Trying to do a HPTA restart with my doc…29 days in my total T is only 18:(

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JCUSN

Member
My labs are attached.

Total T is only 18, and free T is only .3!!!

Okay have no libido whatsoever. My dick gets hard, but I have no interest in using it, and I don’t orgasm at all.

I was on TRT for nearly 2 years, and tried to come off recently. I stopped my test Cypionate injections 29 days before this lab work was done.

After stopping, I didn’t HCG 1000iu and HMG 75iu every other day for two weeks. Then I stopped those injections, and began taking my SERM (toremifene) at 60mg daily.

Now my total T is only 18 and free T is .3. Is my SERM not effective and not working at all, or do I just need to give things more time?

My Torem came from a real online pharmacy, and it’s made by Orion Pharma. They’re a real pharma company that makes Torem (one of the few).
 

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readalot

Member
I was on TRT for nearly 2 years, and tried to come off recently. I stopped my test Cypionate injections 29 days before this lab work was done.
Baseline labs prior to TRT (TT, SHBG, etc)? Were you diagnosed primary or secondary? Were your testicles functioning prior to TRT? Kinda important to know.
 

JCUSN

Member
That sucks. You are going to need your nuts to crank out a fairly high TT, in order to have a reasonable FT (due to your high SHBG).

Yes unfortunately. That’s why I started TRT in the first place…my total T was fine, but free T was low.

Baseline labs prior to TRT (TT, SHBG, etc)? Were you diagnosed primary or secondary? Were your testicles functioning prior to TRT? Kinda important to know.

I started TRT because of having high SHBG dragging down my Free T. Prior to TRT my levels were: total T ~580, estradiol 22, free T 5.1, and SHBG 57.
 

readalot

Member
Yes unfortunately. That’s why I started TRT in the first place…my total T was fine, but free T was low.



I started TRT because of having high SHBG dragging down my Free T. Prior to TRT my levels were: total T ~580, estradiol 22, free T 5.1, and SHBG 57.
Thanks, so your testicles were working fine and you started TRT with free T somewhere between most likely 9-17 ng/dl (Vermeulen vs Tru-T calculators). Clinically it's not clear you were actually hypogonadal but that's water under the bridge. Call it "lifestyle TRT" or something like that.

You didn't mention what assay or reference range on your fT number above or units.

I've been down to 87 ng/dl (no fun at all). Hang in there!
 

JCUSN

Member
Thanks, so your testicles were working fine and you started TRT with free T somewhere between most likely 9-17 ng/dl (Vermeulen vs Tru-T calculators). Clinically it's not clear you were actually hypogonadal but that's water under the bridge. Call it "lifestyle TRT" or something like that.

You didn't mention what assay or reference range on your fT number above or units.

I've been down to 87 ng/dl (no fun at all). Hang in there!
Range for free t was 8.7 - 25.1.

Is it totally normal due my libido to be SO bad right now?? Honestly, the thought of sex actually turns me OFF. Is that expected with levels like this right now?

My E2 only just now came back and it says <2.5! Range is 8-35.

This is so bad :(
 

readalot

Member
Range for free t was 8.7 - 25.1.

Is it totally normal due my libido to be SO bad right now?? Honestly, the thought of sex actually turns me OFF. Is that expected with levels like this right now?

My E2 only just now came back and it says <2.5! Range is 8-35.

This is so bad :(
That was my experience also. I'm in same boat as you. Unclear if I will be able to restart my natural T production. Power PCT, SERMS, Natesto, lots of options you can explore with the resources here.
 

JCUSN

Member
That was my experience also. I'm in same boat as you. Unclear if I will be able to restart my natural T production. Power PCT, SERMS, Natesto, lots of options you can explore with the resources here.

Did you come off of TRT for some reason? Did you not even feel ok while on TRT?
 

bixt

Well-Known Member
Range for free t was 8.7 - 25.1.

Is it totally normal due my libido to be SO bad right now?? Honestly, the thought of sex actually turns me OFF. Is that expected with levels like this right now?

My E2 only just now came back and it says <2.5! Range is 8-35.

