Primo fo estrogen management!

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Jerajera

Member
Yes cream on scrotum is god send for me but the hairloss is really bad! Not experiencing that even from low dose primo

Was the problem with the cream only the hairloss, you felt great besides that?

If so do you feel as good on Primo? And what was your successful cream protocol if you don't mind saying?
 

Jerajera

Member
Just curious have you tried the orals or test p? I’m with you. The creams work best for me, and I feel the most natural on them.

I'm trying Test P right now at 10mg/day subQ. Libido is definitely up a lot as was my experience last time on 15mg/day IM.

Too early to draw conclusions because I'm only 10 days removed from a Test Cyp protocol that had reached steady state, so there's probably still ~35% of Cyp in my system, but I'll post labs and subjective results in 3-4 weeks.

Same question for you if you don't mind. What cream protocol was successful for you?
 

eli

Active Member
I'm trying Test P right now at 10mg/day subQ. Libido is definitely up a lot as was my experience last time on 15mg/day IM.

Too early to draw conclusions because I'm only 10 days removed from a Test Cyp protocol that had reached steady state, so there's probably still ~35% of Cyp in my system, but I'll post labs and subjective results in 3-4 weeks.

Same question for you if you don't mind. What cream protocol was successful for you?

Ehh you're still in the change of protocol honeymoon phase

Yea cream works wonders for me but i rather have my hair

Still dialing primo with my trt
 

Jerajera

Member
Ehh you're still in the change of protocol honeymoon phase

I don't know. I was on 15mg/day IM Prop for a few months and libido was raging the whole time. Never seemed to get habituated, but maybe it would happen eventually. I think the ups and down of shorter esters to some degree prevent habituation, but I could be wrong.

Good luck dialing in with Primo, it's a very interesting experiment. How do you feel about running it long term?
 

eli

Active Member
I don't know. I was on 15mg/day IM Prop for a few months and libido was raging the whole time. Never seemed to get habituated, but maybe it would happen eventually. I think the ups and down of shorter esters to some degree prevent habituation, but I could be wrong.

Good luck dialing in with Primo, it's a very interesting experiment. How do you feel about running it long term?

It's one of the safest PEDs, I ran DHB for a few months and didn't put a ding in my bloodwork

Are you low SHBG ?
 

Jerajera

Member
Are you low SHBG ?

My SHBG was 80 nmol/L pre-TRT and pretty quickly came down to ~40 nmol/L after I started.

I never felt good on injections except for an initial very short honeymoon phase. After that I actually felt worse than pre-TRT in a lot of ways. My depression and overthinking tendencies went away, which is amazing, but I felt completely flat; zero drive/motivation, no more dreams or plans for the future, excited about absolutely nothing...basically complete anhedonia and apathy/lethargy.

I tried twice/week, daily injections, anywhere from 100 to 200mg/week of Test Cyp. Never worked. Tried using a small dose of AI a few times but each time after an initial great 24-48 hours I started feeling worse. I went down to 0.0625mg 2x/week, so hard to do less. Maybe I needed more but last time I tried the AI my E2 sensitive was 22pg/mL and Free T 24ng/dL, so I doubt lowering my E2 even more would've been good, but who knows.

Only time I ever felt great was for a few days on cream. I was doing 2 clicks AM + 2 clicks PM (200mg/mL Empower HRT base) and feeling pretty wired and very aggressive, but also very confident and great libido. My DHT levels at trough however came back at 500ng/dL (not a typo). I only gave it 2 weeks to be fair but the insanely high DHT kind of scared me for long term use, so I dropped to 1 click AM + 1 click PM.

5 days or so after dropping the dose I experienced the most amazing 3 days of my entire life. Amazing sleep, genuine interest in things other than sex. Started reading books again, working out with enthusiasm instead of dragging myself through everything, etc...

Unfortunately, after that very short period of time I went back to feeling "meh...". My test results came back and even on just 1 clicks AM/PM my DHT was still 360ng/dL. At that point I was going to try applying to different parts of my body but I ran out of cream and changed my next prescription to Test Cyp again to try just 100mg/week in 2x/week injections.
Felt great for 2-3 weeks and then back to feeling like shit to the point where I don't even have the energy to work out.
 

eli

Active Member
My SHBG was 80 nmol/L pre-TRT and pretty quickly came down to ~40 nmol/L after I started.

