Solution to infamous high HCT low ferritin dilemma

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Gman86

Member
Here’s an interview with Dr. Morley Robbins that addresses the infamous high HCT low ferritin dilemma that many men face on HRT. Looks like we finally have an answer in regards to how to handle it. Spoiler alert, it’s to donate blood, as needed, to keep serum iron, HGB and HCT levels within a healthy range, and to not worry about low serum ferritin levels like we do. Enjoy.

 
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Gman86

Member
Thanks for the much needed spoiler. Why are a lot of these videos so damn long?

Seriously right? It’s honestly worth the 2 hours tho. He goes over so much info in this vid. What I like about Morley tho is it’s all information that most people have never heard before, and can really offer real value to most people’s lives.
 

M.J

Active Member
But when my ferritin went down, I had serious PB issues and couldn’t sleep. He is saying to not worry about low ferritin ?
It was really scary I don’t want to have low ferritin.
 

Gman86

Member
But when my ferritin went down, I had serious PB issues and couldn’t sleep. He is saying to not worry about low ferritin ?
It was really scary I don’t want to have low ferritin.

Interesting. What kind of BP issues? How low did ferritin get? And what were ur serum iron and HCT/ HGB levels at the time?

Also, why did ur ferritin go so low?

Morley recommends keeping ferritin between 20-30
 
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M.J

Active Member
Interesting. What kind of BP issues? How low did ferritin get? And what were ur serum iron and HCT/ HGB levels at the time?

Also, why did ur ferritin go so low?

Morley recommends keeping ferritin between 20-30
My ferritin went around 9 or 8. One of the MAIN issues I had was waking up during sleep, I simply couldn’t sleep.

after doing tests I saw my ferritin low and iron I think still in Normal range.

I was doing blood test every week or at least twice monthly for like 8 month. Just checking my lab measurements.
And after donating blood for one time all this started.

after supplementing iron I felt great improvement in o e week and after two month I slept like a baby.

I wrote a thread about it.

the interesting thing is a friend called me once complaining that he couldn’t sleep. I told him do you lose blood and how is your ferritin. He had colon issues and was losing blood after checking ferritin level it was low!!

I tild him I had similar issue just take vitamin c and iron + lysin. One month later he was back to normal.

I am 100% sure ferritin was the reason in both my case and my friend inability to have agood night sleep was really scary. Waking up with high BP was scary also.
 

Gman86

Member
My ferritin went around 9 or 8. One of the MAIN issues I had was waking up during sleep, I simply couldn’t sleep.

after doing tests I saw my ferritin low and iron I think still in Normal range.

I was doing blood test every week or at least twice monthly for like 8 month. Just checking my lab measurements.
And after donating blood for one time all this started.

after supplementing iron I felt great improvement in o e week and after two month I slept like a baby.

I wrote a thread about it.

the interesting thing is a friend called me once complaining that he couldn’t sleep. I told him do you lose blood and how is your ferritin. He had colon issues and was losing blood after checking ferritin level it was low!!

I tild him I had similar issue just take vitamin c and iron + lysin. One month later he was back to normal.

I am 100% sure ferritin was the reason in both my case and my friend inability to have agood night sleep was really scary. Waking up with high BP was scary also.

I love opposing ideas. It’s how we learn and grown. But life is always about balance, and the answers to everything usually always lies in balance between opposing ideas. Ferritin takes a long time to build up. It’s something that can be depleted very quickly, but takes a long time to build back up. So i think u might accidentally be backing up Morley’s claims. If ur ferritin was 8-9, and u were supplementing and started feeling better after one week, where do u think ur ferritin was? I would say I’m the teens at absolute best. And after 2 months I would say best case scenario ur ferritin was most likely in the 20’s. Which is exactly where Morley recommends. Same with ur friend. Idk where his ferritin was prior to supplementing, but his could of been as tanked as urs. But even if his was higher than urs, after only a month of iron supplementation, I can’t imagine his ferritin level going up more than 10 points. So wherever his ferritin was before when he felt horrible, I would imagine his ferritin was only around 10 points higher when he felt better. Maybe he went from 10 to 20. Or 20 to 30. Or even 30-40. But most likely he was in the low range for ferritin, and still is, but is just at a slightly higher level that works for him better.

I also tanked my ferritin the same way basically. Getting blood work done too frequently, and doing a ton of labs each time. And then donated blood one time and ferritin came back very low. Low teens I believe.

Have u had ur ferritin level checked since feeling better? Any idea where ur friends ferritin level was/ is currently?

Are u still supplementing with iron?
 
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M.J

Active Member
I love opposing ideas. It’s how we learn and grown. But life is always about balance, and the answers to everything usually always lies in balance between opposing ideas. Ferritin takes a long time to build up. It’s something that can be depleted very quickly, but takes a long time to build back up. So i think u might accidentally be backing up Morley’s claims. If ur ferritin was 8-9, and u were supplementing and started feeling better after one week, where do u think ur ferritin was? I would say I’m the teens at absolute best. And after 2 months I would say best case scenario ur ferritin was most likely in the 20’s. Which is exactly where Morley recommends. Same with ur friend. Idk where his ferritin was prior to supplementing, but his could of been as tanked as urs. But even if his was higher than urs, after only a month of iron supplementation, I can’t imagine his ferritin level going up more than 10 points. So wherever his ferritin was before when he felt horrible, I would imagine his ferritin was only around 10 points higher when he felt better. Maybe he went from 10 to 20. Or 20 to 30. Or even 30-40. But most likely he was in the low range for ferritin, and still is, but is just at a slightly higher level that works for him better.

