Nandrolone Experiences

[JimGainz]

Something is definitely going on. BP was just now 150/90. Took 5mcg thyroid med at 4pm. Seems that my BP is normal in the morning and then steadily climbs. My cardiologist buddy said record it 3x per day as I’m doing now for two weeks to see if this is consistent before considering options.

 

[BigTex]

If you look at this diagram, blood pressure is usually lowest at night while we sleep, it starts to rise about 7am and reaches it's highest by 6:30pm. This is why cardiologist want you to at least record a morning BP and and evening BP, Having a higher BP in the morning is not normal and has been found to be a risk of stroke. My cardiologist wanted me to get a daily average of the two readings and wanted it to be below 130/80.

 

[SteveCleves]

Thought this may be pertinent here

 

[tareload]

Thought this may be pertinent here

Tony looking like a deer in headlights here.

SSRI plus nandrolone...sign me up [haha].

 

[BigTex]

Hey, it Leo Longegity. You think Tony is guilty of his murder? I am sure Tony HUGE is just thinking about going after another female Asian teen.

 

[JimGainz]

If you look at this diagram, blood pressure is usually lowest at night while we sleep, it starts to rise about 7am and reaches it's highest by 6:30pm. This is why cardiologist want you to at least record a morning BP and and evening BP, Having a higher BP in the morning is not normal and has been found to be a risk of stroke. My cardiologist wanted me to get a daily average of the two readings and wanted it to be below 130/80.

View attachment 28950

Thanks for posting. This is consistent with what I have experience. For what it’s worth, I am showing my BP tracking taking 2-3 times per day over the last 2 weeks. All of the higher readings were late morning or afternoon.

My cardiologist buddy wants to put me on losartan starting at 50 mg but he’s not in the state so I’m going through my primary care physician but he says he normally doesn’t do anything until it reaches 140/90 consistently. I’m going to try to find another doctor or bring it up at my Defy consult.

 

[Warrior]

Ive used N for years, 80mg per week (40mg and 40mg) its not a miracle drug but helps with joint pain and training.
Just had labs done for some lipid issues and genetics.
Hemocrit was up a point, the real rockstar is Crestor which lowered my Triyglerides by 80 points.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Ive used N for years, 80mg per week (40mg and 40mg) its not a miracle drug but helps with joint pain and training.
Just had labs done for some lipid issues and genetics.
Hemocrit was up a point, the real rockstar is Crestor which lowered my Triyglerides by 80 points.

Wait so nandrolone messed up lipids?

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

not quite - the study showed a total of 10mg/kg per week done on rats. When you apply the human equivalent dosing as shown in the table below you divide the animal dose by 6.2 which equals 1.6 mg/kg. For a 220 /lb man thats only 160 mg / week not that far off from our TRT dosing.

However, there is a huge difference between animal studies and humans. Many rat studies simply do not carry over well because rats were designed to live 4 years max - whereas humans are obviously far more complex and live for decades. This was one of the reasons why the study on the PED Cardarine, which gave all rats cancer at all doses, is still used today years later in the bodybuilding and fitness community yet there has been no reported cancer to my knowledge from that - and I am on about half a dozen forums looking for that.

The info is just that - more to weigh in on the risk / reward of using androgens.

I have serious issues with joint pain that only nandrolone resolved - so maybe its time to get the BP monitor and check this daily like I did before and then make a decision.

A simple practice guide for dose conversion between animals and human

A simple practice guide for dose conversion between animals and human, Anroop B Nair, Shery Jacob

www.jbclinpharm.org

so at 60 mgs per week (nand) we/I should be good?

 

[Warrior]

Wait so nandrolone messed up lipids?

Nope, I have elevated triglycerides genetically.

 

[Gus80]

I’m currently on 200mg test and 125mg of nandrolone, along with 20mg of Oxandrolone sublingually pre workout 3x/ week, and 1mg of injectable progesterone before bed everyday. I would say energy is about the same on this protocol as it was on a nandrolone base. Mood is still really good. Libido is about the same. It’s weird, but there’s not much difference in everything now compared to using a nandrolone base, even tho these are two very different protocols. Only difference is that I feel like I’m noticing quite a few positive benefits from the progesterone, and most likely an increase in allopregnenolone. More calmness and being comfortable in social settings. Feeling more content with everything in my life. Just feeling more relaxed, but not lazy or anything. I really feel that progesterone might be a missing key for a lot of guys on TRT. But anyways, to answer ur question I don’t think I can say I notice much difference now compared to when I was using the nandrolone base, in regards to energy. Oh, u asked how the nandrolone only with low dose test compared to how I felt on test alone. But honestly I think about the same as when I was using test only as well. I know that’s a pretty boring answer lol, but I can’t think of my energy levels being any different on test only compared to a nandrolone base, or how they are currently

I started trt 7 years ago and never got good effects, higher anxiety, somewhat hypomanic, exaggeratedly high libido, worse sleep and gained weight in my chest and belly. I did a test with Deca Only and I felt a lot of peace, really calm, good training, good recovery. But after 3 months or so, my libido disappeared and so did the erections.

