Would I benefit from a different type of T?

Vvs1

Active Member
Natural labs are attached.

I’m high SHBG and lower e2. E2 in these labs is 16, but also have 19.

I have been on HCG along with either Empowers T Cyp or T cream and results are disappointing. Looking for something that maybe will boost my e2 up.

Maybe Propionate, Sustanon, or Pfizer’s Depo-T?

840DB20A-0BA5-4289-B430-187942A7F8B2.jpeg
 

DorianGray

Active Member
A couple questions to get a better picture:

1. What is your age?
2. How long have you been on current TRT program?
3. Cream or injection now?
4. Dosages of HCG and of T?
5. What are you disappointed about past and current treatments?
 

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
Natural labs are attached.

I’m high SHBG and lower e2. E2 in these labs is 16, but also have 19.

I have been on HCG along with either Empowers T Cyp or T cream and results are disappointing. Looking for something that maybe will boost my e2 up.

Maybe Propionate, Sustanon, or Pfizer’s Depo-T?

View attachment 11176
When you say the results are disappointing, do you mean how you feel or you don't like the numbers but you feel great?

"Natural labs are attached"
what does that mean? Natural labs I would have guessed were labs without any TRT, but your blood test looks like you are either on TRT or don't need it. Just an odd statement you made.

I don't see a point to raising E2 just because you want a different number, but the surefire way to raise E2 is to raise total T though higher levels of exogenous T.

My E2 is similar percentage (percentage of total T) as yours, my ratio goes up a bit when I combine Nebido with T cream. Combining testosterone cyp, or just pure cream, but get your total T to 800-1000 and your E2 will follow it up. You could use clomid which would also likely raise your E2, but you would likely feel worse. Lastly, you could supplement E2 directly assuming you can find a prescription for E2 when you don't seem to need it.
 

Vvs1

Active Member
A couple questions to get a better picture:

1. What is your age?
2. How long have you been on current TRT program?
3. Cream or injection now?
4. Dosages of HCG and of T?
5. What are you disappointed about past and current treatments?
-30
-Natesto in December-February. Switched to HCG mono in April. Added T Cyp for a month. Ran out of Cyp and switched to cream+HCG, or sometimes cream only.
-Right now I’m on HCG only as I’m running out of test and looking for a suggestion that might suit high shbg and low e2 according to labs.
-Disappointed about HSDD, usually don’t have morning wood, dull or low orgasm. I do have improvements, including a great one 2 weeks ago, but it doesn’t last.
 

Vvs1

Active Member
When you say the results are disappointing, do you mean how you feel or you don't like the numbers but you feel great?

"Natural labs are attached"
what does that mean? Natural labs I would have guessed were labs without any TRT, but your blood test looks like you are either on TRT or don't need it. Just an odd statement you made.

I don't see a point to raising E2 just because you want a different number, but the surefire way to raise E2 is to raise total T though higher levels of exogenous T.

My E2 is similar percentage (percentage of total T) as yours, my ratio goes up a bit when I combine Nebido with T cream. Combining testosterone cyp, or just pure cream, but get your total T to 800-1000 and your E2 will follow it up. You could use clomid which would also likely raise your E2, but you would likely feel worse. Lastly, you could supplement E2 directly assuming you can find a prescription for E2 when you don't seem to need it.
Yes, natural labs are no TRT/clomid/HCG, etc.

I’m still not confident in sexual situations on TRT or HCG and seems like when I take a PDE-5 inhibitor, which supposedly lowers e2, I’ll have no interest in sex and joints will be clicking for a while.

I have asked Defy for a prescription of E2 and they said it was not a good idea.
 

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
Yes, natural labs are no TRT/clomid/HCG, etc.

I’m still not confident in sexual situations on TRT or HCG and seems like when I take a PDE-5 inhibitor, which supposedly lowers e2, I’ll have no interest in sex and joints will be clicking for a while.

I have asked Defy for a prescription of E2 and they said it was not a good idea.
Your natural levels of 637 total T are pretty healthy, I wouldn't have suggested TRT.

Did you have labs from when you were on anything? HCG, testos cyp, have you ever tested SHBG, because your post suggests you suspect high SHBG because of your other levels.

The only easy way to raise E2 is to raise total T. I have doubts a higher E2 will make you more confident in sexual situations, but it would be interesting to see what if any effect that would have had.

Outside of that, I am out of options, good luck.
 