I also tanked my ferritin the same way basically. Getting blood work done too frequently, and doing a ton of labs each time. And then donated blood one time and ferritin came back very low. Low teens I believe.

Have u had ur ferritin level checked since feeling better? Any idea where ur friends ferritin level was/ is currently?

Are u still supplementing with iron?
Actually ur right, I have my lab somewhere in my email, but I think after supplementing I was in my 20’s when I felt really good. For my friend he was below 10 for sure or at 10.

I don’t supplement iron stopped that maybe few month back.

I am not sure what is the best level for ferritin but going low in ferritin was very serious for me.
 

Gman86

Member
Actually ur right, I have my lab somewhere in my email, but I think after supplementing I was in my 20’s when I felt really good. For my friend he was below 10 for sure or at 10.

I don’t supplement iron stopped that maybe few month back.

I am not sure what is the best level for ferritin but going low in ferritin was very serious for me.

And very serious for ur friend as well from the sounds of it. So maybe Morley is right and that we want to keep ferritin on the lower end, but obv not too low. Which makes sense, balance is key with everything. But if ferritin should ideally be in the 20-30 range, or somewhere a little above that, that would be huge for the guys on HRT that struggle with high HCT but lowish ferritin. Obv don’t know what guys with high HCT and ferritin below 20 should do, but hopefully this info can help guys out that think ferritin needs to be 50 or greater. I for one have always thought that ferritin should ideally be as close to 100 as u can get it. Not really too much over tho.
 

Gman86

Member
My sleep specialist wants me to keep my ferritin above 100 to avoid exacerbating my RLS. It is well known that a level below 50 can cause RLS. 20-30 is ridiculous.

Well known by who? And if u trust ur sleep specialists, I would just listen to him. But just remember, he specializes in sleep, and most likely has no clue how iron status In the body actually works. But if ur main concern is avoiding RLS, then I would just disregard the negative effects of iron toxicity, and continue focusing on avoiding RLS, like ur doing.

I think the opposite is true tho, I would say sacrificing ur overall health/ longevity just to avoid RLS is ridiculous. But to each their own.
 

lowtdunce

Member
My doc (rather well known in TRT) said the same thing. Keep the HCT somewhat normal with the donations and don't worry about ferritin. If anything, lower ferritin can help keep HCT in cehck assuming your other blood markers are fine. Now I get the concern for very low ferritin, so if you think you have symptoms and getting it higher fixes that, great. But if yours is somewhat low and no symptoms, why worry?
What I've been doing is donating regularly and I take iron for like the first week or two after donating just to help soften the blow of losing that much blood at once and then stop. My HCT bounces back pretty quick to a certain point and then slowly rises from there until a 2-3 months later when I usually donate again. Though I'm stretching it out longer by 1 week each time and keeping an eye on labs in the hopes I can cut to donating 4 times a year assuming 52-53 is a safe high point.
 

Gman86

Member
My doc (rather well known in TRT) said the same thing. Keep the HCT somewhat normal with the donations and don't worry about ferritin. If anything, lower ferritin can help keep HCT in cehck assuming your other blood markers are fine. Now I get the concern for very low ferritin, so if you think you have symptoms and getting it higher fixes that, great. But if yours is somewhat low and no symptoms, why worry?
What I've been doing is donating regularly and I take iron for like the first week or two after donating just to help soften the blow of losing that much blood at once and then stop. My HCT bounces back pretty quick to a certain point and then slowly rises from there until a 2-3 months later when I usually donate again. Though I'm stretching it out longer by 1 week each time and keeping an eye on labs in the hopes I can cut to donating 4 times a year assuming 52-53 is a safe high point.

What’s ur ferritin at?
 

Gman86

Member
Serum ferritin <50 in men is asking for all sorts of problems with arrhythmias, suboptimal thyroid function, loss of energy, weakness, lack of oxygen to name a few. Has this "specialist" heard of something call hypoferritinemia? HWA: Hypoferritinemia without anemia a hidden hematology disorder

Where’s the proof that ferritin less than 50 causes those symptoms u mentioned? The study considered low ferritin under 23 in men, which is basically backing up morley’s claims to keep it between 20-30. It mentions that ferritin below that can cause issues, but doesn’t go over whether or not the individuals in the study that had low ferritin had any negative symptoms or not. The study was just showing the percentage of men and women that have low ferritin with other normal iron markers. So this study doesn’t prove or show negative symptoms occurring from low ferritin at all.

All the symptoms u mentioned occur when u have low iron, from my understanding, not specifically low ferritin with normal RBC, HCT and serum iron levels. Let’s see a study showing patients being symptomatic with low ferritin and all other iron markers being within range.
 
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