What if what you knew about E in the trough is all wrong...

Vince Carter · Jan 11, 2019

What if you needed to monitor E2, in your PEAK, post injection. What if your trough LC/MS/MS was 40 and you thought that number was high and have reliable elevated E symptoms, when in reality your E was...50, 60, or twice that number after your injection. What if that's where your E problems lie. The trough being a small snapshot of your lowest point, but your E is elevated in a longer arc than it ever declines and bottoms out (I didn't say crashed Estrogen) at your trough.

Vince · Jan 11, 2019

You could have just inject everyday and not even think about it

Vince Carter · Jan 11, 2019

You have a peak and trough even on daily shots Vince, you know that you do not and cannot have numbers that stable. You yourself test in your trough, you could just test 8 hrs later if you even believed that, but you don't test that way.

Nelson Vergel · Jan 11, 2019

THE TOP 18 THINGS YOU DID NOT KNOW ABOUT ESTRADIOL'S ROLE IN MEN'S HEALTH

Systemlord · Jan 11, 2019

Nelson has stated before that what you feel is likely somewhere in the middle of the bell curve rather than at the top or bottom.

MarcoFL · Jan 12, 2019

Vince, I agree with you and just went to 50mg T 3X per week and do not really notice much of any change now vs the once per week I had major swing. I am high SHBG at 60 TT 1200 free-direct T of 22. My understanding is you want to target of 40-50:1 ratio? if that is the case I will need to us a AI. I have use in past and think i will again now to achieve that ratio. I am on thyroid medication 1gr of NDT and 25mcg 2X of T3 per day because of high RT3 which the added T3 has impacted higher SHBG.

captain · Jan 12, 2019

I think we already know that its likely all byproducts from T stay elevated longer than the T does. This is where smaller doses may allow the byproducts to stay in check. This is clear in the HCG study where the dose of 500 will overlap the next giving constant stimulation keeping all byproduct higher. A 100 dose will not overlap the next giving a break is stimulation allowing levels to rise and fall.

DragonBits · Jan 12, 2019

Nelson Vergel said:
THE TOP 18 THINGS YOU DID NOT KNOW ABOUT ESTRADIOL'S ROLE IN MEN'S HEALTH

I feel there has to be a lot of variants and variability from person to person in their estrogen receptors, for that matter all hormone receptors.

So two person can react differently to the same levels of estrogen, testosterone, whatever. And depending on other variables (diet, supplements, age, etc) one person can react differently to the same level of hormones.

One reason I think this, when off of TRT my E2 is below 5 pg/ml, sure it likely had a negative effect, but it doesn't seem to be hugely negative. I went 17 years with a total T of about 370 and whenever I measured E2 it was below 5.

So the debate isn't that E2 is important, most everyone can agree on that, it's how much E2 is needed and is too much E2 a negative? And does your body compensate in any way when E2 is low or high and is it the same for everyone?

Nelson Vergel · Jan 12, 2019

"So the debate isn't that E2 is important, most everyone can agree on that, it's how much E2 is needed and is too much E2 a negative? And does your body compensate in any way when E2 is low or high and is it the same for everyone? "

No one has actually studied men on TRT and giving them an estradiol cream to see what happens when E2 goes up.

MarcoFL · Jan 12, 2019

Nelson Vergel said:
"So the debate isn't that E2 is important, most everyone can agree on that, it's how much E2 is needed and is too much E2 a negative? And does your body compensate in any way when E2 is low or high and is it the same for everyone? "

No one has actually studied men on TRT and giving them an estradiol cream to see what happens when E2 goes up.

So what is the target T to E ratio to shoot for? I tried searching the site but could not find that.