Did you manage to lose weight with this deca base protocol? Is your shbg low or normal?

 

[Gus80]

Ive used N for years, 80mg per week (40mg and 40mg) its not a miracle drug but helps with joint pain and training.
Just had labs done for some lipid issues and genetics.
Hemocrit was up a point, the real rockstar is Crestor which lowered my Triyglerides by 80 points.

Deca Only?

 

[Gus80]

Hey everyone. I wanted to get input on what people's experiences with nandrolone have been, whether prescribed in low doses for joint pain, cachexia or just simply wanting to put on size. I have been prescribed nandrolone for the past year for joint pain through the Baylor College of Medicine, which I have taken on and off at 50-100 mg per week.

What has everyone who has taken nandrolone experienced while taking it, both in terms of physical effects and mental effects? I have experienced depression, lethargy, short-term memory issues, joint pain relief, increased hunger, decreased libido, increased workout recovery, and potential estrogen management relief.

Here are some studies (animal models) discussing nandrolone's effect on neurotransmitters, and in particular, dopamine, and its potential impact on behavior, mood, learning, and memory.

The anabolic-androgenic steroid nandrolone decanoate affects the density of dopamine receptors in the male rat brain. - PubMed - NCBI (dopamine)
The Impact of Nandrolone Decanoate on the Central Nervous System (learning, behavior, and memory)
The anabolic androgenic steroid nandrolone decanoate affects mRNA expression of dopaminergic but not serotonergic receptors - ScienceDirect (dopamine)
Nandrolone abuse decreases anxiety and impairs memory in rats via central androgenic receptors (anxiety and memory)
Europe PMC (dopamine and serotonin)

I would really like to get some feedback on what everyone's experience has been.

@Nelson Vergel @Gman86 @Cataceous @Vince Carter @Jason Sypolt

In rats nandrolone decreases serotonin. Something that could be good for men with a tendency to schizophrenia or bipolarity, who experience high levels of serotonin/dopamine. It's my case, T makes me anxious, hypomanic and with sexual compulsion (high e2 increases serotonin which prevents sexual satiety). Deca Only made me feel like a Buddhist Zen master, and in 3 months I was practically celibate due to zero libido, lol.

As for those who have low serotonin / dopamine, tendency to depression, testosterone would be better.

I hypothesize that they are genetic issues, those already discovered and common in society are the mutations of the MAOa and Comt genes, which can be slow or fast, and regulate the excretion speed of dopamine, serotonin and estrogen. In addition to MTHFR which impairs methylation in general, impairing the excretion of toxins, as well as leaving too much unmethylated estrogen in the body. According to Dr Ben Lynch, methylated estrogen is beneficial, unmethylated estrogen is what causes the known estrogen dominance problems.

Extrapolating this data to my practical experience:
- slow comt, slow maoa and mthfr: tend to have more difficulty with testosterone and with high doses infrequently. They tend to get a lot of anxiety on traditional trt or cycling protocols as they build up dopamine, serotonin and estrogen. They tend to have low shbg, metabolic syndrome, fatty liver and high homocysteine, in these TRT will worsen insulin resistance by further decreasing shbg. They are the best candidates for Deca Only or Deca Base and microdoses of T. Or rather, ideally they are the perfect candidates for clomid, which would help them increase shbg and slim down and come out of hypogonadism. Keto diet, Carnivore Diet, Low Carb, Atkins, etc. They are also generally slow metabolizers of caffeine and benefit from B Complex Vitamins (which improve methylation, especially b2, b6, b9 and b12) and calming agents such as phosphatidylserine, theanine, niacin, taurine, which reduce high cortisol/glutamate/dopamine /serotonin generated by TRT.

- Fast Comt and Fast Maoa: Fast metabolizers, tend to have low dopamine, serotonin and estrogen. I believe they are the majority among bodybuilders, who support very high doses of several hormones combined, with few side effects. They have high sensitivity to insulin, which allows them to eat loads of carbohydrates, something potentiated by T. They feel the beneficial effects of TRT immediately but tend to have depression because they metabolize too quickly.

And in the middle there are those who do not have these mutations. Many of them will not have hypogonadism, even in old age.

