When will blood levels stabilize on prop EOD?

WayneP

New Member
I want to do a blood test but unsure as to when blood levels will stabilize after starting 40mg test prop EOD.

Does anyone know?
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
Propionate has a nominal half-life of 0.8 days. This means things will stabilize within a week. But "stabilize" in this case means only that the profile of serum testosterone in each injection interval is the same. The profile itself varies dramatically, going from a very low pre-injection trough to quite a high level in the few hours after each injection. It's not a protocol I'd recommend, as I found that even daily propionate can cause excessive swings in serum testosterone. Suppose you hit a peak of 1,500 ng/dL three hours after an injection. Then your pre-injection trough 45 hours later is likely to be under 300 ng/dL. This is certainly not optimal.

Note also that if you have a longer testosterone ester still in your system then you must wait for it to clear before your results will reflect only the propionate.
 

Weasel

Member
I've done peak and trough labs on Prop EOD. With my SHBG hovering around 25-30 trough was 403 (e2 7) and peak was 1450 (e2 22). Contrary to popular belief by most, This is the best protocol I've found for myself.

I believe this protocol has worked so well for me because it cut my e2 in half vs cypionate.
 

Willyt

Active Member
I've done peak and trough labs on Prop EOD. With my SHBG hovering around 25-30 trough was 403 (e2 7) and peak was 1450 (e2 22). Contrary to popular belief by most, This is the best protocol I've found for myself.

I believe this protocol has worked so well for me because it cut my e2 in half vs cypionate.
@Weasel - Did you notice less water retention on Prop versus Cypionate?
 

Willyt

Active Member
Propionate has a nominal half-life of 0.8 days. This means things will stabilize within a week. But "stabilize" in this case means only that the profile of serum testosterone in each injection interval is the same. The profile itself varies dramatically, going from a very low pre-injection trough to quite a high level in the few hours after each injection. It's not a protocol I'd recommend, as I found that even daily propionate can cause excessive swings in serum testosterone. Suppose you hit a peak of 1,500 ng/dL three hours after an injection. Then your pre-injection trough 45 hours later is likely to be under 300 ng/dL. This is certainly not optimal.
@Cataceous - what would be the peak-to-trough swing that you would see on daily protocol for Prop versus EOD?
 

WayneP

New Member
@Cataceous yes on paper it sounds like a bad protocol but i've seen many anecdotes of people they felt the best on prop eod. thx for the info

I've done peak and trough labs on Prop EOD. With my SHBG hovering around 25-30 trough was 403 (e2 7) and peak was 1450 (e2 22). Contrary to popular belief by most, This is the best protocol I've found for myself.

I believe this protocol has worked so well for me because it cut my e2 in half vs cypionate.

what was your dose on prop eod please
 

Willyt

Active Member
@Cataceous were those troughs on daily prop low enough to maintain your internal production similar to what we have discussed regarding Natesto? Also, isn’t your table pretty close to the elusive diurnal rhythm that some of us are looking for?

@WayneP - You got me thinking about Prop EOD versus daily.
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
@Cataceous were those troughs on daily prop low enough to maintain your internal production similar to what we have discussed regarding Natesto? Also, isn’t your table pretty close to the elusive diurnal rhythm that some of us are looking for?
...
I saw no evidence of endogenous production of testosterone; it's still too much exogenous testosterone for too long. Recently at exceedingly low doses (2.8 mg TE, 2.1 mg TP daily) I also saw no evidence of endogenous production, and this was with GnRH too.

Regarding the table with my data, only the first row might be considered physiological; a 25% variation about the mean is typical for young men. The other data points are averaging about double this. Subjectively the protocols did not feel as good as the stable levels with EOD enanthate. But I now find a TP/TE blend tuned for ~23% variation about the mean is superior to either pure TE or pure TP.

Of course this could be purely an individual thing. But to me it appears that the better I'm able to mimic normal physiology, the better I do.
 

Willyt

Active Member
I saw no evidence of endogenous production of testosterone; it's still too much exogenous testosterone for too long. Recently at exceedingly low doses (2.8 mg TE, 2.1 mg TP daily) I also saw no evidence of endogenous production, and this was with GnRH too.

Regarding the table with my data, only the first row might be considered physiological; a 25% variation about the mean is typical for young men. The other data points are averaging about double this. Subjectively the protocols did not feel as good as the stable levels with EOD enanthate. But I now find a TP/TE blend tuned for ~23% variation about the mean is superior to either pure TE or pure TP.

Of course this could be purely an individual thing. But to me it appears that the better I'm able to mimic normal physiology, the better I do.
Too bad the current Empower Cyp/TP blend has 4:1 ratio. Doesn’t seem like it would make much of a difference.
 

madman

Member
@Cataceous were those troughs on daily prop low enough to maintain your internal production similar to what we have discussed regarding Natesto? Also, isn’t your table pretty close to the elusive diurnal rhythm that some of us are looking for?

@WayneP - You got me thinking about Prop EOD versus daily.




post#2
 

hardrlz

Member
Sorry for the side question but how long does it take you to notice the positive effects on libido/energy/strength on daily propionate , do you immediately feel something when you hit the peak or did it take time ?
 

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