Robotics

Active Member
-30
-Natesto in December-February. Switched to HCG mono in April. Added T Cyp for a month. Ran out of Cyp and switched to cream+HCG, or sometimes cream only.
-Right now I’m on HCG only as I’m running out of test and looking for a suggestion that might suit high shbg and low e2 according to labs.
-Disappointed about HSDD, usually don’t have morning wood, dull or low orgasm. I do have improvements, including a great one 2 weeks ago, but it doesn’t last.
How was Natesto? I guess not satisfactory since you are low e2, and it didnt raise it due to its short half life? did you feel good on it in any sense?
 

Vvs1

Active Member
How was Natesto? I guess not satisfactory since you are low e2, and it didnt raise it due to its short half life? did you feel good on it in any sense?
It didn’t benefit me. I remember being more social while on it than nothing at all, but that’s about it.

It’s expensive anyway. Believe Empower has a similar nasal gel.
 

slicktop

Active Member
I have asked Defy for a prescription of E2 and they said it was not a good idea.
So what is their recommendation for medication and frequency right now? It seems like you've changed up your protocol quite a bit more than recommended in a short amount of time. Logically working backwards from what guys do that want to LOWER their E2, you may want to do a higher, less frequent dose.
 

Vvs1

Active Member
Your natural levels of 637 total T are pretty healthy, I wouldn't have suggested TRT.

Did you have labs from when you were on anything? HCG, testos cyp, have you ever tested SHBG, because your post suggests you suspect high SHBG because of your other levels.

The only easy way to raise E2 is to raise total T. I have doubts a higher E2 will make you more confident in sexual situations, but it would be interesting to see what if any effect that would have had.

Outside of that, I am out of options, good luck.
From my research, estrogen regulates the pelvic floor ligaments. When I notice huge improvements in libido and orgasm, I’ll notice much of it comes from pelvic floor.
 

Vvs1

Active Member
So what is their recommendation for medication and frequency right now? It seems like you've changed up your protocol quite a bit more than recommended in a short amount of time. Logically working backwards from what guys do that want to LOWER their E2, you may want to do a higher, less frequent dose.
They suggested 6 clicks of the T cream with HCG. I’m always switching up the protocol depending on positive/negative short term results. It’s almost too expensive to stay with Defy when already these issues have caused detrimental effects of every part of life. It’s nonstop money out the door/none coming in and the emotional toll.
 

MNguy

New Member
I’m making more progress than any consistent dosage
Are you saying you make more progress with an inconsistent protocol than with a steady dose? That’s interesting because I notice that when I change my protocol I feel really good for about a week, then that feeling slips away and I feel like crap again, until my next protocol change. It seems I feel better when my hormones are in flux. I’ve contemplated altering doses every other week to see how I’d feel. Had anyone tried a protocol like this?
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
Are you saying you make more progress with an inconsistent protocol than with a steady dose? That’s interesting because I notice that when I change my protocol I feel really good for about a week, then that feeling slips away and I feel like crap again, until my next protocol change. It seems I feel better when my hormones are in flux. I’ve contemplated altering doses every other week to see how I’d feel. Had anyone tried a protocol like this?
It's a common observation—that changes in protocols can trigger a honeymoon period with improved results. I think I read about one doctor who tried to codify it into an official protocol, with every two weeks of low-dose TRT followed by two weeks of high-dose TRT, or something like that.

My preference is to better imitate natural hormonal variations, which occur within each day. Subjectively it doesn't have the same zing as those large, sudden changes in protocol. But at least the benefits don't go away after a week.
 

MNguy

New Member
It's a common observation—that changes in protocols can trigger a honeymoon period with improved results. I think I read about one doctor who tried to codify it into an official protocol, with every two weeks of low-dose TRT followed by two weeks of high-dose TRT, or something like that.

My preference is to better imitate natural hormonal variations, which occur within each day. Subjectively it doesn't have the same zing as those large, sudden changes in protocol. But at least the benefits don't go away after a week.
Are you on the cream then?
 

captain_j

New Member
Are you saying you make more progress with an inconsistent protocol than with a steady dose? That’s interesting because I notice that when I change my protocol I feel really good for about a week, then that feeling slips away and I feel like crap again, until my next protocol change. It seems I feel better when my hormones are in flux. I’ve contemplated altering doses every other week to see how I’d feel. Had anyone tried a protocol like this?
I've been wanting to try something like this myself, because I notice the same thing. I keep a log every day of what I inject/take, and have been for the whole year+ that I've been on TRT. I think the longest period of time I stayed steady with a protocol was 1 month. I also have very low SHBG post-TRT (don't know what it was prior, did not test for it). I feel like we're always just chasing rainbows trying to find that perfect protocol that doesn't exist. I do like the idea of trying to mimic the daily natural fluctuations, but haven't committed to that yet.
 
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