 

[Gus80]

It definitely helps with joint injury recovery as shown by the Baylor poster presentations.
Nandrolone can add to the androgenic effects of testosterone. Higher doses than 100 mg per week (along with 100 mg of testosterone cypionate or enanthate) can cause water retention and higher blood pressure as well as increased hematocrit and decreased HDL. I used it for many years as it saved me from wasting away through the nightmare years of HIV. My first book (Built to Survive) was basically about nandrolone.

Here is a lot more information:

Best nandrolone posts on ExcelMale.com

Free Built to Survive Book File Attached

Nelson, what do you think of a very small dose of testosterone combined with a moderate dose of Deca for men who are low in shbg and very responsive to E2 fluctuations?

In your long experience with nandrolone, thinking about poor metabolizers, what would be the minimum effective dose?

Have you noticed any impact of nandrolone on insulin resistance/sensitivity?

Ps: I gave your book a quick read and am impressed with the richness of detail. It's fantastic to see that you had good results with nadrolone, as for years I looked for scientific articles about HRT with Deca and the target audience in most of them were people with HIV. Congratulations on the beautiful work!

 

[Gman86]

I started trt 7 years ago and never got good effects, higher anxiety, somewhat hypomanic, exaggeratedly high libido, worse sleep and gained weight in my chest and belly. I did a test with Deca Only and I felt a lot of peace, really calm, good training, good recovery. But after 3 months or so, my libido disappeared and so did the erections.

Did you manage to lose weight with this deca base protocol? Is your shbg low or normal?

I don’t remember losing weight with the deca based protocol. But weight loss wasn’t my goal. My goal is to always maintain body fat and try to slowly put on more muscle.

On test alone, test with deca, and a deca based protocol, my SHBG always runs in the 30’a usually. Ever since I started implementing DHT derivatives, like Oxandrolone and primobolan, my SHBG runs around 11 or so. Just had labs done 2 days ago, so we’ll see where my SHBG level is on my current protocol. Im not taking any Oxandrolone, and primo dose is only 75mg/ week. So hoping that my SHBG level has increased a bit. I prefer it around 20-35 in an ideal world

 

[Gman86]

@Gus80 So have u figured out a protocol that works for u? What’s ur current protocol?

have u tried using test and nandrolone together?

 

[Gus80]

@Gus80 So have u figured out a protocol that works for u? What’s ur current protocol?

have u tried using test and nandrolone together?

No. Still looking for a protocol that works well. Starting deca base with low testo, 4:1 as I saw colleagues reporting.

I've spent the last 3 months testing Clomid, but I get very irritated, then watch a video from the Anabolic Doc stating that clomid may not work properly in men who have previously tried TRT.

Starting next week I will be taking 25mg of Testo and 100mg of Deca. I'm a super-responder, I want to try to find the lowest effective dose. On Deca Only I had erection changes after 3 months without testosterone.

I haven't tested cream, gel or oral yet, which in theory would be the best for me due to the very short half-life. These are the options in case the base deca does not work.

 

[Gman86]

No. Still looking for a protocol that works well. Starting deca base with low testo, 4:1 as I saw colleagues reporting.

I've spent the last 3 months testing Clomid, but I get very irritated, then watch a video from the Anabolic Doc stating that clomid may not work properly in men who have previously tried TRT.

Starting next week I will be taking 25mg of Testo and 100mg of Deca. I'm a super-responder, I want to try to find the lowest effective dose. On Deca Only I had erection changes after 3 months without testosterone.

I haven't tested cream, gel or oral yet, which in theory would be the best for me due to the very short half-life. These are the options in case the base deca does not work.

Why do u think testosterone in forms that have a very short half life would be preferable for u?

what dosage of deca were u using when u did deca only?

and ya I don’t see many guys being able to use Clomid as a long term HRT solution

and a 4:1 ratio seems like a good place to start. That’s basically what I started with when I was using a deca base. I started with 200mg deca and 40mg of test

 

[JimGainz]

so at 60 mgs per week (nand) we/I should be good?

I would not be concerned at a that dose nor would I expect any lipid change

 

[JimGainz]

Why do u think testosterone in forms that have a very short half life would be preferable for u?

what dosage of deca were u using when u did deca only?

and ya I don’t see many guys being able to use Clomid as a long term HRT solution

and a 4:1 ratio seems like a good place to start. That’s basically what I started with when I was using a deca base. I started with 200mg deca and 40mg of test

That’s pretty consistent with my experience not only with deca but when I used to do Sarms - it only takes a little bit of Test to keep things normal. I actually prefer keeping Test on the low side and letting the anabolic compounds do the heavy lifting. I found it is easier to control HCT That way.