. I was only doing one click on the scrotum. I don't think half clicks are very consistent. So, I would have to get a different strength cream. I happen to have 20% and 15%, so I could drop the dose by changing the cream.

That said, I decided to try a similar dose, but on the arms. I can always push it up from there (ie, apply to well absorbed areas) once I determine I can tolerate things.

I must be a snowflake. I don't tolerate rapid changes very well.

You’re not a snowflake at all. I completely understand. But not pushing through is one of the biggest reasons I’ve been struggling for 15 years. I’ve also pushe through other protocols in the past and only got worse. So i understand you being apprehensive. Nobody can say for sure if it will work for “you“. But like I said before you’ll never be able to write cream off for good.

 

Look, man, I am not trying to be argumentative. I didn't realize this thread had a contentious history until I looked book at old posts. My intention is not to revive all that. I am literally looking for answers. I am a long time struggler on TRT for various reasons. I want to feel good, and I am looking for explanations for why I felt the way I felt. If your answer is correct, I'd be more than delighted to know that all I need to do stay away from AI's. I am not 100% convinced that was the cause, but am open to the possibility.

For what it's worth, I have taken an AI on various occasions and have never experienced the CV effects I described (n=1). This article suggests androgens have various adrenergic affects that may be relevant in my case.

I also personally don’t understand anyone that “struggles” on testosterone. Did you struggle when you were younger and had good testosterone levels? If you didn’t then why are you struggling now? If it is done correctly you should not struggle now any different than you struggled when you were younger with more optimal levels. A lot of the struggles men have is due to miss information on what testosterone does and what it doesn’t do as well as their own individual expectations. Many men also will not give testosterone time to work, especially when they first start. The body simply has to go through an acclimation process, and most men can’t deal with some minor issues that may occur initially that go away with time. They want to knee-jerk and change something that the slightest hint of a perceived problem, and if they would just leave it alone, it would go away. It’s a very very simple process

 

I also personally don’t understand anyone that “struggles” on testosterone. Did you struggle when you were younger and had good testosterone levels? If you didn’t then why are you struggling now? If it is done correctly you should not struggle now any different than you struggled when you were younger with more optimal levels. A lot of the struggles men have is due to miss information on what testosterone does and what it doesn’t do as well as their own individual expectations. Many men also will not give testosterone time to work, especially when they first start. The body simply has to go through an acclimation process, and most men can’t deal with some minor issues that may occur initially that go away with time. They want to knee-jerk and change something that the slightest hint of a perceived problem, and if they would just leave it alone, it would go away. It’s a very very simple process

I also personally don’t understand anyone that “struggles” on testosterone. Did you struggle when you were younger and had good testosterone levels? If you didn’t then why are you struggling now? If it is done correctly you should not struggle now any different than you struggled when you were younger with more optimal levels. A lot of the struggles men have is due to miss information on what testosterone does and what it doesn’t do as well as their own individual expectations. Many men also will not give testosterone time to work, especially when they first start. The body simply has to go through an acclimation process, and most men can’t deal with some minor issues that may occur initially that go away with time. They want to knee-jerk and change something that the slightest hint of a perceived problem, and if they would just leave it alone, it would go away. It’s a very very simple process

I get what you’re saying. But why was the testosterone low in the first place. in some instances the body is lowering the hormone as a protective measure. So adding the t back in that the body wanted low adds more fuel to the fire. Some times if the root cause isn’t addressed I believe people can truly struggle. Also add in the shutdown of natural production and what the testicles produce when they are functional

 

I get what you’re saying. But why was the testosterone low in the first place. in some instances the body is lowering the hormone as a protective measure. So adding the t back in that the body wanted low adds more fuel to the fire. Some times if the root cause isn’t addressed I believe people can truly struggle. Also add in the shutdown of natural production and what the testicles produce when they are functional

These are great points. Finding the root cause is always preferable to starting supplementation.

Also, nothing reproduces the natural endogenous production of testosterone. Some people have difficulty with adding it exogenously. That’s why forums like these exist.

 

I get what you’re saying. But why was the testosterone low in the first place. in some instances the body is lowering the hormone as a protective measure. So adding the t back in that the body wanted low adds more fuel to the fire. Some times if the root cause isn’t addressed I believe people can truly struggle. Also add in the shutdown of natural production and what the testicles produce when they are functional

Do you really believe what you just wrote? That the body actually lowers it as a protective measure? Give us one instance where that occurs naturally. You are writing a typical forum response that is not based on physiology or the medical literature. This is the exact problem with forums. The root cause should always be addressed first before ever initiating testosterone but unfortunately most men are looking for an easy way. Exercising consistently and cleaning up one's diet is difficult for a lot of men because it takes hard work. I don't see anyone struggle. Let me repeat, I don't see anyone struggle. Hormone optimization is a very simple process. It works in young and old and the same in men and women. It is simply raising levels of your hormones with a bio identical equivalent so that you maximize the beneficial effects of the hormone along with resolving any symptoms related to a hormone insufficiency. When you raise levels of a hormone to an optimal level and you were treating symptoms of an insufficiency in an individual and you raise levels to overcome that insufficiency any symptoms related to the hormone will improve and any symptoms left over had nothing to do with the hormone. Men tend to think that it should fix everything and it does not. Me tend to think that being on testosterone and other hormones makes them function perfectly every day of every week of every month of every year and that is not how it works. We are still human and we all still have problems that are not related to hormones. Hormone optimization is never adding "fuel to the fire" and nobody should "struggle".

 

Do you really believe what you just wrote? That the body actually lowers it as a protective measure? Give us one instance where that occurs naturally. You are writing a typical forum response that is not based on physiology or the medical literature. This is the exact problem with forums. The root cause should always be addressed first before ever initiating testosterone but unfortunately most men are looking for an easy way. Exercising consistently and cleaning up one's diet is difficult for a lot of men because it takes hard work. I don't see anyone struggle. Let me repeat, I don't see anyone struggle. Hormone optimization is a very simple process. It works in young and old and the same in men and women. It is simply raising levels of your hormones with a bio identical equivalent so that you maximize the beneficial effects of the hormone along with resolving any symptoms related to a hormone insufficiency. When you raise levels of a hormone to an optimal level and you were treating symptoms of an insufficiency in an individual and you raise levels to overcome that insufficiency any symptoms related to the hormone will improve and any symptoms left over had nothing to do with the hormone. Men tend to think that it should fix everything and it does not. Me tend to think that being on testosterone and other hormones makes them function perfectly every day of every week of every month of every year and that is not how it works. We are still human and we all still have problems that are not related to hormones. Hormone optimization is never adding "fuel to the fire" and nobody should "struggle".

You are correct. No one "should" struggle. Unfortunately, people do.

 

This is the exact problem with forums.

Why do you keep coming back? Why do they keep sucking you back in?

The voices won't stop?