This is so bad :(


Proviron 25mg is your friend....if you can get it that is. Hardly suppressive at that dose. At worst, it may for example extend your recovery from 16 weeks to 20 weeks. But you would have a far better quality of life for those 20 weeks.
 

JCUSN

Member
Just got retested yesterday and I already have the results:

Total T: 103 ng/dL
LH: 2.2
FSH: 2.0
Estradiol: <15

Yikes. These labs were taken 39 days after last test-cyp injection.
 

JCUSN

Member
Proviron 25mg is your friend....if you can get it that is. Hardly suppressive at that dose. At worst, it may for example extend your recovery from 16 weeks to 20 weeks. But you would have a far better quality of life for those 20 weeks.

I’d love to try, but I have no idea how to get ahold of that.
 

Cataceous

Super Moderator
Just got retested yesterday and I already have the results:

Total T: 103 ng/dL
LH: 2.2
FSH: 2.0
Estradiol: <15

Yikes. These labs were taken 39 days after last test-cyp injection.
Actually not too bad for less than six weeks. Figure two to three weeks just to get the testosterone cypionate out of your system. Give it time and see what happens.

Prior to starting TRT, my SHBG was already 52-62 on multiple tests.
That sucks. You are going to need your nuts to crank out a fairly high TT, in order to have a reasonable FT (due to your high SHBG).
It works a little differently. Testosterone production drives free testosterone. Free testosterone is primarily what gives us the benefits. Total testosterone just goes along for the ride and is not as important of a parameter. If SHBG is high then total testosterone is high. If SHBG is low then total testosterone is low. High SHBG does not cause hypogonadism. Hypogonadism is caused by insufficient testosterone production. In secondary hypogonadism this typically stems from signaling malfunctions in the pituitary or the hypothalamus.
 

readalot

Member
Did you come off of TRT for some reason? Did you not even feel ok while on TRT?
Felt pretty good till I ran into some issues I couldn't ignore. I'm now using process of elimination to see if I can correct.

About 2 years into TRT+ I had an epidode of atrial fibrillation. I'm not throwing it blindly at the feet of T. ~3.7 years into TRT my echo came back with grade 1 diastolic dysfunction (mild HFpEF). I've got other autoimmune/thyroid issues which started me off on the hunch that anabolic therapy may help. So again I am not convinced it's a single thing and most likely a combination. Long story and I ended up with exercise intolerance which for me is an issue since before I was in top 1% age adjusted I estimate. Well, sometimes you try to fly too close to the sun :).

Why are you coming off?
 

JCUSN

Member
Felt pretty good till I ran into some issues I couldn't ignore. I'm now using process of elimination to see if I can correct.

About 2 years into TRT+ I had an epidode of atrial fibrillation. I'm not throwing it blindly at the feet of T. ~3.7 years into TRT my echo came back with grade 1 diastolic dysfunction (mild HFpEF). I've got other autoimmune/thyroid issues which started me off on the hunch that anabolic therapy may help. So again I am not convinced it's a single thing and most likely a combination. Long story and I ended up with exercise intolerance which for me is an issue since before I was in top 1% age adjusted I estimate. Well, sometimes you try to fly too close to the sun :).

Why are you coming off?

Atrial fib can def be pretty scary. I’ve never had it, but my dad suffers from it and it really really drags him down. I’m sorry to hear that. What evidence have you ever seen or read that TRT could have contributed to your condition? Most the studies I have read show TRT doesn’t pose any threat to the heart. In fact, I think I remember it has been shown to do the opposite in many people.

I stopped due to fertility. I still want to have children, and from what I know, that’s not really possible on TRT.
 

readalot

Member
What evidence have you ever seen or read that TRT could have contributed to your condition? Most the studies I have read show TRT doesn’t pose any threat to the heart.
Serum T level vs morbidity is u-shaped like most hormones and the optimum level is individual dependent. Maybe I just have bad luck. Lots of info under my name here and on T-Nation. More applicable to TRT+/TOT than TRT. Lots of info suggest too low or too high can be a problem. Good luck and best wishes on your recovery!
 
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