I never felt good on injections except for an initial very short honeymoon phase. After that I actually felt worse than pre-TRT in a lot of ways. My depression and overthinking tendencies went away, which is amazing, but I felt completely flat; zero drive/motivation, no more dreams or plans for the future, excited about absolutely nothing...basically complete anhedonia and apathy/lethargy.

I tried twice/week, daily injections, anywhere from 100 to 200mg/week of Test Cyp. Never worked. Tried using a small dose of AI a few times but each time after an initial great 24-48 hours I started feeling worse. I went down to 0.0625mg 2x/week, so hard to do less. Maybe I needed more but last time I tried the AI my E2 sensitive was 22pg/mL and Free T 24ng/dL, so I doubt lowering my E2 even more would've been good, but who knows.

Only time I ever felt great was for a few days on cream. I was doing 2 clicks AM + 2 clicks PM (200mg/mL Empower HRT base) and feeling pretty wired and very aggressive, but also very confident and great libido. My DHT levels at trough however came back at 500ng/dL (not a typo). I only gave it 2 weeks to be fair but the insanely high DHT kind of scared me for long term use, so I dropped to 1 click AM + 1 click PM.

5 days or so after dropping the dose I experienced the most amazing 3 days of my entire life. Amazing sleep, genuine interest in things other than sex. Started reading books again, working out with enthusiasm instead of dragging myself through everything, etc...

Unfortunately, after that very short period of time I went back to feeling "meh...". My test results came back and even on just 1 clicks AM/PM my DHT was still 360ng/dL. At that point I was going to try applying to different parts of my body but I ran out of cream and changed my next prescription to Test Cyp again to try just 100mg/week in 2x/week injections.
Felt great for 2-3 weeks and then back to feeling like shit to the point where I don't even have the energy to work out.

You have to stick to a new regime for 6-7 weeks because there's a couple weeks of hell no matter what dose, protocol etc

I think your cream dosage was too high, try 25mg on scrotum twice a day for 6-7 weeks
 

Jerajera

Member
You have to stick to a new regime for 6-7 weeks because there's a couple weeks of hell no matter what dose, protocol etc

I think your cream dosage was too high, try 25mg on scrotum twice a day for 6-7 weeks

You know what? I'm going to try that. I've never tried a dose this low but maybe that's just what I need.

I've always thought it's likely there's a correlation between how much Test you naturally produced in your youth and how much your machine can handle before the wheels come apart, and to be honest I don't think I was ever a "high T" individual, even in my early 20's.

Maybe there's something to that. I've always thought TRT would work best for men who naturally had high Test when younger and just got older. I would guess those guys have much better success in general. Anecdotally in the people I personally know who are on TRT, that certainly seems to be the case.

This is true for me as well, only on Jatenzo @ 237 mg twice daily. The feeling great continues even after a year.

That's great, I'm really glad to hear that. I know you've struggled also for years, I'm glad you've found something that works.

I'm definitely considering Jatenzo in the future, thanks for the reminder
 

Systemlord

Member
How’s your libido and penis on jatenzo
My libido and erectile strength are getting better all the time, I get erections all throughout my sleep, wake up with erections every morning.

I believe the only thing holding back my erections from being 100 percent is my vitamin D levels (@ 37). I still have some minor symptoms that I had when I had a deficiency.

I've had to underdose the vitamin D to allow my body to adapt to the vitamin K, which through my research takes 3 months.
 
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solothesensei

New Member
I have the same experience as OP @eli. Mast, proviron, arimidex, aromasin all gave me nothing but trouble no matter how little I microdose.

Two things have worked: Primo and DHT itself
 

TescoValueJam

New Member
Very interesting man! I

Does DHT lower your estradiol?

Are you low SHBG?
Can I check, are you on test cream to scrotum and also taking a dht derivative? I'm in a similar situation, low shbg, just trying scrotal cream for two weeks now, still getting dialled in.
 
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